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Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465185
03/12/18 01:26 PM
03/12/18 01:26 PM
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Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline
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I've always taken a thermostat and "gutted" it and use it that way. I use a Moroso Electic motor with a alum water pump though.

Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465202
03/12/18 02:17 PM
03/12/18 02:17 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Verify your temp gauge too. Wouldn't be the first time that 205 indicated was 190 actual.

Kevin

Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465208
03/12/18 02:25 PM
03/12/18 02:25 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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I have fixed a lot of cooling problems just by getting more air through the radiator. Wen you say "fully sealed" I assume you mean there is some type of shroud causing air to be pulled through 100% of the core. And that the fans are of sufficient size and CFM rating. I would take the restriction out and try it as well.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465220
03/12/18 02:39 PM
03/12/18 02:39 PM
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State of confusion
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With an elec. water pump I run a gutted t-stat and no issues........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465275
03/12/18 04:27 PM
03/12/18 04:27 PM
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IL
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FWIW I had an expensive set of twin fans with a full shroud around them and the car would always peg the gauge if caught in traffic. Put a stock clutch 7 blade fan on with no shroud at all (cuz I didn't have one to fit the rad) and it's tons better. Still need to find a shroud that fits to finish it.


70 Sport Fury
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Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465378
03/12/18 08:02 PM
03/12/18 08:02 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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Last one I did I used 2 Spals with a full shroud but it was an aftermarket aluminum rad. They move a lot of air. Went from cooking itself to can't get it hot. Belt driven pump, no stat or restriction.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: Cab_Burge] #2465404
03/12/18 09:02 PM
03/12/18 09:02 PM
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Left Coast
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
Originally Posted By ozymaxwedge
Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
Take the washer out. you do not want less flow, you want more. Putting a washer in the coolant flow is like putting a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator with a 6" hole cut in it.


But a thermostat reduces the flow as well


A thermostat is not designed to make it run cooler, it is designed to make it run hotter than it would without one.

I've seen just the opposite in the Mohave desert in SO CA, cars with no thermostats ran hotter in the summer than they did with one in it shock both 160 and 180 F made the cars run under 220 F when they where running hotter than that with no stat before trying one confused
The consensus was the coolant wasn't spending enough time in the radiators to allow heat transfer into the outside hot air shruggy
How where the Winternationals and Pomona ? PM me on this thumbs


No not you Cab. That has been debunked for years. In a closed system more coolant flow is better. The radiator size, material of construction and fan rating are the only determiners of cooling system capacity. Like has been posted a thermostat is to insure quick warmups.

Re: Thermostat or... [Re: madscientist] #2465405
03/12/18 09:03 PM
03/12/18 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By JAKE68
This is all wrong. Most here don't understand how a cooling system works. A lot is trial and error, but some type of a restriction is needed for most systems. You have to slow down the flow so it stays in the radiator long enough to dissipate the heat. If it just flows threw it cant pull the heat out of the water. if the fans and water are efficient for the application then the radiator is not pulling enough heat out and you would need a more efficient core. I am not a big fan of electric water pumps and fans for for street use. I find that a good belt driven pump and clutch fan shroud and good rad is all that is needed for street.



Sorry, but you are giving out bad information. The last thing you want in a cooling system is a flow restriction. Keeping the coolant in the radiator longer also leaves the coolant in the block and heads longer, where it gets hotter. Now the radiator has to remove more heat from the coolant. Do we restrict it more, and let more heat into the coolant?


As said above, it's either an airflow issue or a coolant flow issue.


There is absolutely nothing else that need be said.

Re: Thermostat or... [Re: JAKE68] #2465439
03/12/18 09:44 PM
03/12/18 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted By JAKE68
This is all wrong. Most here don't understand how a cooling system works. A lot is trial and error, but some type of a restriction is needed for most systems. You have to slow down the flow so it stays in the radiator long enough to dissipate the heat. If it just flows threw it cant pull the heat out of the water. if the fans and water are efficient for the application then the radiator is not pulling enough heat out and you would need a more efficient core. I am not a big fan of electric water pumps and fans for for street use. I find that a good belt driven pump and clutch fan shroud and good rad is all that is needed for street.


so, why when a car starts to run hot, does revving the engine( speeding up coolant flow) help to bring the temp down, vs letting it idle( slowing down the coolant flow)?


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: sr4440] #2465520
03/12/18 11:08 PM
03/12/18 11:08 PM
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Well thanks guys but seems this is 3 ways, with thermostat, with centre cut out of it and totally open hahaha, guess I just give it a go.
We will be on it this arvo so Ill post tomorrow how we go.


Originally Posted By sr4440
I am a cause and effect type of guy. So it's a new build, let me ask a few questions. what's the total timing? do you have a vacuum advance on distributor? if you do is it hooked to ported vacuum or manifold vacuum.


Joe


Hi Joe, 35 total and locked up. Flame away smile


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: Twostick] #2465522
03/12/18 11:10 PM
03/12/18 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted By Twostick
Verify your temp gauge too. Wouldn't be the first time that 205 indicated was 190 actual.

Kevin


I will do Kev, thanks.


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: CMcAllister] #2465526
03/12/18 11:13 PM
03/12/18 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
Last one I did I used 2 Spals with a full shroud but it was an aftermarket aluminum rad. They move a lot of air. Went from cooking itself to can't get it hot. Belt driven pump, no stat or restriction.


I will be shocked if it works without restriction but it is what we will try first thumbs
PS, the fans are good and proven with 1000's of street machiners down here, they are from a late model ford.

Last edited by ozymaxwedge; 03/12/18 11:14 PM.

1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: Thumperdart] #2465530
03/12/18 11:17 PM
03/12/18 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Thumperdart
With an elec. water pump I run a gutted t-stat and no issues........


Hey Thumper, cant see the gutted stat working as the hole will not be much different to what i have.


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2465543
03/12/18 11:34 PM
03/12/18 11:34 PM
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Minn
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Um, Oxy, restriction is a negative in this problem. Its a widely held believe, but not true.

As I kinda mentioned, heat transfer has been studied in detail, right here in Minnesota (get it?) since 1887. I don't think they are wrong.

There is no doubt that people might put in a restriction and "fix" the problem. But it didn't defy physics nor the research. It did something else to change the outcome. Turbulence aids heat transfer, as in more flow. You can't have too much flow.

Re: Thermostat or... [Re: SportF] #2465545
03/12/18 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted By SportF
Um, Oxy, restriction is a negative in this problem. Its a widely held believe, but not true.

As I kinda mentioned, heat transfer has been studied in detail, right here in Minnesota (get it?) since 1887. I don't think they are wrong.

There is no doubt that people might put in a restriction and "fix" the problem. But it didn't defy physics nor the research. It did something else to change the outcome. Turbulence aids heat transfer, as in more flow. You can't have too much flow.


As I said I will try it with nothing in first, if it runs cooler then i'll be happy and amazed .


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2466091
03/13/18 11:05 PM
03/13/18 11:05 PM
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UPDATE, Took the restriction out, the washer tack welded to the gutted thermostat was probably closer to a 3/4 hole, anyway with nothing in there we headed down the road and there was no real change, we went a little farther traveling at 50-60mph and seen nearly 215 on the gauge.
Hot afternoon here though at 95 and with a new'ish engine I guess we are struggling.
Will try the 180 thermostat next .


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2466107
03/13/18 11:26 PM
03/13/18 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted By ozymaxwedge
UPDATE, Took the restriction out, the washer tack welded to the gutted thermostat was probably closer to a 3/4 hole, anyway with nothing in there we headed down the road and there was no real change, we went a little farther traveling at 50-60mph and seen nearly 215 on the gauge.
Hot afternoon here though at 95 and with a new'ish engine I guess we are struggling.
Will try the 180 thermostat next .



You have other issues. A thermostat won't fix it.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: madscientist] #2466113
03/13/18 11:36 PM
03/13/18 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted By madscientist

You have other issues. A thermostat won't fix it.


Well, the water pump is great, the fans are great, the radiator is good condition large Chrysler unit, the block is not filled and there is NO bubbles in the in the rad when running with the cap off.
Im lost.


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Thermostat or... [Re: madscientist] #2466114
03/13/18 11:38 PM
03/13/18 11:38 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By ozymaxwedge
UPDATE, Took the restriction out, the washer tack welded to the gutted thermostat was probably closer to a 3/4 hole, anyway with nothing in there we headed down the road and there was no real change, we went a little farther traveling at 50-60mph and seen nearly 215 on the gauge.
Hot afternoon here though at 95 and with a new'ish engine I guess we are struggling.
Will try the 180 thermostat next .



You have other issues. A thermostat won't fix it.




iagree

Re: Thermostat or... [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2466126
03/14/18 12:07 AM
03/14/18 12:07 AM
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Sydney,Australia
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Al ,
I had a mates 440 do the same thing . Man it got almost scary hot up to 225 or so .
Anyway .
I tried :
jack up rear of bonnet to help air flow , marginal gain
different waterpump and even pump housing , no change
thermostat and no thermostat , no change
checked the 16" puller electrical fan , nearly blew me over
I was about stumped .
Final resort put an old heavy Mopar fixed 6 blade mechanical fan on it , no shroud .
Could not get the motor to warm up !!
Now as he likes to rev and occasionally race it I put a thermostat in it and a flexlite 7 blade flex fan with a modified Camaro shroud.
Car now runs mid 180's unless a hot day in traffic .
Sometimes the electrical fans simply do not pull enough air no matter the advertising .
Low speed overheat = look at the fan
High speed overheat = look at airflow and coolant flow - radiator condition/size
Over 35MPH airflow should be enough that you don't need a fan .
That airflow can be through the radiator core as well as airflow out of engine bay .
A 3 or 4 core radiator can be as bad as a blocked core for airflow and heat dissipation .
With my sixpack bonnet if I run the air plate on the street the motor runs hotter
Good luck

Tex


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