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#2460748 - 03/04/18 02:19 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: amxautox]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 31224
Loc: Bend,OR USA
I don't sweat the petty stuff, ever up grin whistling devil
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2460751 - 03/04/18 03:19 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: Cab_Burge]
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96644
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
I'm just guessing like everyone else. laugh2

It's like a puzzle, enough people guess, someone will get it done/guess it.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2460763 - 03/04/18 06:49 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: amxautox]
70rrclone Offline
pro stock

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 1297
Loc: USA
I did a 4speed conversion on a 71 roadrunner years ago and had a very similar "buzzing" noise. turned out to be a bent drive shaft.

Shane

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#2460827 - 03/04/18 09:28 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
scatpacktom Offline
master

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 3062
Loc: Phila Pa
Its not good when your driveshaft turns into a guitar string


Edited by scatpacktom (03/04/18 09:28 AM)

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#2460852 - 03/04/18 10:09 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: scatpacktom]
moparpoolman Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 321
Loc: NE
here are some thoughts, I would double over all nuts and bolts in the general area, could possibly be trans mount cross member bolts.
I would definitely run it with the axle tubes on jackstands and wheel chocks in the front and back of the front tires, WITH THE CAR POINTING OUT OF THE GARAGE with nothing in front of it, to see if noise is there with no road vibration.
When the noise is present You might want to step on the clutch and turn the ignition off to see if noise is still there with engine off.
If you decide to take the speedo gear out you could probably jack the back of the car as high as you can get it to minimize loss of oil.
While in there you should be able to see / poke at the vent baffle tin that is in there to see if its loose.

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#2462437 - 03/07/18 03:06 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: moparpoolman]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Originally Posted By moparpoolman
here are some thoughts, I would double over all nuts and bolts in the general area, could possibly be trans mount cross member bolts.
I would definitely run it with the axle tubes on jackstands and wheel chocks in the front and back of the front tires, WITH THE CAR POINTING OUT OF THE GARAGE with nothing in front of it, to see if noise is there with no road vibration.
When the noise is present You might want to step on the clutch and turn the ignition off to see if noise is still there with engine off.
If you decide to take the speedo gear out you could probably jack the back of the car as high as you can get it to minimize loss of oil.
While in there you should be able to see / poke at the vent baffle tin that is in there to see if its loose.

We've done the jackstands under the rear axle bit already; I "drove" the car that way while a friend bravely got down and watched from the side, but the car didn't make the noise on those stands.
He reported that the driveshaft looked remarkably smooth as I wound up buzzing the car all the way up to 70mph.
Made me nervous, I can tell you, even though we used 4 jackstands under the axle.
It only occurred to me later afterwards that the noise only starts after the car has been driven over 5 miles or so, so I reckon things have to warm up somewhat before the racket appears.

I've also already done the speedo pinion removal rhing; it looked perfect when I took it out (and yes, considerable fluid is drained when you do this that has to be returned). Further, the speedometer itself is one of the smoothest operating ones I've ever seen in an old car; GPS confirms I've got the right speedo pinion, too.
I tried speedo pinion in, out, cable on, cable off.
Nope.

When weather permits, I'm going to get a local shops' owner to go for a ride with me so he can hear it. He specializes in Mopars and has restored several.
If he can't come up with anything, I reckon I'll be left with little recourse but to swap out the transmission. :-(

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#2462438 - 03/07/18 03:14 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96644
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Drive it 5 plus miles, then put it on the jack stands while warm and try it.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2464960 - 03/11/18 08:14 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
moparedtn
Unregistered


I have no update on this, sadly.
Weather went to crap and so did work demands, not to mention I wound up spending considerable time working on both the late-model hemi critters around here ('04 Ram and '12 Charger R/T).
Nothing other that what wound up being routine stuff, but have you ever changed the plugs in a hemi Ram? I've done it to this one since new, but this was the last time I'll ever do it - my rearranged and scarred innards won't take it anymore.
Cancer is a [censored], especially 3 times.
Someone else can do it next time.

Plan now is when the weather gets dry and warm enough to allow it, I'm going to take it by a local fellow who owns a repair shop to have a listen. He's a Mopar guy and has restored some in the past.
We'll see what he thinks in person.

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#2465021 - 03/11/18 10:13 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
71birdJ68 Offline
master

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 3955
Loc: Morristown Tn.
Who you taking it to, if I may ask?

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#2465029 - 03/11/18 10:22 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: 71birdJ68]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Originally Posted By 71birdJ68
Who you taking it to, if I may ask?

Chris Britton, but I'm not concrete on him touching the car. Did you have a suggestion?

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#2465039 - 03/11/18 10:41 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
71birdJ68 Offline
master

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 3955
Loc: Morristown Tn.
Two guys actually, Kenny Drinnon here in town, he does mechanical stuff that I can't, and Bob Mayers in Greenville, he owner Performance Auto, he does excellent engine work, and does stuff like this at home on the weekends.

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#2466785 - 03/15/18 06:21 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: 71birdJ68]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Originally Posted By 71birdJ68
Two guys actually, Kenny Drinnon here in town, he does mechanical stuff that I can't, and Bob Mayers in Greenville, he owner Performance Auto, he does excellent engine work, and does stuff like this at home on the weekends.

I appreciate the advice.
Mechanically, I can do pretty much anything so I don't typically let others work on my vehicles (short of factory recalls, of course).
Engine-wise, I'm pretty good to go right now.
I guess I'm saying I can fix whatever this is - but I need to figure out just exactly what it is.
Thanks!

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#2468799 - 03/19/18 08:10 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Well, an update of sorts...

Weather has been downright New England-ish the last couple weeks and we have still more to come apparently. Anyways, I seized on a few hour window of opportunity today and ran the car over to the shop.
Fellow took a ride with me, heard the noise clear as day - and looked at me and said "I've never heard that before in my life".
I thought --------
He went through all I had done and came up with the conclusion that, based on what he was feeling/hearing in person, it could only be a bearing.
Reckon I concur at this point - the noise is getting worse with more driving and the gear lube I drained the other day to remove the speedo pinion didn't look so great, adding credence to the bearing theory.

Thought process quickly moved from there, past trying to fix this one (which would no doubt turn into a full blown rebuild quickly) to ok, guess I'll have to fetch another transmission - and if I go there, it won't be just any transmission.
It best come from a known good source and either have a warranty (hello, Passon or Brewer's) - or come from someone I seriously trust to get it from.
Only going to do this once. Really don't have the patience - or yes, time - to fool around with this for long.

Oh, and the real shocker of the day - he doesn't want to do the swap, either. He tells me this as I make note of the '71 'Cuda on one lift and the full tube frame 'Cuda in another bay.
He says he only works on his own Mopars now, not anyone else's - and "modern" stuff for customers. Says something else could go wrong during the job and he doesn't want that grief.
Whatever...
I got a couple other places in town that didn't bat an eye telling me they're not afraid of the job and they shouldn't be.
The one literally within a mile of my place says "yeah, bring it by or I can come give it a nice ride on the rollback. $100."
As in he wants $100 to do the job. Even expects me to be there when he does to "keep him straight".
I think I have a new buddy. :-)

Ok....Brewer's or Passon?
I'd love to do an 18 spline, but my brand new clutch setup is for a 23 spline 11".

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#2468932 - 03/20/18 01:46 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 31224
Loc: Bend,OR USA
I learned to rebuild NP833 from a factory service manuals years ago when I drag raced a 1970 Baracuda with a Hemi and 4 speed in NHRA stock, you can to up work scope
The hardest part is changing the 4 sets of needle bearings in the cluster gear, all the other regular bearings, both of them, are pressed on and off shruggy
I use to remove the rear bearing snap ring and then use the 1st and 2nd gear weight to push that bearing off by dropping the rear of the output shaft onto a 4x4 block of wood, worked good, never hurt a part up
I would drive it back on with a steel sleeve or another used inner race and a brass drift and hammer hammer
I ended up buying a Snap On bearing remover collar to remove the front bearings off of the input shaft with a home made press, it works good on the rear axle bearings also wrench
BTW, I'm not sure that noise is a bearing noise, truthfully confused shruggy
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2468983 - 03/20/18 08:15 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: Cab_Burge]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
I learned to rebuild NP833 from a factory service manuals years ago when I drag raced a 1970 Baracuda with a Hemi and 4 speed in NHRA stock, you can to up work scope
The hardest part is changing the 4 sets of needle bearings in the cluster gear, all the other regular bearings, both of them, are pressed on and off shruggy
I use to remove the rear bearing snap ring and then use the 1st and 2nd gear weight to push that bearing off by dropping the rear of the output shaft onto a 4x4 block of wood, worked good, never hurt a part up
I would drive it back on with a steel sleeve or another used inner race and a brass drift and hammer hammer
I ended up buying a Snap On bearing remover collar to remove the front bearings off of the input shaft with a home made press, it works good on the rear axle bearings also wrench
BTW, I'm not sure that noise is a bearing noise, truthfully confused shruggy


I'm typically the same way, but not with transmissions. I've had them apart just to see how, but the interest ended right there. :-)
I don't have the patience (or the luxury of time) to rebuild this one, especially since it was a freebie to begin with and nothing special.

I'm not sure the noise is, well, anything specifically - I've just arrived at that conclusion by eliminating what it couldn't be - and since nobody has come up with anything else better, it'll get yanked and replaced, to be sorted out by someone else later maybe.

Question stands - who does the better rebuild, Brewer's or Passon?

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#2469015 - 03/20/18 09:32 AM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
moparpoolman Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 321
Loc: NE
Check out this thread, But if time is an issue and you're not ready to learn yet, I would send it to Brewers. They have a really nice packing crate(preformed foam & box that holds the Trans perfectly) to ship it back to you, maybe they could send you an empty crate/box so you can ship it to them the same way.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2455719/1.html


also these are in the above but here's easier access.

pliers
https://www.ebay.com/itm/141762732578

info
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/ams/how-to-a-833-4-speed-rebuild-pics.85/
info
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0403-rebuilding-the-a-833-four-speed-tranny/

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#2469155 - 03/20/18 12:57 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: moparpoolman]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Originally Posted By moparpoolman
Check out this thread, But if time is an issue and you're not ready to learn yet, I would send it to Brewers. They have a really nice packing crate(preformed foam & box that holds the Trans perfectly) to ship it back to you, maybe they could send you an empty crate/box so you can ship it to them the same way.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2455719/1.html
also these are in the above but here's easier access.
pliers
https://www.ebay.com/itm/141762732578
info
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/ams/how-to-a-833-4-speed-rebuild-pics.85/
info
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0403-rebuilding-the-a-833-four-speed-tranny/

I appreciate all the help, my friend, but...
Decision made, order placed.
Came down to a factor of time.
Brewer's is months behind in orders and won't have a unit available until the end of May (!).
Dan was honest in telling me that and I appreciate it.

Had a nice chat with Jamie at Passon just a bit ago. We spoke on several topics and he shed some light on things I had been wondering about in Mopar world in general.
Dude sounds tired but that's a good thing. He also sounds honest.
Three weeks on his time frame.
I placed an order with him on the spot, including a roller type input bearing to install in place of the bushing.
Wife is fussing. She'll get over it.

He recommended going back with the late 60's 23 spline unit since I still have that crossmember, even though he advised that the early 70's B/E unit I have now is no different mechanically, just on shifter mounting options and I have the modified crossmember for that as well, which I'll probably be selling.

Now the wait begins....

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#2469212 - 03/20/18 02:21 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: ]
JohnRR Offline
I Win

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 73560
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted By moparedtn


Question stands - who does the better rebuild, Brewer's or Passon?


I wouldn't hesitate to get one form either of them. If you want to go 18 spline you just need another disc.

But be warned a rebuilt isn't going to be cheap .
_________________________
running up my post count some more .

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#2469223 - 03/20/18 02:47 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: JohnRR]
71birdJ68 Offline
master

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 3955
Loc: Morristown Tn.
Did he ask what size hole is in the bell housing for the bearing retainer?

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#2469361 - 03/20/18 06:46 PM Re: Can anyone confidently identify this noise? A833 4 speed [Re: JohnRR]
moparedtn
Unregistered


Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By moparedtn

Question stands - who does the better rebuild, Brewer's or Passon?

I wouldn't hesitate to get one form either of them. If you want to go 18 spline you just need another disc.
But be warned a rebuilt isn't going to be cheap .

Thanks. Yes, my having a new 23 spline clutch setup (an expensive one at that) is why another 23 spline transmission was ordered....and yes, they aren't cheap.
Nonetheless, it's already bought.

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