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#2460530 - 03/03/18 01:06 PM Another Trickflow head question
frank Offline
top fuel

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2106
Loc: tucson az
Talking to my engine builder/machinist about which head he prefers for my build (512 on a 400 block, hyd roller, emphasis on torque) and he told me to get the bare castings. He said that he has been seeing not quality springs and valves on the assembled heads. He said he has seen this on the Ford heads as well as the Mopar. Seeing how an assembled head is only a $100 more than a bare head this may be true. My question is assembled or bare? The head I would get assembled is the 17802 head. Thanks

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#2460534 - 03/03/18 01:14 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11465
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Look at what TF warranties when you buy the assembled heads.

I've had 4 sets of the TF 240's here, and frankly I thought the parts seemed perfectly fine.

The only caveat for me is, for many solid flat tappet cams, I'm not in love with either of their spring choices.
One is a little lighter than I'd prefer, the other too stiff.

No way would I bother with bare castings.
That's just a way to add hundreds of dollars to the heads.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2460545 - 03/03/18 02:00 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
hosehead Offline
top fuel

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 1860
Loc: Pasadena, california
Sorry to slightly hijack, but what springs did you use for a solid cam? I just bought a .557 purple cam and am about to swap it in from a mild hydraulic. I have 240's as well.
_________________________
64 440/727 Plymouth savoy
70 340/4-speed dart swinger
73 318/727 d100 shorty

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#2460550 - 03/03/18 02:19 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11465
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Assuming you bought the version with the "smaller" springs......
For that cam with 1.5 rockers I would just adjust the installed height to get those springs to 145-150 on the seat(around 1.80-1.82 installed height).
The rate of that spring is fine for that type of cam if the seat pressure is set properly.

IMO, the 1.550 flat tappet/hyd roller spring they use is on the stiff side for most hot street or street/strip type applications.

In my original TF240 thread I'm pretty sure I posted the numbers for that spring....... It did not match the specs on the instruction sheet that came with the heads, but I seem to think it was pretty close to what TF shows for specs on their spring page.
It's been a while....... You'd have to do a search.

Depending on how high you want to turn the motor, what rockers, etc...... Something along the lines of a Comp 928 or Isky 8005a is what I'd be looking at, but both of those install shorter that how the 1.550 springs come set up from TF, so you'll have to play with shims/retainers/locks to get where you want.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2460562 - 03/03/18 02:49 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: fast68plymouth]
crackedback Offline


Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 1154
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Assuming you bought the version with the "smaller" springs......
For that cam with 1.5 rockers I would just adjust the installed height to get those springs to 145-150 on the seat(around 1.80-1.82 installed height).
The rate of that spring is fine for that type of cam if the seat pressure is set properly.

IMO, the 1.550 flat tappet/hyd roller spring they use is on the stiff side for most hot street or street/strip type applications.

In my original TF240 thread I'm pretty sure I posted the numbers for that spring....... It did not match the specs on the instruction sheet that came with the heads, but I seem to think it was pretty close to what TF shows for specs on their spring page.
It's been a while....... You'd have to do a search.

Depending on how high you want to turn the motor, what rockers, etc...... Something along the lines of a Comp 928 or Isky 8005a is what I'd be looking at, but both of those install shorter that how the 1.550 springs come set up from TF, so you'll have to play with shims/retainers/locks to get where you want.


Agreed, a .060 shim would bring the seat up to ~143 at 1.84 if my rusty math skills are correct. An .070 would be ~147 on seat.

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#2460569 - 03/03/18 03:35 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24940
Loc: Oregon
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.

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#2460573 - 03/03/18 03:40 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
hosehead Offline
top fuel

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 1860
Loc: Pasadena, california
Thanks guys. I appreciate the info!
_________________________
64 440/727 Plymouth savoy
70 340/4-speed dart swinger
73 318/727 d100 shorty

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#2460582 - 03/03/18 04:20 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: crackedback]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 31667
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By crackedback
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Assuming you bought the version with the "smaller" springs......
For that cam with 1.5 rockers I would just adjust the installed height to get those springs to 145-150 on the seat(around 1.80-1.82 installed height).
The rate of that spring is fine for that type of cam if the seat pressure is set properly.

IMO, the 1.550 flat tappet/hyd roller spring they use is on the stiff side for most hot street or street/strip type applications.

In my original TF240 thread I'm pretty sure I posted the numbers for that spring....... It did not match the specs on the instruction sheet that came with the heads, but I seem to think it was pretty close to what TF shows for specs on their spring page.
It's been a while....... You'd have to do a search.

Depending on how high you want to turn the motor, what rockers, etc...... Something along the lines of a Comp 928 or Isky 8005a is what I'd be looking at, but both of those install shorter that how the 1.550 springs come set up from TF, so you'll have to play with shims/retainers/locks to get where you want.


Agreed, a .060 shim would bring the seat up to ~143 at 1.84 if my rusty math skills are correct. An .070 would be ~147 on seat.




Never trust the valve spring specs tsk Always verify the actual pressures for your springs. especially on a race motor or hot street motor twocents Buy what tools you need or take the heads to a shop that has a valve spring tester to verify the pressures up
I've seen 30 lbs. different in the same set of heads installed at the same heights shruggy
I shoot for + or - 5 lbs. variance on the seats and 10 to 20 lbs. open and between .060 and .100 from coil bind on all the heads I set up up
Be thorough or don't worry about the minor details whistling grin stirthepot


Edited by Cab_Burge (03/03/18 04:23 PM)
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2460614 - 03/03/18 06:20 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: AndyF]
cudadoug Offline
master

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3075
Loc: Between a rock & a hard place
Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.


With the as supplied springs??

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#2460625 - 03/03/18 06:56 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: cudadoug]
hosehead Offline
top fuel

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 1860
Loc: Pasadena, california
Originally Posted By cudadoug
Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.


With the as supplied springs??


That's what I was wondering......
_________________________
64 440/727 Plymouth savoy
70 340/4-speed dart swinger
73 318/727 d100 shorty

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#2460635 - 03/03/18 07:32 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11465
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
The as supplied roller springs are pretty nice.

They would work just fine with the cam Andy used for those tests with 1.5 or 1.55 rockers.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2460641 - 03/03/18 07:47 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: frank]
crackedback Offline


Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 1154
Loc: CA
Have any of you seen pressure variations in this rate Pac spring sets mentioned here?

These aren't monster springs on the TF 240 heads.

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#2460644 - 03/03/18 07:55 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: cudadoug]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24940
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By cudadoug
Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running both 240 and 270 heads right out of the box on my 470 engines. 700+ hp from each engine without any issues. I have about 90 pulls on the 240 heads, 30 pulls on the 270 heads.


With the as supplied springs??


Yes, I have the Trick Flow springs and retainers on my 240 heads. The 270 heads switched over to K950 springs when I put the super aggressive cam in it. The roller cam springs with the Ti retainers are high quality parts. Should be fine for most bracket type roller cams.

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#2460689 - 03/03/18 10:07 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: AndyF]
Azzkikrcuda Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1651
Loc: North Dakota
I checked the smaller 1.460" O.D. dual spring with damper (TFS-16893) and all the springs had consistent pressures but were to light for my cam without a bunch of shims. They were inline with TF's posted specs. I used Comp 930-16 springs to get 145lbs pressure on the seat.
_________________________
The only Carbs I care about are under the hood!

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#2462393 - 03/06/18 10:38 PM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: Azzkikrcuda]
ccdave Offline
The Ultimate

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1767
Loc: Mopar Country, Mi
Buy the springs from PAC and the valves from who ever is your favorite manufacturer. You now know what you have up

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#2462485 - 03/07/18 08:35 AM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: ccdave]
B3RE Offline
mopar

Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 544
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By ccdave
Buy the springs from PAC and the valves from who ever is your favorite manufacturer. You now know what you have up


The springs are PAC, and the valves are Ferrea. Buying them separately only makes the head more expensive, unless they don't fit the application to begin with. And now you know!
_________________________
Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.

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#2462581 - 03/07/18 11:39 AM Re: Another Trickflow head question [Re: B3RE]
dogdays Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16270
Thanks for cutting through the guesswork and BS.

This is a typical Moparts question. It's my frustration. First you have the question based on suspicions or "I was told". Then the uneducated jump on with their own suspicions or third hand stories.
Somewhere in the middle of that the guys with real knowledge show up and try to get back to a fact-based answer. However, even after Fast and Andy and Cab and other pros answer the question, it comes back with more half-baked answers.

And, finally, what degree of smarts does one need to understand the phrase, "right out of the box"?

R.
(Grumpy Old Man)

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