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#2456653 - 02/24/18 11:04 AM FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor?
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24347
Loc: Texas
We will be installing an FiTech on my Father-in-Law's Li'l Red.

It has the original electronic ignition and distributor. Do you know what distributor is required for timing control?

yellow
_________________________
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - Build page -> https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi<-
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
1969 Dodge Dart Custom Sedan - Grandma Edition - 318/904
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp

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#2456697 - 02/24/18 12:09 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
3hundred Offline
master

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 4836
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Here's one example MSD 8534 The FI requires an electrically clean signal. You can probably find something similar and cheaper to the MSD if needed.

Robert

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#2456710 - 02/24/18 12:27 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: 3hundred]
UCUDANT Offline
Troll Hunter

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 7833
Loc: New Mexico
I use an MSD, you just perform a minor disassembly to lock it down. You can then set base where you need it and program the unit with the curve and max timing settings you want.

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#2456747 - 02/24/18 01:42 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: UCUDANT]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24347
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By UCUDANT
I use an MSD, you just perform a minor disassembly to lock it down. You can then set base where you need it and program the unit with the curve and max timing settings you want.


This may be elementary, but how is the FiTech handling timing with a locked out distributor? Is the spark jumping that far within the cap?

If I set my base timing on a locked distributor at 15° and want 35° at cruise, that's 20° the spark has to jump from the rotor to the plug port on the dist cap, because the rotor is no longer moving.

Do you have a p/n for the MSD distributor?
_________________________
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - Build page -> https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi<-
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
1969 Dodge Dart Custom Sedan - Grandma Edition - 318/904
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp

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#2456813 - 02/24/18 02:59 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24508
Loc: Oregon
You might be able to use the Mopar distributor but you would need to lock it out. If you can find a lean burn distributor in good shape you could use it.

Typically you want to install the distributor at 30 or 35 degrees and lock it down. Then the computer handles it from there. Starting and idle advance might be in the 15 to 20 range while high vacuum advance is 40 or 45 degrees. So 30 degrees would be half way between 15 and 45 so you're splitting the difference for the rotor.

Best thing to do is read the instructions and then read them again a few more times. The various EFI systems all handle distributors a little differently but in general they just need a crank signal to work.

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#2456864 - 02/24/18 04:04 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
feets Offline
Senior Management

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 27170
Loc: Irving, TX
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
If I set my base timing on a locked distributor at 15° and want 35° at cruise, that's 20° the spark has to jump from the rotor to the plug port on the dist cap, because the rotor is no longer moving.



Remember that you're setting timing by the crank and the cam runs at 1/2 crank speed.

The spark would have to jump half the timing lead. Your 20* at the crank becomes 10* in the distributor.

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#2456871 - 02/24/18 04:09 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
68KillerBee Offline


Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 6443
Loc: Missouri
Goody, join fitech owners group on facebook. Decent amount of mopar guys on there that can help. As these mopars are trickier when using original equipment.
_________________________

Families rides: 68 Super Bee, 68 GTX 'vert, 73 Charger, (2) 2010 Challenger r/t's. All 3 pedal equipped. 70 AAR. 71 b'cuda

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#2456997 - 02/24/18 07:59 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: 68KillerBee]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24347
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By feets
Remember that you're setting timing by the crank and the cam runs at 1/2 crank speed.

The spark would have to jump half the timing lead. Your 20* at the crank becomes 10* in the distributor.


Good point, that is what I was overlooking!

Originally Posted By 68KillerBee
Goody, join fitech owners group on facebook. Decent amount of mopar guys on there that can help. As these mopars are trickier when using original equipment.


I am on there actually, but just lurking. It seems like a lot of complaining or people that haven't got a clue how an engine runs. grin
_________________________
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - Build page -> https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi<-
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
1969 Dodge Dart Custom Sedan - Grandma Edition - 318/904
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp

Top
#2457174 - 02/25/18 04:04 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
Twostick Offline
master

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 4981
Loc: Downtown Roebuck Ont
You should really use a distributor that you can adjust the rotor phasing on. Locking the timing at 36 is all well and good but the ECM has to pull timing out to make the curve and when the engine is at speed the time it takes the ECM to calculate this can use up 10 degrees of rotation. This can put the rotor too far from it's intended tower.

I used an MSD billet with a Cap a Dapt and an adjustable rotor.

A crank trigger can eliminate that plus it will supply a clean tach signal which is critical. It can also allow a coil near plug arrangement if the Fitech ECM will support it.

Kevin

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#2457187 - 02/25/18 05:34 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: Twostick]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24347
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By Twostick
You should really use a distributor that you can adjust the rotor phasing on. Locking the timing at 36 is all well and good but the ECM has to pull timing out to make the curve and when the engine is at speed the time it takes the ECM to calculate this can use up 10 degrees of rotation. This can put the rotor too far from it's intended tower.

I used an MSD billet with a Cap a Dapt and an adjustable rotor.

A crank trigger can eliminate that plus it will supply a clean tach signal which is critical. It can also allow a coil near plug arrangement if the Fitech ECM will support it.

Kevin


Do you have a part number for your MSD parts?

I'm questioning if timing control is even worth it with an FiTech.


  • Overall it still seems like pretty crude control and is overcomplicating something that a distributor does just fine [for the application].
  • Our goal is simply better drivability in any condition with very long road trips in mind.
  • If something hiccups with the FiTech ignition control, we are hosed.
  • Whereas a stock ignition ecu is cheap, readily available and easy to change.


Thoughts?
_________________________
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - Build page -> https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi<-
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
1969 Dodge Dart Custom Sedan - Grandma Edition - 318/904
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp

Top
#2457191 - 02/25/18 07:04 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
Nukechargerboy Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 796
Loc: Ossining, New York
I have the meanstreet efi, it doesn't have timing control so I can't help other than to make a suggestion. You have to look at the directions, but maybe you can run it without timing control. Just use it for the efi, my car runs fine with the Chrysler orange box setup. I just had to put a diode between the connectors for the ballast resister and she runs.

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#2457198 - 02/25/18 07:33 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
UCUDANT Offline
Troll Hunter

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 7833
Loc: New Mexico
Timing control is nice. I can from the drivers seat bump change idle RPM, or say max timing at the track

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#2457206 - 02/25/18 08:11 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: UCUDANT]
BDW Offline
master

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 3502
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By UCUDANT
Timing control is nice. I can from the drivers seat bump change idle RPM, or say max timing at the track


I tried to read through the Facebook stuff and couldn't make sense of it.
I'm not using the timing control, just the Mopar performance ignition I already had.
What changes/parts did you make for timing control?

I saw so many posts saying it didn't work with FiTech.

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#2457220 - 02/25/18 08:47 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: BDW]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24347
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By cnxt
Originally Posted By UCUDANT
Timing control is nice. I can from the drivers seat bump change idle RPM, or say max timing at the track


I tried to read through the Facebook stuff and couldn't make sense of it.
I'm not using the timing control, just the Mopar performance ignition I already had.
What changes/parts did you make for timing control?

I saw so many posts saying it didn't work with FiTech.


Do you have the FiTech that supports timing? it's a little more expensive than the base unit.
_________________________
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - Build page -> https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi<-
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
1969 Dodge Dart Custom Sedan - Grandma Edition - 318/904
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp

Top
#2457276 - 02/25/18 10:24 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
BDW Offline
master

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 3502
Loc: Florida
Yes , I have the 600hp system.
If you try to read through Facebook or the 20+ thread on Abodies, it's a mixture of success or failure. Some talk about buying special wiring because of the poor noise immunity of the FiTech input.

Maybe I have ADD, just didn't see a clear cut solution.

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#2457303 - 02/25/18 11:17 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: BDW]
Twostick Offline
master

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 4981
Loc: Downtown Roebuck Ont
Originally Posted By cnxt
Yes , I have the 600hp system.
If you try to read through Facebook or the 20+ thread on Abodies, it's a mixture of success or failure. Some talk about buying special wiring because of the poor noise immunity of the FiTech input.

Maybe I have ADD, just didn't see a clear cut solution.


ANY system that uses the distributor pickup for a tach signal is going to have serious electronic noise issues. The inside of a distributor cap is basically a lightning factory. I had to run a shielded coaxial cable on mine spliced in as close to the pickup as possible to get a usable signal.

Kevin

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#2457308 - 02/25/18 11:27 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
Twostick Offline
master

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 4981
Loc: Downtown Roebuck Ont
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By Twostick
You should really use a distributor that you can adjust the rotor phasing on. Locking the timing at 36 is all well and good but the ECM has to pull timing out to make the curve and when the engine is at speed the time it takes the ECM to calculate this can use up 10 degrees of rotation. This can put the rotor too far from it's intended tower.

I used an MSD billet with a Cap a Dapt and an adjustable rotor.

A crank trigger can eliminate that plus it will supply a clean tach signal which is critical. It can also allow a coil near plug arrangement if the Fitech ECM will support it.

Kevin


Do you have a part number for your MSD parts?

I'm questioning if timing control is even worth it with an FiTech.


  • Overall it still seems like pretty crude control and is overcomplicating something that a distributor does just fine [for the application].
  • Our goal is simply better drivability in any condition with very long road trips in mind.
  • If something hiccups with the FiTech ignition control, we are hosed.
  • Whereas a stock ignition ecu is cheap, readily available and easy to change.


Thoughts?


I don't recall the MSD part# but it's probably older than you are. laugh2

It used the old GM points style distributor cap with the window in the side. If you Google MSD " Cap-a-Dapt " and adjustable rotor, you should turn up some part numbers.

Kevin

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#2457314 - 02/25/18 11:42 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
moparborn Offline
super stock

Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 708
Loc: Pa. U.S.A.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TSP-Mopar-Pro-Series-Pro-Billet-Distributor.
This is the distributor my buddy and I are using and it seems to work good.

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#2457346 - 02/25/18 12:40 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
BDW Offline
master

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 3502
Loc: Florida
So do you disable the vacuum advance too?
Or just lock out the distributor mechanical advance?

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#2457356 - 02/25/18 01:12 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
Andrewh Offline
master

Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 7825
no fi tech, but ms II and I have full spark control previous controler as well.

Since I am not about getting every hp out of my car but rather start and drive, I find I don't use it much if at all beyond the inital getting it to run.
in fact, if I didn't need it for the position sensor, I would probably put in the unilite I have on the shelf and just deal with fuel control.

but that is just me.

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#2461349 - 03/05/18 03:49 AM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
451Mopar Offline
master

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 4987
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Just "test" installed the FiTech on the Charger with the 500" 400 "B" based stroker. Seems like it might work, even though I have very low vacuum.
First step was running in TACH mode with the existing ignition setup and getting the fuel part working.
Part 2 was installing a lean burn dist and trying that out.
Got it to run (on the "start" pickup), but I think the rotor phasing is off.
After re-reading the instructions, it looks like the "run" pickup will work?
The two pickups are phased about 1/2 terminal apart.
Not sure how changing the reluctor position would change the rotor phasing?

I ordered an extra cap, so I can cut it to see the rotor phasing.

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#2472101 - 03/25/18 11:24 PM Re: FiTech w/timing control on LA 360 - What distributor? [Re: 451Mopar]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24347
Loc: Texas
We're now in process using. TSP distributor is locked out and ready to go in.


Attachments
06849363-C3BC-4B2A-9159-62CA2A31D93C-COLLAGE.jpg


_________________________
1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - Build page -> https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi<-
1976 Dodge Warlock - "Her Truck" - 360/727 2wd
1969 Dodge Dart Custom Sedan - Grandma Edition - 318/904
2016 Subaru WRX - E30 Tune ~320whp

Top
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