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#2454415 - 02/20/18 01:50 AM Guess my Dyno numbers
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
511 low deck, Indy 440-1's unported but bowl blended and port matched. Comp flat tappet intake Duration @.050: 265
Camshaft - Exhaust Duration @.050: 270
Camshaft - Intake Lift at Valve: 585
Camshaft - Exhaust Lift at Valve: 592
Lobe Separation: 110
10.5 compression pump gas
Indy 4500 manifold and 1050 carb.
Bob Mazz 2" 2-1/8" step headers
Hope to be on the dyno this weekend.


Edited by 10sec440 (02/20/18 05:37 PM)
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2454420 - 02/20/18 02:06 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
qwkmopardan Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 851
Loc: Affton MO
725HP---625 TQ

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#2454574 - 02/20/18 12:04 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: qwkmopardan]
6PKRTSE Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3346
Loc: Motor City
690 hp / 595 tq
_________________________
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 CHALLENGER R/T, 25.5 Cert, Big Inch Alum 16 plug HEMI twin turbo.
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner.
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4.
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

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#2454575 - 02/20/18 12:08 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
johnnycuda Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 710
Loc: lancaster,california
675hp / 560tq
_________________________
1970 'Cuda,Lime Light,499 Indy S/R's 10.70's @125,street driven ALOT!
1966 Barracuda 360,now a 5spd,Hemi Orange,Hot Rod Air,
New daily driver-2003 Ram 2500 Cummins 5.9
2000 Dodge Ram,360 2wd.
New project-'69 Valiant 2-dr, budget sleeper!

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#2454576 - 02/20/18 12:09 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Triple Threat Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6193
Loc: Renton Washington
Not enough smile
_________________________
-Dustin
392" G3 Hemi
1.37, 6.17@111, 9.74@136.9

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#2454582 - 02/20/18 12:22 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Iowan Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 764
Loc: Lost in Time
745hp 640tq, just saw one come off the dyno it made 20 hp more with vac. pump....
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Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat, the older I get the better I was"


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#2454585 - 02/20/18 12:24 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1692
Loc: central texas
are those cam specs correct? 294 and 305* @ .050" and only 585 lift??

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#2454590 - 02/20/18 12:30 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
RustyM Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 215
Loc: Texas
655 hp, 690 tq

how far are you going to turn it?



Edited by RustyM (02/20/18 12:31 PM)

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#2454591 - 02/20/18 12:32 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: krautrock]
steve660 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 267
Loc: Lowes
According to Wallace racing calculator, 3400lbs @ 130 MPH is 575hp....

Sorry, didnt notice the "440" in signature..


Edited by steve660 (02/20/18 05:01 PM)
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#2454607 - 02/20/18 12:50 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: krautrock]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8241
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Originally Posted By krautrock
are those cam specs correct? 294 and 305* @ .050" and only 585 lift??
my thoughts also. I am thinking those must be at .020, or .006, which will alter the results a bit😀
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#2454723 - 02/20/18 04:14 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
RobR Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2881
Loc: Canada
Cam specs are wrong for the lift..I'd guess something like 275@50 would be more in line..IMO
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#2454724 - 02/20/18 04:18 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
Sorry, typo it was late. 265 and 270 @ .050
I intend to spin it to 6500-7000.
Thanks.
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2454827 - 02/20/18 07:59 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24005
Loc: Oregon
Probably around 625 hp with those parts. Could easily be more with proper head work, ported intake and a roller cam. You have another 100 hp of potential in that basic combo.

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#2454862 - 02/20/18 08:56 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
merpar Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 67
Loc: Nevada
Unported heads, I would guess 620 hp and about the same in torque. Like Andy said at least 100hp potential with roller cam plus head and intake porting.

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#2454892 - 02/20/18 10:13 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
That was part of my plan, make 620-650 now and then step it up at a later date.
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2454898 - 02/20/18 10:17 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30788
Loc: Bend,OR USA
I'll be really surprised if it doesn't make north of 650 HP and 620 Ft lb. of torque with those parts twocents
What brand engine dyno and how much elevation, humidity and barometric pressure on the dyno are you expecting work
Good luck thumbs
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2454929 - 02/20/18 11:42 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
csk Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 1017
Loc: KATY TEXAS
585 hp

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#2454932 - 02/21/18 12:01 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: csk]
ozymaxwedge Offline
super stock

Registered: 09/04/15
Posts: 945
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By csk
585 hp


Geez, your talking rear wheel yeah ? Im at 600 RWHP with ported SR's, surely this combo should be high 600's + at the flywheel ?

680 FWHP
_________________________
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda

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#2454958 - 02/21/18 01:35 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: ozymaxwedge]
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1856
Loc: Cotati, CA
My 12.9 493 with ported Edelbrock heads, .660 roller and flowed BG dom. on a Team G made right at 650 hp and torque. Peak torque was right at 5,800 so I would shift the 3 speed at 6,200 which was the quickest the car went. Shifting any higher would slow it down some. I would imagine yours should make a little less and 625 seems about right. Some guys on here go pretty quick with large, solid cams. I would just put a roller in it now if it were mine.

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#2455038 - 02/21/18 09:41 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Von Offline
master

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 3698
Loc: NE Oklahoma
Whose dyno?? On a few dynos quoted on here, I'm sure it would show over 800...

I'll wager...132 to 133 mph
_________________________
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

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#2455059 - 02/21/18 10:33 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
rb446 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/15
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
I can't see it making much more than 600fwhp, not enough head/small cam for them cubes to make mid to upper 600's in my opnion.

My mates 440 Dart with 12.7:1, Eddy std port MCH 325cfm heads, DC.590 solid purple cam, 1050 Dom., Victor int...just managed to hit the 600fwhp mark according to best mph/weight. and that cam was done at 6600rpm, car would slow if he shifted it over 6400 through the gears.
_________________________
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987

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#2455074 - 02/21/18 10:56 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10755
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
The latest generation 440-1's come with CNC'd chambers, and with the right valve job and bowl work can flow quite well.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2455087 - 02/21/18 11:27 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Von]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10582
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Von
Whose dyno?? On a few dynos quoted on here, I'm sure it would show over 800...

iagree LOL
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 446" w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'01 Ram 2500 QCSB 4x4 Cummins...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2455089 - 02/21/18 11:35 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: an8sec70cuda]
pittsburghracer Online   work
Slowride

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 12806
Loc: PA.
I was thinking more like 1000 horsepower whistling
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.89 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
6.001@113.27mph
9.44@138.23

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2455107 - 02/21/18 12:09 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: fast68plymouth]
csk Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 1017
Loc: KATY TEXAS
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
The latest generation 440-1's come with CNC'd chambers, and with the right valve job and bowl work can flow quite well.


Do you have any of those #'s smile , I based my guess on older none ported 440-1's & the low lift cam.

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#2455122 - 02/21/18 12:41 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10755
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
For sure the low-ish lift of the cam(for this combo) doesn't play into the -1's attributes, especially earlier ones.

The last set I did(with cnc'd chambers) flowed 297@.600 ootb, and about 340@.600 after proper prep.

I feel like the 10.5cr is a bit low for the basic combo as well.

If the heads were similar to the last ones I did, and I had it on our dyno here, I'd be looking to be in the 650+ range........ It is a 511 after all.
I'd have used 1.6 rockers for a cam like that in this type of build.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2455125 - 02/21/18 12:53 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: fast68plymouth]
csk Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 1017
Loc: KATY TEXAS
Thanks Dwayne for your valuable input !!!

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#2455134 - 02/21/18 01:05 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: an8sec70cuda]
6PKRTSE Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3346
Loc: Motor City
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By Von
Whose dyno?? On a few dynos quoted on here, I'm sure it would show over 800...

iagree LOL


We have (42) SAE calibrated engine dyno's. Our Dyno's have to be calibrated because of all of the OEM prototype developement & production work we do so our Dyno's are usually about 15% less than the average Joe. Believe me, you walk into most single dyno engine shops & say you want to make approx 800 HP they can make it make the number pretty easily when it is probably making more like 680ish HP.
_________________________
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 CHALLENGER R/T, 25.5 Cert, Big Inch Alum 16 plug HEMI twin turbo.
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner.
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4.
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

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#2455147 - 02/21/18 01:24 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Al_Alguire Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16704
Loc: Rockville MD & Las Vegas
Cant see that combo being anything much over 600hp for sure of if it even got there. But as been pointed out dynos are dynos and not all of them spit out the most accurate of results for sure. Id say at Mountain View that combo would struggle to see 575, that's where I have my most recent dyno experience.
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#2455165 - 02/21/18 02:07 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
rb446 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/15
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
I guess whatever numbers that dyno throws out, whats more important is knowing where the power is being made with the combo and then perhaps some gearing changes may/may not be in order.

As a guide, with an on track 620fwhp/3400lbs the ticket would look something like this>
60 Foot E.T. : 1.43
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.48
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 104.88
1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.27
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 130
with it in the teens? if it 60's better than shown above.
according to my calcs.


Edited by rb446 (02/21/18 02:12 PM)
_________________________
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987

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#2455175 - 02/21/18 02:30 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10755
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Since its a Comp cam, I'd be interested to know what the lobe numbers are....... And I assume you're running 1.5 rockers??
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2455388 - 02/21/18 09:59 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Sport440 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6555
Loc: Canton, Ohio
Originally Posted By 10sec440
Sorry, typo it was late. 265 and 270 @ .050
I intend to spin it to 6500-7000.
Thanks.


Be lucky to break 600 hp, probably more like 575,???

That cam @ 265 intake is smaller them the MP 590 @ 271 @ .05 you were using. But with the new engine you will be making a lot of torque. To make HP you need to spin them a bit. Your not going to be able to spin that new engine very high in its hp band with that small of cam. It will be done by 6000 rpm. Typical 500" motors with your comp can hit around 600 HP with the mp 590, your using a even Smaller cam.

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#2455390 - 02/21/18 10:04 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
ozymaxwedge Offline
super stock

Registered: 09/04/15
Posts: 945
Loc: Australia
New cam smile
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1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda

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#2455512 - 02/22/18 07:55 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8241
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
I am guessing your goal might be 10.01 et?
Just a thought, has anyone had good luck with 1.7 ratio rockers and beehive springs? That would get you .630 + net lift on the intakes, and raise the net lift everywhere, which i would think should be well worth the trouble, and cheap power to boot.


Edited by gregsdart (02/22/18 07:56 AM)
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#2455585 - 02/22/18 10:46 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10755
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
I doubt the power increase from a ratio swap would corolate to the $1100 price tag.

If I had $1100 to throw at it, it would be on a roller cam, lifters, and springs.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2458435 - 02/27/18 12:42 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: fast68plymouth]
416challenger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 345
Loc: New Braunfels, TX
10sec440- Were you able to get it on the dyno? Just curious of the outcome.

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#2458469 - 02/27/18 02:02 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10755
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
With as widely varying as the guesses were.......someone should have been close.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2458505 - 02/27/18 03:06 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: fast68plymouth]
6PKRTSE Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3346
Loc: Motor City
We always do this at work with alot of the race engines we build. Sometimes it's $1.00 per person per guess, sometimes $5.00 per guess. Winner gets the pot. We did this on my Hemi when we dyno'd it. So many were so close but it did make more than everyone was expecting.
_________________________
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 CHALLENGER R/T, 25.5 Cert, Big Inch Alum 16 plug HEMI twin turbo.
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner.
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4.
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

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#2458779 - 02/28/18 09:09 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
Here is a engine we just did. Its a 496 with the same cam and compression on pump gas. It has Max Wedge Port SR Heads as received from Indy with NO porting, just our valve job. It has a 440-2 Intake and a 950 Quick Fuel.

With the 440-1 Heads and the 400-3 Intake with a 4500 Carb it will make more than this with out a doubt.


Attachments
27657089_1637485802973763_9145157581716391286_n.jpg



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#2458910 - 02/28/18 12:14 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
Why so lean...........
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72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`.....Check me out on FB for stories, videos and lots of carb pics..........760-900-3895........

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#2458928 - 02/28/18 12:51 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Thumperdart]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Why so lean...........

That's the first thing I noticed, too. scope

Chuck: Is that an out-of-the-box Q-Series 950, by chance?
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#2458966 - 02/28/18 02:13 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
Your right, the data says its lean. As nice as it is to be overloaded with data, sometimes you have to do what the engine wants. Plugs looked perfect as well as the exhaust ports. It was a Q950 Stock jetting was way to rich, I would have liked to try a 1050 but didn't have any on hand. This is for a 100% street car 68 Road Runner 4 Speed, it should be a lot of fun

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#2458978 - 02/28/18 02:35 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
Anytime a hot/bigger motor runs a 4150 type carb they CAN go very rich due to the added velocity that larger cubes create and are more sensitive to tune from my experience. The RIGHT Dommy will smooth that right out.......... beer


Edited by Thumperdart (02/28/18 02:38 PM)
_________________________
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`.....Check me out on FB for stories, videos and lots of carb pics..........760-900-3895........

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#2459002 - 02/28/18 03:22 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24005
Loc: Oregon
The O2 sensor information on a dyno can often be wrong. A small air leak into the exhaust system will make everything look lean even if the engine is running just fine.

I also learned the hard way that O2 sensor data can be messed up electronically. It is a small digital signal and there are lots of ways to mess up small digital signals.

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#2459029 - 02/28/18 04:30 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Thumperdart]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30788
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Why so lean...........

The AFR read out says lean, the BSFC says a little fat up high.
Test,test and test some more until it goes slower or looses power, correct work
Maybe it needs a slightly bigger high speed bleeds work
I agree on a bigger CFM carb. to help eliminate the manifold vacuum increasing restricting the air flow into the motor work


Edited by Cab_Burge (02/28/18 04:35 PM)
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Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2459052 - 02/28/18 05:27 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Cab_Burge]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
This has been debated / argued before, but you cannot tune a carb by BSFC #s. BSFC doesn't tell anything about the air-fuel ratio. It's simply a measure of efficiency of the amount of fuel used to make the power recorded.

EDIT: LINK to article on BSFC vs Air-Fuel Ratio...


Edited by BradH (02/28/18 06:02 PM)
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#2459067 - 02/28/18 06:06 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
... It was a Q950 Stock jetting was way to rich...

How much did you have to lean it out from the standard tune? I'm a little surprised you said it was too rich from what I recall the out-of-the-box settings are.
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#2459085 - 02/28/18 06:56 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Cab_Burge]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Why so lean...........

The AFR read out says lean, the BSFC says a little fat up high.
Test,test and test some more until it goes slower or looses power, correct work
Maybe it needs a slightly bigger high speed bleeds work
I agree on a bigger CFM carb. to help eliminate the manifold vacuum increasing restricting the air flow into the motor work


I agree!

Of course the customer will add a air cleaner and full exhaust and that will change things to so no reason to chase a couple HP onthe dyno and like most guys he will do a little tuning once it's in the car. Reliability and driveability are more important.

Just for example, a A/SA Max Wedge on our dyno will make 595 hp and run 10.20 at 3400lbs. So how fast would you think a 3600 lb 4 speed Road Runner would go ?

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#2459091 - 02/28/18 07:06 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: BradH]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
... It was a Q950 Stock jetting was way to rich...

How much did you have to lean it out from the standard tune? I'm a little surprised you said it was too rich from what I recall the out-of-the-box settings are.


I believe it was 4 front and rear

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#2459104 - 02/28/18 07:32 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
PorkyPig Offline
mopar

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 567
Loc: home in bed
Quote:


Just for example, a A/SA Max Wedge on our dyno will make 595 hp and run 10.20 at 3400lbs. So how fast would you think a 3600 lb 4 speed Road Runner would go ?

This should be a new thread all by itself!
popcorn

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#2459108 - 02/28/18 07:42 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: PorkyPig]
Uncle Barry Offline
super stock

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1025
Loc: Big Western Pencilveinya
Originally Posted By PorkyPig
Quote:


Just for example, a A/SA Max Wedge on our dyno will make 595 hp and run 10.20 at 3400lbs. So how fast would you think a 3600 lb 4 speed Road Runner would go ?

This should be a new thread all by itself!
popcorn
iagree I know some 4 speed b bodys that have "650" car show horsepower and probably go bottom 13s or maybe 12s in good air laugh2 boogie
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#2459156 - 02/28/18 08:48 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
tex013 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1721
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
... It was a Q950 Stock jetting was way to rich...

How much did you have to lean it out from the standard tune? I'm a little surprised you said it was too rich from what I recall the out-of-the-box settings are.


I believe it was 4 front and rear


I am not surprised now by this . I had to pull 4 or 5 jets out of the front and maybe 2 rear when I went from 440ci to 505ci. Motor just works the carb harder especially if carburation is a little undersized .

Tex

PS : my 505 with a hair more comp and bit more cam makes 600-620 FWHP . With a 4150 carb , mufflers and exhaust to diff . I am not sure this one will go too much more .


Edited by tex013 (02/28/18 08:53 PM)
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#2459298 - 03/01/18 07:46 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Thumperdart]
DoubleD Online   content
top fuel

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1863
Loc: NE Ohio
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Why so lean...........


Because lean is Mean................!

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#2459441 - 03/01/18 12:55 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: tex013]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By tex013
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
... It was a Q950 Stock jetting was way to rich...

How much did you have to lean it out from the standard tune? I'm a little surprised you said it was too rich from what I recall the out-of-the-box settings are.


I believe it was 4 front and rear


I am not surprised now by this . I had to pull 4 or 5 jets out of the front and maybe 2 rear when I went from 440ci to 505ci. Motor just works the carb harder especially if carburation is a little undersized .

Makes sense, in that I'd suspect that whomever is in charge of the calibration for those carbs probably isn't told the intended application is 500 cubes making 600++ HP. Yeah, the bigger engine would create more signal than the carb was originally tuned for, whereas a too-big carb would need to be richer to crutch the lack of signal.
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#2459443 - 03/01/18 01:00 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: PorkyPig]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By PorkyPig
Quote:


Just for example, a A/SA Max Wedge on our dyno will make 595 hp and run 10.20 at 3400lbs. So how fast would you think a 3600 lb 4 speed Road Runner would go ?

This should be a new thread all by itself!
popcorn

You're right. That way I can ask Chuck more questions and not derail this thread, as well as add my own "before" data and "after" predictions based on my latest engine dyno results. wink
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#2459444 - 03/01/18 01:03 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: DoubleD]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
Originally Posted By DoubleD
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Why so lean...........


Because lean is Mean................!


Ya, mean on rings, pistons and bearings............ whistling
_________________________
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`.....Check me out on FB for stories, videos and lots of carb pics..........760-900-3895........

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#2459447 - 03/01/18 01:08 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Thumperdart]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Originally Posted By DoubleD
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Why so lean...........


Because lean is Mean................!


Ya, mean on rings, pistons and bearings............ whistling

I was going to say something along the same lines, but ya' treed me.
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#2459518 - 03/01/18 03:36 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: BradH]
tex013 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1721
Loc: Sydney,Australia
.[/quote]
Makes sense, in that I'd suspect that whomever is in charge of the calibration for those carbs probably isn't told the intended application is 500 cubes making 600++ HP. Yeah, the bigger engine would create more signal than the carb was originally tuned for, whereas a too-big carb would need to be richer to crutch the lack of signal. [/quote]

Spot on Brad , the too rich I encountered with the Modman and 440ci . Seen it a few times on the dyno , raw fuel/black smoke but AFR showing lean .

Tex
_________________________
New best ET 10.535
New best MPH 127.14
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3657lbs through the mufflers
Power by Tex's Automotive

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#2459578 - 03/01/18 05:41 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: tex013]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
Originally Posted By tex013
.

Makes sense, in that I'd suspect that whomever is in charge of the calibration for those carbs probably isn't told the intended application is 500 cubes making 600++ HP. Yeah, the bigger engine would create more signal than the carb was originally tuned for, whereas a too-big carb would need to be richer to crutch the lack of signal. [/quote]

Spot on Brad , the too rich I encountered with the Modman and 440ci . Seen it a few times on the dyno , raw fuel/black smoke but AFR showing lean .

Tex [/quote]

NO outta the box carb will be ideal for YOUR application at least not any that I've heard or seen..... beer


Edited by Thumperdart (03/01/18 05:42 PM)
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#2459798 - 03/02/18 03:37 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: Thumperdart]
tex013 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 1721
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
Originally Posted By tex013
.

Makes sense, in that I'd suspect that whomever is in charge of the calibration for those carbs probably isn't told the intended application is 500 cubes making 600++ HP. Yeah, the bigger engine would create more signal than the carb was originally tuned for, whereas a too-big carb would need to be richer to crutch the lack of signal.


Spot on Brad , the too rich I encountered with the Modman and 440ci . Seen it a few times on the dyno , raw fuel/black smoke but AFR showing lean .

Tex [/quote]

NO outta the box carb will be ideal for YOUR application at least not any that I've heard or seen..... beer [/quote]

You got that Dom
June is off season , so then i will set up intakes to try dominator and modman again

Tex
_________________________
New best ET 10.535
New best MPH 127.14
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3657lbs through the mufflers
Power by Tex's Automotive

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#2459831 - 03/02/18 07:53 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
Thanks for the replies.Sorry for no update there was a problem with the dyno so he cancelled. I've been trying to line up something else and I find out today if Saturday is a go. Beyond that I will not have time and will be forced to put it in the car without doing the dyno thing.

It's kind of a weird combo, I did it this way to limit it to 10.0's in my 3340lb car. Staying safe with pump gas is important to me as race gas is $20+/ gallon up here, and I make 300+ passes a year. Down the road I can crank it up to go faster.

Either way I will update with results when I get them.
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2460248 - 03/02/18 08:58 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Sport440 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6555
Loc: Canton, Ohio
Great, Hope it works out for you this weekend. From Chucks post I under estimated the new combo it seems. You probably should be good on your current goals with this engine and more in it easily when you are ready. up

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#2461341 - 03/05/18 01:43 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
So I gave up on the dyno thing and bolted it in my car. It ran today, sounds mean. I will post performance when the weather starts to cooperate. Supposed to be at Pacific on the 18th but it snowed here today so we'll see. Thanks.
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2493476 - 05/08/18 12:13 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
I finally got some runs on the car.Best run so far is a 9.82 at 134.5 but I'm running out of gear at 1100 feet so I have to make a gear change.It's going to go in the 70's at 136 when I get it all ironed out I'm sure.

https://youtu.be/WHi2FmarXe4
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2493484 - 05/08/18 12:52 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24005
Loc: Oregon
Is 3340 the weight with driver? If so then you are making more than 650 hp. That is a little better than I was thinking with those parts. The heads must be pretty good even though they were not ported. Looks like a fun ride. You'll need some wheelie bars if you port the heads! Is the car legal for 9's?


Edited by AndyF (05/08/18 12:52 AM)

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#2493509 - 05/08/18 05:52 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
rb446 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/15
Posts: 222
Loc: UK
that is 1 cool launch....3340@134.5, I make it 667flyhp those heads are better than I thought...136 will be 687 up


Edited by rb446 (05/08/18 05:53 AM)
_________________________
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#2493530 - 05/08/18 08:39 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: AndyF]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
The car is 3340 with me in it, but in this video it had a 60lb weight under the front bumper to keep the front end down and it ran a 9.86! I have since got adjustable front shocks and it has allowed me to take the weight out and it runs 9.82 all day. The car is legal and I got licensed in it as well so I'm good to run it out.I'm sure there is more in it when I get it to pull past 1100 feet.With my current gears it wants to go through the traps at 6800 which is too many rpm's for this combo.My original plan was to run 10.0 so I didn't have to license, but now that's all shot to hell I will probably port the heads this winter and put a bigger cam in to see how fast it will go. No sissy sticks for me, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Ox077nCq0
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2493674 - 05/08/18 01:54 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24005
Loc: Oregon
The way that car is running I don't think I'd go crazy with a bigger cam. Get the heads ported and see how she does and then maybe add a little bit of cam. The problem with changing the cam a bunch is then it moves the torque curve and then you might need a different torque converter or different gears. Looks to me like you have that car really dialed in just as it sits. It launches hard and runs great.

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#2493705 - 05/08/18 03:36 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
Thanks Andy! The first 1000 feet is spectacular! 1.304 60 foot, 109.5 at the 1/8th but it stops accelerating at 1000’ so I’m trying different converters to get the tightest one I can find and then I’m going to have to do a gear change. My feeling is to should go a high 60 or low 70 at 136. I’m pretty happy with it, its deadly consistentl too. I built it to limit myself to 10.0’s so now I’m past that and legal I will want to go as fast as I can to make it all worth it. Lol
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2493727 - 05/08/18 05:48 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
Way cool and great running car......... beer
_________________________
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`.....Check me out on FB for stories, videos and lots of carb pics..........760-900-3895........

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#2493775 - 05/08/18 07:59 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8241
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
IMHO you have the perfect combo, don't mess with it smile . Runs very consistant, low rpm, should be very reliable!!! If you want to go faster, look to removing weight rather than changing the motor or rpm you run. Guess why i think this way? whistling
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Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#2493785 - 05/08/18 08:26 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: tex013]
Twostick Offline
master

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 4922
Loc: Downtown Roebuck Ont
Originally Posted By tex013
.

Makes sense, in that I'd suspect that whomever is in charge of the calibration for those carbs probably isn't told the intended application is 500 cubes making 600++ HP. Yeah, the bigger engine would create more signal than the carb was originally tuned for, whereas a too-big carb would need to be richer to crutch the lack of signal. [/quote]

Spot on Brad , the too rich I encountered with the Modman and 440ci . Seen it a few times on the dyno , raw fuel/black smoke but AFR showing lean .

Tex[/quote]


Probably because it was misfiring. If it missed or half fired, all the oxygen that should have been used up during combustion but didn't goes roaring out the exhaust and right by the O2 sensor which has no choice but to do its job.

Kevin


Edited by Twostick (05/08/18 08:27 PM)

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#2493809 - 05/08/18 09:29 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: gregsdart]
pittsburghracer Online   work
Slowride

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 12806
Loc: PA.
Originally Posted By gregsdart
IMHO you have the perfect combo, don't mess with it smile . Runs very consistant, low rpm, should be very reliable!!! If you want to go faster, look to removing weight rather than changing the motor or rpm you run. Guess why i think this way? whistling

M


Like Greg said concentrate on making the car lighter while still keeping it simple. Man you guys in other countries race fat cars. Even your A Body’s are heavy.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.89 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
6.001@113.27mph
9.44@138.23

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2493848 - 05/09/18 01:07 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24005
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By 10sec440
Thanks Andy! The first 1000 feet is spectacular! 1.304 60 foot, 109.5 at the 1/8th but it stops accelerating at 1000’ so I’m trying different converters to get the tightest one I can find and then I’m going to have to do a gear change. My feeling is to should go a high 60 or low 70 at 136. I’m pretty happy with it, its deadly consistentl too. I built it to limit myself to 10.0’s so now I’m past that and legal I will want to go as fast as I can to make it all worth it. Lol


I thought about it some more and it might be cheaper and easier to do a cam change than a gear change. If you had a little bit larger cam then it will pull all the way to the stripe and you won't need to change the rear gear. You probably have enough data now to sit down with a cam guy and talk it over. My guess is that you need another 5 degrees of duration at 0.050 to pull to the stripe but if it was me I'd run it by Dwayne to see what he says.

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#2493852 - 05/09/18 01:38 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
I like to over cam and my low 6 mid 9 second street driven Dart runs a .680-.660 Isky solid roller w/276-281 @ .050 w/standard port window home ported RPM heads at 12.1.1 comp and it's perfectly street-able and makes ok power...........I agree, step that puppy up.......... boogie drive
_________________________
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#2493924 - 05/09/18 10:34 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2583
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
This is a nice package altogether, thanks for chronicling. It's probably as good a 'bang for the buck' as any mopar. I'm guessing Indy rockers?... and well within the limitations of those. I was kinda surprised of the performance but hearing the heads are better than they used to be helps clear things up.

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#2493925 - 05/09/18 10:46 AM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
T&D rockers
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10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2494001 - 05/09/18 02:01 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30788
Loc: Bend,OR USA
If it was my decision on your parts I would send the heads out this coming winter and have them CNC ported and have the 2.25 intake valves installed to allow more RPM from then on work
Are you sure it isn't running out of fuel at the 1000 mark?
I've seen so many drag cars( of all brands shock) that have those issue with no other signs of lost of fuel delivery work
If you can't jet it up enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile your running out of fuel, not fuel pressure, fuel volume scope work
One of my newer Holley HP 1050 Dominator carb. had one .110 needle and seat in the front or rear and the other one was a .120 seat, I could not jet that carb. up enough at the 1/4 mile track to slow my old pump gas Duster down confused Once I changed it to .120 on both fuel bowls I could work shruggy
Lots of gremlins out there runaway shruggy


Edited by Cab_Burge (05/09/18 02:14 PM)
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#2494057 - 05/09/18 03:57 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
10sec440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: Mission BC
I don’t think it’s fuel related I have an Innovate AFR gauge and its in the low 12’s and consistent. With the small cam its a torque combination and it drops off after 5900RPM. I’m at 67-6800. If I shift 1-2 and 2-3 at 5800 it ET’s the same as shifting at 6500 but shifting at the lower RPM makes the top end even worse because I’m not as far down the track.
_________________________
10.15 at 130MPH Pump gas 440,3400lbs.

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#2494060 - 05/09/18 04:06 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13723
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Is the engine laying over before the 1320 like the valve train is going unstable at the RPM required to run it out? I wouldn't think it should be falling on its face above 6000 unless there is "something" wrong at higher RPM.

Are you recording the AFR ratio across the full RPM range? If so, do the AFR #s go wonky around the same time as the engine stops pulling hard?
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#2494083 - 05/09/18 05:32 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24005
Loc: Oregon
From what I recall your cam was 265/270 @ 050 with not much lift. Something in the mid 0.500 range? So that could be just a tad small for the cubic inches and RPM. Since the car is running really good I might stay with the same lobe family and just go up one or two sizes on the cam. But other people have good suggestions on checking for adequate fuel pressure at the top end. You hate to spend a bunch of time and money changing the cam then find out you have clogged fuel filter or something like that. I'd think that cam would pull to 7000 but perhaps it is just running out of air. That is where the dyno sheets would've been a big help.

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#2494116 - 05/09/18 07:31 PM Re: Guess my Dyno numbers [Re: 10sec440]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18683
Loc: State of confusion
Originally Posted By 10sec440
I don’t think it’s fuel related I have an Innovate AFR gauge and its in the low 12’s and consistent. With the small cam its a torque combination and it drops off after 5900RPM. I’m at 67-6800. If I shift 1-2 and 2-3 at 5800 it ET’s the same as shifting at 6500 but shifting at the lower RPM makes the top end even worse because I’m not as far down the track.


If the plugs show to be rich in the low 12's, I'd lean that puppy out accordingly based on fuel and hang on. With some motors I've worked w/and know about, to a point leaner is meaner and I went faster in the 12.8-13.0 zone than at 12.2's. I've seen dyno pulls of some serious all out n/a motors where max power was in the mid 13's and leaner in some cases........... beer


Edited by Thumperdart (05/09/18 08:04 PM)
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72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`.....Check me out on FB for stories, videos and lots of carb pics..........760-900-3895........

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