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my springs are sagging #2454130
02/19/18 09:02 PM
02/19/18 09:02 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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I have 2 year old stock hemi rear springs that I got from Eaton. They left the car about 1" short of where I wanted the car to sit, so on their recommendation I took them to a local truck place and had them re-arched.

In the last 2-4 months, they have sagged close to 1.5". I had the front of the car up on jack stands for the past 2 months dealing with the k frame. I didn't expect to have it up that long, maybe I should have raised the rear as well.

Regardless, I'm stuck with some pretty damn expensive springs that are now next to useless. Eaton has more or less said that a) 1 year warranty, b) re-arching voids the warranty.

Sandy suggested simply adding a leaf or two to each side. Does anyone sell individual leaves? And what about used springs? I suppose adding anything will help, but does it make sense to add some used leaves?

Last edited by mickm; 02/19/18 09:14 PM.
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454140
02/19/18 09:14 PM
02/19/18 09:14 PM
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Omaha Ne
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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454149
02/19/18 09:34 PM
02/19/18 09:34 PM
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Hamtramck, PA
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The stock springs in my 1970 Coronet had sagged.

A pal had given me a near-mint take off set from a 1971 Challenger, so I took both sets apart.

I took the top leaf (under the main leaf) from the Challenger set & added those to the Coronet set, one on each side. They were the same thickness & length.

That got the car back to where it looked 'right' again.

Ever since then, I save old leaf spring sets, just in case.......

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454157
02/19/18 10:03 PM
02/19/18 10:03 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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I have dealt with this same situation; wanting to maintain a particular rear height. After trying several things that cost a good bit of money and aggravation, what finally worked for me was to buy some Hellwig leaf helper springs.

I mounted them on the rear segments above the springs. You cannot even tell that they are there. And I can set the rear height right where I want it and can easily change it if/when I want or need.

twocents


Master, again and still
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: DaveRS23] #2454162
02/19/18 10:07 PM
02/19/18 10:07 PM
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I had a full leaf added at a local spring shop - $100 for the pair. Rule of thumb this raises it an inch and also increases spring rate. In my situation I needed the higher rate so I was happy all around.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454166
02/19/18 10:13 PM
02/19/18 10:13 PM
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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454243
02/19/18 11:24 PM
02/19/18 11:24 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
Sandy suggested simply adding a leaf or two to each side. Does anyone sell individual leaves? And what about used springs? I suppose adding anything will help, but does it make sense to add some used leaves?
I added a full used leaf to restore some height. As far as adding a half leaf in front or rear of the pin or a full leaf for a specific app (drags/street) that ain't my area.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454298
02/20/18 12:14 AM
02/20/18 12:14 AM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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I have a set of Eaton springs on my New Yorker. Same experience except I didn't have to wait. Humped over backwards right off the jack, just like the 40 year old originals.

Kevin

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: Twostick] #2454333
02/20/18 01:04 AM
02/20/18 01:04 AM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Twostick
I have a set of Eaton springs on my New Yorker. Same experience except I didn't have to wait. Humped over backwards right off the jack, just like the 40 year old originals.

Kevin


the mopar springs I bought from the dealership lasted 4-5 years. I'm thinking of just getting another set and resigning myself to 4-5 years per set...

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454403
02/20/18 03:38 AM
02/20/18 03:38 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline
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Adding an extra leaf each side worked for me. The extra is a bit longer than the 2nd leaf.


If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454440
02/20/18 09:45 AM
02/20/18 09:45 AM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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When you pay what Eaton charges, you shouldn't have to do anything but install them. I could have added a leaf to my old ones for a lot less $$$.

Kevin

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454491
02/20/18 12:36 PM
02/20/18 12:36 PM
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Calgary, Alberta Canada
a12rag Offline
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I bought the Mopar SS Springs for the 70 Sport Satellite when I redid the car. Within 1 year, they sagged to the point they were arched in opposite direction . . . took the original in to local shop and had them re-arched and extra leaf added - perfect height. That was 4-5 years ago now, have not sagged any . . . local shop should know what they are doing and work with you . . .

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: a12rag] #2454588
02/20/18 03:27 PM
02/20/18 03:27 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Originally Posted By a12rag
I bought the Mopar SS Springs for the 70 Sport Satellite when I redid the car. Within 1 year, they sagged to the point they were arched in opposite direction . . . took the original in to local shop and had them re-arched and extra leaf added - perfect height. That was 4-5 years ago now, have not sagged any . . . local shop should know what they are doing and work with you . . .


Didn't think of that. I'll call the shop that re arched them and see what they say.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454651
02/20/18 05:03 PM
02/20/18 05:03 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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if you go that route you can clamp the spring with large C clamps on either side aways away from the center bolt then remove the nut. I like to crack the nut with a nut cracker so as to avoid snapping the bolt if road debris has messed up the threads on the bolt below the nut to where it dont wanna come off easily. this would save you some labor & likely they will just need the main leaf(s) to rearch them but call em & ask.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454834
02/20/18 11:15 PM
02/20/18 11:15 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Interesting. I had a long talk with the guy who arched the springs for me, and trying to be polite, what he said is the steel is crap. If after 2 years they have sagged not only the inch they were arched but beyond that, that is bad steel.

He also said the steel coming from Mexico currently is good stuff. India steel is bad.

I think I can attest somewhat to that, as my mopar springs that I bought years ago lasted a good 5 years or more before they started to sag. These [censored] expensive springs from Eaton didn't last 2.

He said he can put a leaf in each side that will raise it back that inch and a half, the only issue is, are they done sagging? If not, even with a good leaf in there, they will sag more.

I think I'll try and wait a bit, drive it some more, and see what it does. I'm planning on driving it to Spring Fling with some friends, but it will be bad news with 3 of us and gear in there on springs that are now 1 1/2" sagged. So I'll have to do it before April.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454837
02/20/18 11:22 PM
02/20/18 11:22 PM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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i got some Alcan springs made for my powerwagon and they told me or it says on their website that it's normal for springs to sag a little. steel wears out, guys that abuse their springs hard might only get a few years out of them...

i imagine it applies similarly to high HP cars that are driven hard...

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454933
02/21/18 03:16 AM
02/21/18 03:16 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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If you add a leaf make sure it is the second leaf, and make sure it goes all the way to or a little past the front eye bolt, and close to the rear one. The only way to stop this is to add more metal, or a thicker main. This has worked for me, rearching or adding a short leaf never has. Ride quality will suffer.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454934
02/21/18 03:21 AM
02/21/18 03:21 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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I once played with springs in a 73 Duster...
This is what happens when the second leaf is too short!

IMG_20151214_0165.jpg
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2454956
02/21/18 04:31 AM
02/21/18 04:31 AM
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Salem
Grizzly Offline
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Mick, that spring shop fed you a line.

They effed them springs up for you when they re-arched them.

"Spring steel" is beyond my understanding of Metalurgy, but it's a special metal treatment and tampering with it either by cold bending or hot bending ruins them.

Cheapest solution is to get a couple of off-shelf leafs with more arch than what you have now and add them to your spring pack. Hope for the best that your car will sit level on both sides and you get the height you want.


Mo' Farts

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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: Kern Dog] #2455011
02/21/18 11:32 AM
02/21/18 11:32 AM
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St. Charles, MO
wingman Offline
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Originally Posted By Frankenduster
I once played with springs in a 73 Duster...
This is what happens when the second leaf is too short!


Aw, you're fine! You got 2 more holes left in those shackles to use!


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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2455036
02/21/18 12:36 PM
02/21/18 12:36 PM
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Michigan
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Replaced the springs on my car with a set of five leaf spring (stock are four) from JohnR Spring here in Michigan about seven years ago now. Back end hasn't sagged at all since installing them. Think I paid $250 for them and that included new rubber bushings.

Last edited by MarkM; 02/21/18 12:37 PM.

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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: MarkZ] #2455127
02/21/18 03:55 PM
02/21/18 03:55 PM
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Highland, MI.
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Originally Posted By MarkM
Replaced the springs on my car with a set of five leaf spring (stock are four) from JohnR Spring here in Michigan about seven years ago now. Back end hasn't sagged at all since installing them. Think I paid $250 for them and that included new rubber bushings.


Now right there is a helluva good tip.^^

Mick, what area are you in in CA? I can probably find a good truck spring shop out your way that can build a GOOD set for you! I've got 3 reps out there that have been in the truck parts industry for many years - they know all the good shops.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2455155
02/21/18 04:41 PM
02/21/18 04:41 PM
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My hovercraft is full of eels
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Put ESPO in my Daytona 15 years ago and still doing great.

I've put ESPO in everything ever since the first set of EATON ones sagged early on.


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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: Sunroofcuda] #2455166
02/21/18 05:10 PM
02/21/18 05:10 PM
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California
mickm Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted By MarkM
Replaced the springs on my car with a set of five leaf spring (stock are four) from JohnR Spring here in Michigan about seven years ago now. Back end hasn't sagged at all since installing them. Think I paid $250 for them and that included new rubber bushings.


Now right there is a helluva good tip.^^

Mick, what area are you in in CA? I can probably find a good truck spring shop out your way that can build a GOOD set for you! I've got 3 reps out there that have been in the truck parts industry for many years - they know all the good shops.


I'm in the SF Bay Area. Bett's is the trucking spring company I've been talking to.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2455230
02/21/18 07:34 PM
02/21/18 07:34 PM
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Covington Georgia
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I've used ESPO several times over the years and no complaints from me.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2455393
02/22/18 01:14 AM
02/22/18 01:14 AM
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Highland, MI.
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I e-mailed my rep - stay tuned.............


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: RV2] #2456933
02/24/18 08:55 PM
02/24/18 08:55 PM
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Land 'O Lakes
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I have ESPO's on my Duster...no problems with them yet... twocents


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Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2457863
02/26/18 02:12 PM
02/26/18 02:12 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Previous owner did the springs of my car. I've owned it 15 years, no sag yet. However the back end is quite high so it could sag a little and I would never know!

I would agree with 4406bbl's comment on add-a-leaf length. I did them on my jeep and it gave the lift I wanted but a short helper leaf will induce an s-bend in the main leaf if it's already weak.

Originally Posted By Grizzly
Mick, that spring shop fed you a line.

They effed them springs up for you when they re-arched them.

"Spring steel" is beyond my understanding of Metalurgy, but it's a special metal treatment and tampering with it either by cold bending or hot bending ruins them.


IMO there's some truth to it. Leaf springs are made out of a variety of different grades of steel, each with its own heat treating and tempering requirements. A spring shop has no way of knowing what they're working with in terms of both the grade of steel and how close the chemical composition comes to actually meeting the specification for the grade of steel it is supposed to be according to the manufacturer.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2458027
02/26/18 07:38 PM
02/26/18 07:38 PM
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Michigan
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A727Tflite Online content
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If I recall correctly - valve springs, coil springs, leaf springs - are all qualified by spring rate.

There may be durability differences between the various metals used.

I recall also that back in the day when Super Stock springs were the go to spring - they were "bulldozed" when new. That means they were over compressed after they were built. This resulted in them taking the proper set (chamber). Sort of reverse "re-arcing".

I'm guessing since these are "Hecho en Mexico" - that's not being done now. So they take a set on your car.

I think the good ones used to be made in Canada.

Back to Kuality Kontrol at Ma Mopar' Performance Parts Group being out to lunch.

EDIT :

I typed in bulldozing springs in Google and it took me to Suspension Specialists - Tech Talk.

So I guess my memory isn't too bad after all.

Last edited by Transman; 02/26/18 07:46 PM.
Re: my springs are sagging [Re: A727Tflite] #2458144
02/26/18 11:06 PM
02/26/18 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted By Transman
Back to Kuality Kontrol at Ma Mopar' Performance Parts Group being out to lunch.



Bingo...

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: RSNOMO] #2458329
02/27/18 12:52 PM
02/27/18 12:52 PM
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central texas
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krautrock Offline
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Originally Posted By RS23U1G
Originally Posted By Transman
Back to Kuality Kontrol at Ma Mopar' Performance Parts Group being out to lunch.



Bingo...


but the OP bought some nice, high quality Eaton springs and they are the ones sagging.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2458741
02/28/18 10:03 AM
02/28/18 10:03 AM
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NC, USA
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davenc Offline
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When adding an extra leaf, do you need to get a longer center bolt for the spring pack? Where do you find something like this?

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2458850
02/28/18 01:58 PM
02/28/18 01:58 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Yes you will need a longer bolt. Last ones I did the bolt came with the helper springs. Search summit for leaf spring tie bolt.

Re: my springs are sagging [Re: krautrock] #2458897
02/28/18 02:47 PM
02/28/18 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By RS23U1G
Originally Posted By Transman
Back to Kuality Kontrol at Ma Mopar' Performance Parts Group being out to lunch.



Bingo...


but the OP bought some nice, high quality Eaton springs and they are the ones sagging.



What does that have to do with the MP reference in the post???


What type of steel Eaton spring uses is YTBD...



I believe 'mickm' is being steered in the right direction...



Re: my springs are sagging [Re: mickm] #2459005
02/28/18 06:30 PM
02/28/18 06:30 PM
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Home of the Bluegrass
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I have a set of ESPO and they've kept me happy with their springs. I will use a set on my 69 Bee also!


"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar”
1971 Roadrunner FJ6 Sassy Grass 505"RB, 18 spline 4 speed, and Dana 60 with 3.54
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