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Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: hemicar1971] #2317936
06/08/17 02:21 AM
06/08/17 02:21 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Originally Posted By hemicar1971
Cudaman, Keith Black was basically finished. Everything with that Business had come to a stand still, foundry, machining on and on. The guys involved had to rebuild Keith Black from the ground up, had to get everyone back on board like the foundry. Since no blocks were produced for a very long time it has taken longer than normal to get everyone back on board and up grade to modern manufacturing and business practices.

The blocks are starting to show up now. Saw a few new KBs today at Bannings. He said it is taking much longer that was expected and there are a lot of people wanting the blocks and also the people that had bought from KB and laid their money down, looks like they will receive their blocks also. As for inventory of blocks laying around in a warehouse, I do not see that happening for a while. Tim told me if I want a block I better get my name in for one or it will be next year because of the demand and all the other things like filling old orders and new orders.

Now the KB is one good looking block and from what I have seen could take all that you can build into it. Indy block from what I know from the guys that live near me are having trouble running 1400 HP without them coming apart. It looks like the new KB will be able to take that HP very easily and a lot more.

If they're standing in line, that's a good thing to hear. I really really want to see this work, might wake up some other manufactures. I still like the idea of one block, finished and semi-finished. The latter popped out real fast.

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: cudaman1969] #2317946
06/08/17 03:31 AM
06/08/17 03:31 AM
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North Carolina
sasquatch Offline
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Well Hemicar laid that out pretty well but let me add a few updates. YES blocks have started shipping to both new order and back ordered customers. Ray, Tim, and myself have all gotten them, as well as several others. I know that Tim and myself both arrange our own freight so we know exactly and to who the blocks are shipping. I am shipping one tomorrow to a back order deal in Kentucky.
Yes the plan is to eventually have blocks available for immediate shipping. That will take some time to get there.
The last thing anyone needed or wanted was to send out blocks with any quality issues after all the wait time. The QC on these were tough and revealed some casting issues. Keep in mind that these blocks are pressure tested 3 times during production (One is to 125psi).
I will get into the casting issue in a moment. Darren turned to Bob Tarozzi who worked with Hoover and Keith on the blocks way back in the 70s. He also brought in Eric Hansen from Stage V for consulting on the issue. The problem has been addressed and it was mostly due to some technical issues with the pouring of the metal. The failure rate was to high on the QC inspections causing a high cull rate. Order 10 get 5 that pass. Not good. Thanks to these guys those problems have been eliminated.
It appears now that due to EPA mandate the resin used inside the molds was changed to a new product that would create less gassing when the molten aluminum hit the molds. This is not a problem isolated to KB by any means. Mercury Marine just canned an aluminum block they have been making for years that they could not get fixed.The hemi block has been difficult from day one and in particular the large bore ones due to the pushrod angles and the design of the block. Anyone who has seen or built a big bore hemi can relate.
There is no one on this board or any other that cannot wait for all this drama to be behind us and blocks are readily available in a timely manner. Think of ALL of the block drama the Mopar guys have had to put up with. Iron hemis from Mopar anyone? There have been others. NOT an easy gig to be sure. Mopar guys have always had to do things the hard way. Why do we keep banging our heads on the wall? Because it feels really nice when you stop.

There were numerous other issues that had to be addressed and still are.
Yes there is a Gen III on the drawing board but I can assure you that the Gen 2 hemi and wedge blocks are first in line. All other production of gear drives, oil pumps, ETC have been halted to spend all efforts on block production.
Anyone wanting more information on the blocks can Call or email Tim Banning at FHO, Ray at Ray Barton race engines or me at Marsh performance. None of us are hard to find. There is a new very good website being built and there are numerous other improvements coming as soon as possible.
TO the customers with Money on the table. I feel your pain as mine is there as well as Tim, Ray, Darrens. No one in that list has made one dime getting this going.
As far as stock piling blocks that is tough. The problem is (or was) all of the custom machining that was requested. Low deck, tall deck, hemi, wedge, solid blocks, raised cam, spread lifters bla bla bla.
One of the first things that happened was exactly what some of you suggested. Standardize production and they even have standard features at NO extra charge. Things like raised cams and oil to the lifters are no extra charge. This was done to get blocks OUT the door as quickly as possible. We can work with some custom requests AFTER we get the line moving again.
The new castings are arriving at KB in large quantity. The changes that were made are working well already. This has made the foundry much happier pouring them as they are seeing more production pass QC which helps their bottom line. I am sure more production issues will present themselves and they will be dealt with the best we know how. There are now people in place that can be called and issues will not be allowed to become roadblocks.
Todd
@Marsh Performance

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: cudaman1969] #2317970
06/08/17 08:59 AM
06/08/17 08:59 AM
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jersey
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Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
They took on a big project. If it takes 6 extra months to get it right, lets get it right. I never thought I would see a day when you could make a phone call to Keith Black Racing, order a block, and have it in your hands in under 30 days. Now I just may see it.

I don't think "one" should have to order a block, it should be on a shelf somewhere waiting for one to buy it! I'm not saying hundreds but at least 10-20 at the main wharehouse so it could be there in days. But that's how you keep the price up, never overstock, make it seem like they're hard to get. Does seem strange how many sbc, bbc, pontac plus the Ford blocks are so plentifull, who's foundry are they using? Maybe their machining processes are more simple.?? Here's a idea, make one size block, then YOU take it to some machine shop to make it whatever, like Chrysler sold at one time.


You get taxed on inventory.... The more stock you have, the more you pay...
How many mopar blocks would sell a year? MAYBE 25?
Just because a few people on a message board "say" they would buy one, doesn't mean there's a demand.

Can't make " one size" block. How you gonna make an RB from a B?
Or a small displacement block with a 4.5 bore center...


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2318038
06/08/17 12:09 PM
06/08/17 12:09 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Thank you Todd, very good answers. We finally have smart, dedicated people on board to deliver a great product.

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2318605
06/09/17 07:30 PM
06/09/17 07:30 PM
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Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
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Todd,
Dates? When do you expect them to be rolling in?
If anybody gets a new block besides the investors please post a picture of it.

"It appears now that due to EPA mandate the resin used inside the molds was changed to a new product that would create less gassing when the molten aluminum hit the molds. This is not a problem isolated to KB by any means. Mercury Marine just canned an aluminum block they have been making for years that they could not get fixed."

I told you the EPA was involved with the foundry, they also had huge issue with rain water or storm water run off from the roof of the foundry. I was given this information way back when Ken Black started having problems with the foundry.

Sounds like you guys have gotten over that hurdle at least.

California EPA is loosing some of there teeth. GO TRUMP GO!

Last edited by Biginchmopar; 06/09/17 07:32 PM.
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2318665
06/09/17 09:34 PM
06/09/17 09:34 PM

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Unfortunately he currently has his balls in a vice for a different matter.

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2319362
06/11/17 12:12 PM
06/11/17 12:12 PM
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Nevada
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merpar Offline
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Hey Spaceman, ship and stock those blocks in Nevada. NO inventory tax!
Excellent info Todd. Thanks for light in the tunnel.
Merpar

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2319389
06/11/17 01:19 PM
06/11/17 01:19 PM
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Charlotte, North Carolina
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Hats off to all of the people helping make this into a reality!


[image][/image]
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2319405
06/11/17 01:50 PM
06/11/17 01:50 PM
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in the middle
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" Unfortunately he currently has his balls in a vice for a different matter."


at least he has some!!!!

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2320820
06/13/17 10:32 PM
06/13/17 10:32 PM
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jacksonville,FLORIDA
slammedR/T Offline
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tall deck 48* lifter angle small blocks would be great, thanks!


2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads
1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel.
motor; 10.258 @ 132.78
200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69
racemagnum
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: slammedR/T] #2320964
06/14/17 05:13 AM
06/14/17 05:13 AM
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Melbourne , Australia
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Originally Posted By slammedR/T
tall deck 48* lifter angle small blocks would be great, thanks!


Don't hold your breath on that one!


Alan Jones
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2321212
06/14/17 06:05 PM
06/14/17 06:05 PM
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America
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Pictures from Tim. Looks like no hydraulic oiling? Thought hydraulic oiling was on every block now? Is that correct Todd or Ray? Just wondering. Thanks

rsz_11kb_block.jpgrsz_kb_block_1.jpg
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2321231
06/14/17 06:58 PM
06/14/17 06:58 PM
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PA
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You wouldn't be able to see the oil passage in these pictures. The passage is on the opposite side or the upper part of the lifter hole. They all have oiling passages. -- Ray

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2321243
06/14/17 07:28 PM
06/14/17 07:28 PM
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northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
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A question on the cam and main bores if you will,Do you finish these on the tight side and leave it to the customer to finish to there needs?As you may know mopar people have had to deal with tight cam bearings for ever.
Thanks for your reply if you do.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2321427
06/15/17 02:00 AM
06/15/17 02:00 AM
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America
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America
Thanks Ray. I think maybe I have only seen bushed lifter blocks and am used to seeing the hole welded up where they drill the bushing.

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2321494
06/15/17 07:49 AM
06/15/17 07:49 AM
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Mo.
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Nice lookin blocks there up

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2321521
06/15/17 09:40 AM
06/15/17 09:40 AM
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Central TEXAS!!!!
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Central TEXAS!!!!
oh great, 6 am and I am looking at porn. shocked


Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2358686
08/23/17 06:06 PM
08/23/17 06:06 PM
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America
WedgeFED Offline
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So Ray do you have any info on the blocks owed yet??? Seems like the same old story? Nobody knows...Nobody calls...Answering machines...Crickets. Not trying to cause another riot just want the truth Please. Darren assured me by the end of sept. and that is 5 weeks away.
Thanks

Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: WedgeFED] #2358714
08/23/17 07:18 PM
08/23/17 07:18 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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I like the valley design a lot better than the Indy block for oil drain back...


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Keith Black Blocks available from Ray Barton Racing Engines [Re: RBRE] #2359013
08/24/17 09:42 AM
08/24/17 09:42 AM
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Posts: 620
Deep DEEP SOUTH
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Awesome news Todd and Ray - please keep the updates coming. The block looks awesome, lets hope you can wipe out the back orders and start filling some new orders soon.

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