Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: Efidart]
#2444315
01/31/18 10:56 PM
01/31/18 10:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154 Canada
cuda499
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154
Canada
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So many experts chiming in on EFI... I tune both and slightly more carbs on the dyno. Carb changes are usually absolute. Simple One change, one result. Won't be entirely perfect everywhere but you can make them pretty damn close. EFI will only be superior when you have a good tuner and granted they know what they are doing. A half ass self learned EFI system vs a perfectly tuned carb. Wonder which will be better? Maybe the better way to argue this one is- Well mechanical fuel injection is better. All the top fuel cars run it and they are the fastest!!!.... Why don't you look at prostock..... seemed to be a change there????
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2444359
01/31/18 11:46 PM
01/31/18 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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There was way more to the pro stock change than just EFI.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2444377
02/01/18 12:17 AM
02/01/18 12:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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There was way more to the pro stock change than just EFI. Yeah, the stupid rev limiter and that moronic hood. WJ always fantasized about how much faster pro stock would be without the scoop. They are slower and look stupid without a hood scoop.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2444419
02/01/18 01:35 AM
02/01/18 01:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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Well I quoted REAL WORLD dyno and on track info from a class that is NOT pro stock and is very cutting edge. I know most don't care but guys running NA10.5 are on the cutting edge of engine development. Most everyone is using big name builders and the best parts money can buy all the while pushing the envelope as far as they can to make power within the rules. We have everything from inline wedge headed small blocks, to "conventional headed" BBC's making 1300+hp to spread port small blocks, to the fastest Pontiacs in the country making BIG HP and beyond. Most these guys will spend what it takes and take the time it requires to run up front. IF EFI was faster on track I feel pretty confident many would already be making the leap if there was something there. I salute Leonard and his efforts. He is a leader in innovation and not afraid to tackle something new. But he will admit it has not been easy and still is waiting to eclipse the ET he had with a carb. after looking at some of the videos with the clear intake manifolds and seen exactly what goes on.. with all the turbulence and Chaos that goes on inside of an intake.. it's amazing how close a carburetor is to a coffee can and a garden hose.. I think injector placement is everything . I think if you get the injector down low you could possibly accelerate the car quicker on the short side by putting fuel where it needs to be.. but then it will sacrifice up top because the fuel will not mix properly with the air.. if you put the injector up high it'll make more Peak power but acts a lot like a carburetor. After watching my book carburetor on the dyno pulling fuel out every orifice it had.. it's hard to believe the afr's were a steady as they were.. and I watch a lot of the na stuff out there . And Al is correct. Very few are fuel injected.. I'm excited to be partnered up with a high-end fuel-injected Panella motor.. that we are planning on doing some R&D with... but the serious motor will have a carburetor... .
Last edited by WHITEDART; 02/01/18 01:37 AM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2444432
02/01/18 02:06 AM
02/01/18 02:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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On mechanical FI moving the injector up always made more power. I was actually going to move them into the plenum at one point.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: madscientist]
#2444453
02/01/18 02:40 AM
02/01/18 02:40 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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So Im at the track one day. I parked right in the middle of a bunch of my customers. Over the loud speaker "lanes are open"
We all jump into a cars and start them up. All the efi cars are dying out. They are restarting and revving up their engines. I look my buddy who makes fun of my carb all the time and say Carburetor as I pull off. He knew what was up
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2444595
02/01/18 01:24 PM
02/01/18 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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I have also been told that there is more power moving the injector away from the runner. The trade off is that it is harder to tune drive ability, not impossible just more difficult. With some EFI systems you can adjust Injector Timing to work it closer to the intake valve opening. There isn't much peak power to be found there but better torque numbers by adjusting injector timing at lower RPMS. I have even heard of people using a much larger injector than needed and timing the injection event to only happen when the intake valve is open, it reduces fuel being blown back into the intake and helps peak torque numbers. This is all info I got at a tuning class, no first hand but the guy has lots of experience with engine masters entry and some winners even. Check this video out to see an EFI system doing more than most. This is a Megasquirt 3 Using Closed loop tuning with 8 02 sensors and per cylinder correction. It's interesting to see all the different corrections for each cylinder and how different they are until the intake starts to flow properly at RPM and then they start to line up. You can have this ECU for about $750....8 02 sensors extra of course. For reference on the trim gauges 100% is no correction, anything under it is pulling fuel and anything over it is adding from the base tune. https://youtu.be/6kQGp-fHuFc
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2445353
02/02/18 08:19 PM
02/02/18 08:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200 AB
Efidart
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200
AB
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So Im at the track one day. I parked right in the middle of a bunch of my customers. Over the loud speaker "lanes are open"
We all jump into a cars and start them up. All the efi cars are dying out. They are restarting and revving up their engines. I look my buddy who makes fun of my carb all the time and say Carburetor as I pull off. He knew what was up Sounds like you have a real [censored] tuner in your area. Maybe he should go back to knitting for a living.
TT Predator headed 572 7 Second Street Car. Fastest Mopar Drag Week 2015 Fastest Mopar & Dodge Drag Week 2017 Pro Street Power Adder Champion Drag Week 2017
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2445359
02/02/18 08:35 PM
02/02/18 08:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848 Memphis
HemiRick
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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There's a reason modern day engines last 300K miles and not 100K and its EFI. I want my hot rod Hemi to last as many miles as possible so it has EFI.....
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: HemiRick]
#2445371
02/02/18 09:10 PM
02/02/18 09:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158
PA.
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For me fast comes before last. Carbs for life because at my age I don’t have time to waste.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2445376
02/02/18 09:16 PM
02/02/18 09:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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For me fast comes before last. Carbs for life because at my age I don’t have time to waste. John what year are the two porta potties in your signature
Last edited by WHITEDART; 02/02/18 09:17 PM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2445381
02/02/18 09:38 PM
02/02/18 09:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158
PA.
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For me fast comes before last. Carbs for life because at my age I don’t have time to waste. John what year are the two porta potties in your signature I don’t get your point
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2445390
02/02/18 10:05 PM
02/02/18 10:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I think he's asking about the two port a potties in the background of the picture in your signature.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: madscientist]
#2445397
02/02/18 10:24 PM
02/02/18 10:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,158
PA.
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I think he's asking about the two port a potties in the background of the picture in your signature. Hey don't be making fun of our porta potties. We have flush toilets up on the hill but they put those there for us oldtimes so we can go while waiting to race.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2445402
02/02/18 10:32 PM
02/02/18 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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I think he's asking about the two port a potties in the background of the picture in your signature. Hey don't be making fun of our porta potties. We have flush toilets up on the hill but they put those there for us oldtimes so we can go while waiting to race. I need to get one for the garage so I don't have to keep running to the house.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2448503
02/08/18 02:18 PM
02/08/18 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732 eastern,Ky
70RT Charger
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
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Fi=People who can’t tune and can’t use a screwdriver.
Last edited by 70RT Charger; 02/08/18 02:19 PM.
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Re: thumperdart vs andy's fi
[Re: dodger mope]
#2448552
02/08/18 03:40 PM
02/08/18 03:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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It's the new wave.... with fuel injection and boost, You don't need a whole tool box full of tools. All you need is a laptop and an allen wrench......
Last edited by Old School; 02/08/18 03:41 PM.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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