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#2444410 - 01/31/18 10:18 PM 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters?
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
I just ordered the Comp 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers, and is it possible to convert to ball adjusters?

I am taking out the Crane Ductile Iron 1.6 Ratio shaft rocker system, and my friend installed the Trend Ball/Cup Pushrods. That said, will the Crane ball adjusters fit the new Comp Rockers?

I posted a pic of what my friend (Labratt-RIP) installed, and since I am driving the car/engine on the street, I wanted the roller tiped, Bronze bushed rockers to extend the life of the Cam and springs.

Will the currently installed pushrods work if I am able to use the Crane Adjusters?

Since I know very little about Mopar rocker setups, any help is greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you Mark


Attachments
7384616-DSC01329(Small).jpg



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#2444413 - 01/31/18 10:25 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
BSB67 Online   content
master

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 3598
Loc: Prospect, PA
I think you'll need new pushrods to match the Comp adjuster cup. The adjuster is grooved and feeds oil directly to the cup. I don't think there are ball adjuster that will accommodate this method of oiling the pushrod.
_________________________
500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes 4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter 11.68 @ 120.2 mph

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#2444422 - 01/31/18 10:44 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
OK, I am running a Comp Custom Solid Flat Tappet Cam (Dwayne Porter) and Comp solid (Porter - Nitrided) lifters.

Would you know what diameter and length of Ball/Ball pushrod to use?

Also, what brand should I buy, and I assume they would be hollow with push rod oiling that would NOT be used, since the cup would block the hole?

Sorry for all the questions, but I have never worked with shaft mounted/shaft oiled rocker systems.

Thank you, Mark

PS: Randy also had the RPM/Performer Heads milled .060, so that might affect pushrod length...


Edited by lockjaw-express (01/31/18 11:22 PM)

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#2444458 - 01/31/18 11:54 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
Moparteacher Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 354
Loc: Boise
Manton makes the adjuster for ball to ball with an oil feed hole for the cup.
http://mantonpushrods.com/products/adjusting-screws/

Personally, I think you should stick with the Crane ductile iron 1.6's. Rocker Arms Unlimited can bush the Cranes and blueprint the ratio. with HD undersized shafts.
http://www.rockerarms.com/

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#2444471 - 02/01/18 12:24 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
Moparteacher, Dwayne Porter told me to get rid of the Crane 1.6 with the high lift that I have, and his reason is that the valve springs, cam lobes, and valve guides will last longer for the street.

He told me that HP will be a wash...

Will the Manton Ball adjuster with the hole help? how would that work?

Mark

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#2444540 - 02/01/18 08:49 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Hello Mark, These are all good questions unfortunately you cannot 'assume' that a certain companies rocker system labeled for your particular engine will bolt right on and work without compromise. "Compromise" can be geometry that could work the system WORSE than the old system. Can I assume Dwayne recommended that particular rocker system?...why would you want to convert to 'ball-ball' pushrods? To answer your question to know if your current pushrods will work ...put it together and see ...that is the only way you'll know. Unless someone mapped out the 'ratio' of any of these rockers you are using, it is just a 'label of design intent' so, beyond the geometry, my only major concern is that if the new were ACTUALLY higher ratio than the 'old'. Then you could push the boundaries of coil bind depending...

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#2444570 - 02/01/18 09:49 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11331
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Changing to ball style adjusters, assuming you could find some with the correct oiling configuration, will lower the effective ratio of the rockers since it will dramatically move the point of the rocker to pushrod pivot.

The correct way to use the new rockers is to change the pushrods.

You will need to get a checking pushrod to determine the required length for your particular application.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2444622 - 02/01/18 11:08 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
Thank you Dwayne!

I will just go and order custom pushrods ball/ball then. What would be the strongest, yet lightest pushrod. Comp sells Tapered and dual tapered?

Also, What is your method of making sure the roller is centered on the valve stem?

I assume shims that go between the saddles and the shaft?

Thank you for your help!

Mark

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#2444634 - 02/01/18 11:20 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
dwayne welder Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/10
Posts: 201
Loc: warren, mich.
Repeat no lite weight pushrods!!!!!! In optron testing pushrods weight is not a factor. Actually bigger in diameter and wall thickness is good. Sum nascar pushrods are 1/2 Inc and bigger they weigh alot but do not affect rpm. Good luck

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#2444642 - 02/01/18 11:25 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11331
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
If you feel you need to relocate the rockers on the heads contact Mike at B3 Racing Engines.
He will make you some custom spacers.
"Shims" aren't really the way to go.

3/8" diameter .080 wall heat treated pushrods would be more than adequate for that application.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2444651 - 02/01/18 11:37 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
Moparteacher Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 354
Loc: Boise
Lockjaw, if Dwayne Porter recommends removal of the crane 1.6's then that's the advice to follow.

Best of luck.

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#2444655 - 02/01/18 11:44 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
krautrock Online   content
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1771
Loc: central texas
whats the process for checking pushrod length?

you just assemble with the adjustable pushrod, rotate motor until both rockers are on base circle, move adjuster where you want it (x number of threads showing) adjust pushrod to take up slack, then disassemble and measure the pushrod?

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#2444747 - 02/01/18 02:22 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11331
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
That's it.

With the Comp rockers, the adjusters should be set to one turn from "seated" when checking for pushrod length.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2444871 - 02/01/18 06:26 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
Dwayne, once you get that measurement from above, do you deduct lash and have the pushrods made to that exact length, or within a number of thousands less?

I bought a 12" dial caliper and a Comp Adjuster pushrod today, so hopefully I will be able to install early next week.

Thank you for your help, all of your help has been great!

Mark

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#2444873 - 02/01/18 06:30 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11331
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Put a feeler gauge the correct thickness between the rocker and valve, then set the adjustable pushrod length.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2448227 - 02/07/18 07:20 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
Hi Dwayne,

I received my pushrods from Smith Brothers, and they are 9.200" long .083 wall thickness, and 5/16 solid steel ball ends. Hollow, but no oil flow.

The adjuster has a hole in the cup to get oil to the ball.

Started up, and have 15psi more oil pressure cold, and about the same at Idle. Startup oil pressure is right at 70psi, and the engine idles MUCH smoother going from 1.6 to the 1.5 with roller tips and bushed rockers.

Thank you for all of your assistance!

Regards, Mark

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#2448392 - 02/08/18 07:57 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Good work Mark! The 'public' exchange of your 'problem' and its solution makes this a good post. If the spirit moves you, lol, could you put a dial indicator on the retainer and report the actual lift at the valve? and the specs of the cam? I just bolt a steel plate onto a couple of valvecover bolts for a magnetic base. Randy and I are still excited/wanting to see what that car runs 1/4mile! Thanks, even if you don't, thanks for the updates.

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#2448413 - 02/08/18 08:32 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
Hi HardcoreB,

Sure:

.579I/.585E Lift, 262/266 Duration @ .050, 108* LSA, Centerlined at 105*

Dwayne Porter designed Camshaft that Randy had bought and installed.

Planning to take the car to Norwalk or Columbus this year!

Best Regards, Mark

PS: I still call the GTX Randy's car...

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#2448415 - 02/08/18 08:34 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
A picture of the finished engine!

I hope Randy would approve!


Attachments
IMG_1155.JPG




Edited by lockjaw-express (02/08/18 08:34 AM)

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#2448476 - 02/08/18 10:30 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
LOL...I meant Randy Johnson...I took the liberty to assume he still has the same thoughts. No doubt this car is YOURS now Mark! I'm sure Randy is looking on with no regrets, rather he is pleased and happy if you're happy. Pic looks GREAT... so this lift you posted is the actual MEASURED lift at the retainer/valve after you installed these new rockers?

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#2448516 - 02/08/18 11:38 AM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11331
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Quote:
Thank you for all of your assistance!


Glad it all worked out well for you up
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2448660 - 02/08/18 04:33 PM Re: 1621-16 ultra pro magnum rockers convert to ball adjusters? [Re: lockjaw-express]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 471
Loc: Ohio
No, the cam sheet that I got from Randy B's cam card...I have not yet tried to measure at the retainer.

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