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#2442277 - 01/28/18 12:59 PM 440 Source main stud girdle
MagnumExpress Offline
member

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Wisconsin
Any thoughts good or bad?
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#9 in the world. 2006 IHRA Super Rod
2010 IHRA Div.5 Hot Rod Champion

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#2442316 - 01/28/18 01:56 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
Jerry Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6740
Loc: Warren, MI
if your considering a girdle, check out bcr products. yes we believe they do help eliminate cap walk and are cheap insurance to hold your caps in place.
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Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
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#2442412 - 01/28/18 05:19 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
Chargerfan68 Offline
mopar

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 669
Loc: New York, USA
I do have the 440 source girdle kit on this new build that is going together right now. A good friend of mine is also building a bb stroker snd he got the Bcr kit. It is much , much beefier and very well designed. If i wasnt so far along, i would have switched to the bcr kit. It is 1/2” vs 1/4” thick i believe.

Im sure the 440 source will help somewhat with capwalk, but the Bcr kit is much, much more rigid.
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1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.

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#2442426 - 01/28/18 05:38 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
'72CudaRacer Offline
top fuel

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: Mooresburg, Tn
The 440 source one is OK, the Hughes engines one is better and BRC's is the best in my opinion. The difference between the first two is the thickness of the girdle itself (everything else is basicly the same). BRC plate is 1/2" thick and is mounted differently. I've used all three, BRC is superior to the others.

Brian


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#2442504 - 01/28/18 07:17 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30165
Loc: Bend,OR USA
I am going to tell you to not waste your money on a girdle, the stock RB blocks fatal main weakness is the webbing between the bottom of the cylinders and the main bosses, take a hard look their to see what I'm concerned over.
All the stock 400 blocks are a lot thicker between the bottom cylinder walls and the main webbing up None of the other B or RB blocks have the thicker main webbing in them like all the 400 do whiney scope
My message is if you want to build a strong stock block race motor or any other pump gas motor with 600+ HP start with a good 400 block that is sonic tested first and then go from there twocents
I have seen 3 440 blocks and one 426 M.W. block that had cracks in the main webbing between the #1 and #3 cylinder going between the bottom of the cylinders and the main bolt bosses whiney
On the 400 blocks that I am going to build that sonic test well that will exceed 600+ HP I do replace the stock main caps with billet aluminum caps and ARP main studs up
Above 850 HP buy a new race block up
IHTHs thumbs
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Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2442517 - 01/28/18 07:41 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: Cab_Burge]
Dave Hall Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1591
Loc: Cotati, CA
The girdle is not a waste on an RB block. I have the same '72 block that ran without a girdle and you could see the cap squirm when removing the main caps. The girdle takes that away and I have been running near 700hp on the track for nearly 14 years with the same block.

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#2442538 - 01/28/18 08:25 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: Dave Hall]
Chargerfan68 Offline
mopar

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 669
Loc: New York, USA
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
The girdle is not a waste on an RB block. I have the same '72 block that ran without a girdle and you could see the cap squirm when removing the main caps. The girdle takes that away and I have been running near 700hp on the track for nearly 14 years with the same block.


Just curious: are you talking about a 440 or 400 block? Im using the girdle just for additional peace of mind. I installed on a 400 block.
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1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.

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#2442546 - 01/28/18 08:37 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
68 HEMI GTS Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 397
Loc: Temperance, MI
I put a source on my 511. Nice piece. Won’t really know how it’s doing until I pull the motor down for a freshen up.

[img]https://flic.kr/p/23iMAFo[/img]
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69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car

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#2442547 - 01/28/18 08:46 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: Chargerfan68]
Dave Hall Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1591
Loc: Cotati, CA
RB=413-440

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#2442559 - 01/28/18 09:08 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
MagnumExpress Offline
member

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Wisconsin
I think after looking at both I am going to purchase the BRC part if it will work with my oil pan. I don’t know if the thickness matters a whole bunch, but the BRC definitely attaches to the block better.
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#9 in the world. 2006 IHRA Super Rod
2010 IHRA Div.5 Hot Rod Champion

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#2442561 - 01/28/18 09:09 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: Dave Hall]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30165
Loc: Bend,OR USA
What main caps are you using on this build?
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Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2442571 - 01/28/18 09:19 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
RV2 Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2907
Loc: Covington Georgia
Are there any issues with clearance to the front of the oil pan to K member with the added depth?

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#2442572 - 01/28/18 09:20 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
'72CudaRacer Offline
top fuel

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: Mooresburg, Tn
Originally Posted By MagnumExpress
I think after looking at both I am going to purchase the BRC part if it will work with my oil pan. I don’t know if the thickness matters a whole bunch, but the BRC definitely attaches to the block better.

I had the same concerns as I run a Milodon Super Stock pan with the tie rod passing through the pan. Turned out to be a non-issue.

Brian

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#2442577 - 01/28/18 09:29 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
MagnumExpress Offline
member

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Wisconsin
I have been running this same combo for many years. It has stock main caps. I am running a Charlie’s dragster pan with a kick out on right side. Adding a little more power and want some insurance.
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#9 in the world. 2006 IHRA Super Rod
2010 IHRA Div.5 Hot Rod Champion

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#2442703 - 01/29/18 12:37 AM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
rowin4 Offline
master

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 5901
Loc: gulfport, ms, west mi
I put a BCR girdle, aluminum caps and ARP studs on my 440 about 9 years ago, after about 1,500 1/4 mile hits it was refreshed. I found 0 cap walk and the main bearings were re-used. The BCR piece is the best out there.
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#2442966 - 01/29/18 02:26 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: rowin4]
ccdave Offline
The Ultimate

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1713
Loc: Mopar Country, Mi
I would look at it like this. What does the girdle do? Helps prevent cap walk. What does cap walk do? Under extreme conditions such as high rpm's or detonation or both, the caps will actually lift off the block registers and bounce leaving small marks on both the caps and block registers. When those caps are bouncing off the blocks cap registers ,the webbing around the caps can fatigue and crack.. Them BOOM in some cases..

With that said, if you have the opportunity to HELP prevent the main caps from walking that could ultimately lead to the webbing around the blocks main cap registers cracking and BOOM, I really don't see a reason why you would not want to HELP the main caps from walking/bouncing with the use of a girdle. Aluminum caps is a big big help as well......

popcorn


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#2443029 - 01/29/18 04:53 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 248
Loc: Usa
The 440 source girdle is EXACTLY the same as what you get from Hughes (unless a recent design change was implemented). Pretty sure they get them from the same source, and use the exact same ARP stud part numbers.

Thickness has no bearing on the effect of the girdle, as it's intention is to eliminate "flag-pole" esk wiggle of the main studs, which attribute to cap walk and reverberation through the block eventually leading to cracks. It is NOT designed to influence lateral twisting of the block itself.

My girdle completely eliminated my capwalk issue, which I have photos of the proof.

The BCR kit is on a completely different level, but, IMO, not worth the machining costs to face the pan rail and the caps to tie everything together. I utilize his aluminum caps with my 440 source/Hughes style girdle and an very happy with that set-up so far.

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#2443113 - 01/29/18 08:11 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
Jerry Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6740
Loc: Warren, MI
The cost to deck the bottom of the block is really negligible usually around $100.00, our girdle interfaces with the caps to help hold them down, so you are not relying on just the main studs to hold them in place.

also our oil pan studs have counter bored holes in the girdle so you can bolt the girdle down tight to the block. then if you want use a gasket between the girdle and oil pan. some guys will cut a rubber gasket and install that so they drop the pan and inspect it as needed. this way you don't have to bother the main caps or the girdle.

plus we don't use longer studs to secure girdle to the caps. we use a secondary set of 3/8 bolts to hold the caps to the girdle. this eliminates double stretching the main stud. we also secure the #1 and #5 cap to the girdle with an inboard set of 3/8 studs.
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Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com

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#2443126 - 01/29/18 08:41 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: Jerry]
dartman366 Offline


Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 12967
Loc: Mt. Vernon, Ohio
Originally Posted By Jerry
The cost to deck the bottom of the block is really negligible usually around $100.00, our girdle interfaces with the caps to help hold them down, so you are not relying on just the main studs to hold them in place.

also our oil pan studs have counter bored holes in the girdle so you can bolt the girdle down tight to the block. then if you want use a gasket between the girdle and oil pan. some guys will cut a rubber gasket and install that so they drop the pan and inspect it as needed. this way you don't have to bother the main caps or the girdle.

plus we don't use longer studs to secure girdle to the caps. we use a secondary set of 3/8 bolts to hold the caps to the girdle. this eliminates double stretching the main stud. we also secure the #1 and #5 cap to the girdle with an inboard set of 3/8 studs.
good design and accurate machine work, I was impressed with mine. up
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#2443140 - 01/29/18 09:05 PM Re: 440 Source main stud girdle [Re: MagnumExpress]
Chargerfan68 Offline
mopar

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 669
Loc: New York, USA
Yes, my friends block is at the machine shop right now and i saw the setup after the whole setup was milled ans installed. It is impressive. I will purchase this kit for the next build for sure.
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1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.

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