Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2438979 - 01/22/18 10:50 AM 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2?
Charger446 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 236
Loc: Northeast MA
I was swapping my oil pan from a Moroso 7 qt to a Hemi 6 qt and my new oil pickup tube is too small. Turns out, my 440 block was drilled and tapped to accept a 1/2 inch oil pickup tube which is what I had on there apparently.

My 440 is very mild, Edelbrock heads, stock sixpack pistons, a MP 484 cam and headers. Do I really need to run the 1/2 pickup on this motor or can I simply get a bushing/reducer and use the 3/8 pickup? I assume I would need to trial/error the height to make sure it sits properly on the bottom of the pan first.

Has anyone done this before?

Top
#2439014 - 01/22/18 11:59 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
calrobb2000 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1495
Loc: s. e. pa.
not needed 3/8 will work fine

Top
#2439026 - 01/22/18 12:22 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4169
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Any time you incorporate a larger size on the suction side of the pump is better. I would get a 1/2" pick up pipe since the block is opened up.
Whitch straw is easier to suck thru, small or big one? Your oil pump is trying to do the same thing. HP!

Top
#2439055 - 01/22/18 12:56 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 33534
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:
My 440 is very mild
Your app wouldn't need it right now but as said since it is already tapped & I would get a 1/2 pickup & bend/mod it to get the pickup at the height you prefer. there has been mention of the block pickup threaded boss being too thin on one side after drilling along the original CL so you might check that. I like to have the pickup touching the pan with some added spacers so there is no restriction down there & the pickup is supported on both ends to avoid potential vibration cracking tho likely not a dealbreaker, just my OCD talkin.
_________________________
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Top
#2439092 - 01/22/18 02:07 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
SomeCarGuy Offline
master

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 8373
Loc: Someplace you aren't
Your Moroso pickup probably has just 1/2 threads and a 3/8 tube anyway. I’d get the 1/2 pickup though. Also look into if the turn has been opened up in the block. Should be pics or diagrams on the interwebs on that.
_________________________
Forever in debt to your priceless advice...

Top
#2439101 - 01/22/18 02:29 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
rumblebee4232 Offline


Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 188
Loc: Stinnett, Tx
I don't think I have ever seen a 3/8 pickup, I would find a 1/2..

Top
#2439112 - 01/22/18 02:48 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
therocks Offline
Its Lost

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 19143
Loc: Niles , Ohio
3/8 was standard.Imade my 440 1/2.But there were other mods needed to utilise all the advantages.I had the things here but lost them over the years.Rocky
_________________________
Chrysler Firepower

Top
#2439115 - 01/22/18 02:51 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: therocks]
Charger446 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 236
Loc: Northeast MA
Thanks for all of the great feedback guys, its appreciated.

Top
#2439399 - 01/23/18 12:46 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30717
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Get the stock 1970/71 street hemi oil pickup, they are 1/2 inch up
In the future don't let any one talk you into modding any stock B or RB to 1/2 inch pickup tsk twocents
The bypass spring in the pump determines how much oil goes into the pump and block, not the internal size of the oil pick up shruggy
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Top
#2439446 - 01/23/18 07:41 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Cab_Burge]
Charger446 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 236
Loc: Northeast MA
Thank you, that is exactly what I ended up doing yesterday.

I bought the engine about 20 years ago and it was already modified by the previous owner who had much larger plans for it than I ended up using it for.

Top
#2439514 - 01/23/18 10:26 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: rumblebee4232]
JohnRR Offline
I Win

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 73508
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted By rumblebee4232
I don't think I have ever seen a 3/8 pickup, I would find a 1/2..


There is, the 440-4 and 440-6 in 70 and 71 used the hemi pan and had a 3/8" pickup. The pickup tube was available , now ?

I used a moroso 1/2" pickup threaded end, its a separate part welded to the tube, to neck down to the 3/8 pickup tube for the original A body 383 pan, the block had already been drilled when I was building it for a different application.
_________________________
running up my post count some more .

Top
#2439548 - 01/23/18 11:19 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Cab_Burge]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 19223
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

The bypass spring in the pump determines how much oil goes into the pump and block, not the internal size of the oil pick up shruggy


Have to disagree, the suction side of the system is the critical limiting factor. Even with the bypass fully closed, if you can't get it to the pump the volume output will suffer.
_________________________
I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.

Top
#2439739 - 01/23/18 06:29 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: John_Kunkel]
ahy Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 7546
Loc: IN
In practice, the 3/8" pickup has worked fine on my B based 496 run on road track up to 6,500 RPM and street. I do not think the bigger pickup has practical benefit in a relatively mild engine... though I agree less restriction in theory is better. The bigger pickup has drawbacks also like potential for block cracks and stroker clearance.

From your starting oint, I agree with Cab and others... you are already tapped for 1/2" so get a hemi re-pop 1/2" pickup and call it good. A bushing is just another potential failure point and I would avoid that.

Top
#2439783 - 01/23/18 08:09 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
PurpleBeeper Offline
super stock

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 707
Loc: Chicago
I'm wrestling with this same question on a "street only" 440 I'm starting to build.... Is the 1/2" pickup necessary?

One thing I did find out (the hard way) is to match the pan with the pickup (same manufacturer). I put on a "hemi/six pack" Milodon pan & my 70/71 Hemi pickup tube (1/2") didn't fit. I had to buy a Milodon 1/2" pickup.

Also, fyi, I still have that 70/71 Hemi pickup in one of my boxes of parts.
_________________________
70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"

Top
#2439831 - 01/23/18 10:07 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: John_Kunkel]
SomeCarGuy Offline
master

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 8373
Loc: Someplace you aren't
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

The bypass spring in the pump determines how much oil goes into the pump and block, not the internal size of the oil pick up shruggy


Have to disagree, the suction side of the system is the critical limiting factor. Even with the bypass fully closed, if you can't get it to the pump the volume output will suffer.



Plus Mopar didn’t use 1/2 for no reason. The outer limit of a 3/8 might be beyond nascar needs, which wouldn’t apply to many doing this, but they did it nonetheless.
_________________________
Forever in debt to your priceless advice...

Top
#2439872 - 01/23/18 11:49 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: SomeCarGuy]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30717
Loc: Bend,OR USA
I run real loose (.0035+)bearing and lifter clearances(.002+) on all of my street and strip builds with 5W20 Wt. oil now with the high volume oil pumps with 65 Lb. + pressure at or above 2300 RPM with hot oil up No bearing or other oiling issues using the stock type 3/8 oil pickups with 1/8 inch or less pick up clearances to the bottom of the oil pan by checking that clearance through the drain plugs on the last 12 motors shruggy
I use to use 1/2 inch pickups with 50Wt racing oil realcrazy I have ruin several stock blocks while modding them for the larger 1/2 thread sizes and had to block the stock oil passage off in the blocks under the oil pump and use a Milidon swinging external oil system shruggy
No more twocents
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Top
#2440192 - 01/24/18 04:30 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: John_Kunkel]
lewtot184 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 2489
Loc: usa
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

The bypass spring in the pump determines how much oil goes into the pump and block, not the internal size of the oil pick up shruggy


Have to disagree, the suction side of the system is the critical limiting factor. Even with the bypass fully closed, if you can't get it to the pump the volume output will suffer.
right again john.

Top
#2440225 - 01/24/18 06:08 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Cab_Burge]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 19223
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
I have ruin several stock blocks while modding them for the larger 1/2 thread sizes


I never have, so is your anecdotal experience more valid than mine?
_________________________
I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.

Top
#2440314 - 01/24/18 09:12 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: John_Kunkel]
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30717
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Are you a machinest? I'm not shruggy
Maybe your luckier than I am on some things pertaining to modifying engines shruggy
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Top
#2440384 - 01/25/18 12:12 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
Von Offline
master

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 3698
Loc: NE Oklahoma
3/8 is fine....
_________________________
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Top
#2440745 - 01/25/18 07:06 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Cab_Burge]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 19223
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Are you a machinest? I'm not


If you can't eyeball the edge distance of the existing hole and tell if it's a candidate for increasing the bore...

All my blocks are drilled with a hand-held drill and the correct tap, even the mundane daily driver blocks. I drill 'em all the way to the intersection and then use a rotary burr to smooth out the sharp corner. (easier with the larger hole)

I figure I gotta get a new pickup anyway and the 1/2" price isn't that bad when included in a complete overhaul.


Attachments
Half inch PU.jpg


_________________________
I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.

Top
#2441251 - 01/26/18 08:16 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: John_Kunkel]
B5 Bee Offline
master

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 8020
Loc: Pangaea
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Are you a machinest? I'm not


If you can't eyeball the edge distance of the existing hole and tell if it's a candidate for increasing the bore...

All my blocks are drilled with a hand-held drill and the correct tap, even the mundane daily driver blocks. I drill 'em all the way to the intersection and then use a rotary burr to smooth out the sharp corner. (easier with the larger hole)

I figure I gotta get a new pickup anyway and the 1/2" price isn't that bad when included in a complete overhaul.



I do it the same way,
except I first use a die grinder to remove the threads 180* opposite the thin side. This moves the drill center point over, leaving more material at the thin area and reducing the chance of cracking.
Another advantage with 1/2", it takes less power to turn the pump.

Top
#2441371 - 01/26/18 11:58 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4169
Loc: fredericksburg,va
I did my 440 the same way, back in 85, a lot of passes at the track. I might finally pull the pan this spring just to look.
If you think the big blocks are to small, check out a small block pipe. I made a new one up for the 340 from the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine (a full 1" ) attached off the cover into the rear sump Magnum pan. Has that nice bell on the bottom too.

Top
#2441428 - 01/27/18 09:09 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: cudaman1969]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 33534
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:
I made a new one up for the 340 from the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine (a full 1" ) attached off the cover into the rear sump Magnum pan. Has that nice bell on the bottom too.
Mike would you have a pic (or a part # to search for a pic)? EDIT found one on eBay, that would be a nice piece & an easy mod especially if you have a rear sump pan.


Edited by RapidRobert (01/27/18 09:16 AM)
_________________________
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Top
#2441565 - 01/27/18 01:25 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: RapidRobert]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4169
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Quote:
I made a new one up for the 340 from the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine (a full 1" ) attached off the cover into the rear sump Magnum pan. Has that nice bell on the bottom too.
Mike would you have a pic (or a part # to search for a pic)? EDIT found one on eBay, that would be a nice piece & an easy mod especially if you have a rear sump pan.

I had to section, shorten, then tig it back to get it in the right direction, like making a header. If you still need a pic i'll send you a pm to show how it came out.

Top
#2441701 - 01/27/18 05:38 PM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: B5 Bee]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 19223
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By B5 Bee

I do it the same way,
except I first use a die grinder to remove the threads 180* opposite the thin side. This moves the drill center point over, leaving more material at the thin area and reducing the chance of cracking.


When I've tried moving the hole outboard the pickup pipe hits the pan side wall....have to dimple it. Might depend on who makes the pan.
_________________________
I'm supposed to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder for me to find one now.

Top
#2448355 - 02/08/18 01:58 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
Alchemi Offline


Registered: 02/24/14
Posts: 167
Loc: Brisvegas, Australia
So at a given RPM the oil pump will pump "x" volume of fluid
The 2 sizes of tubes have a different volume
The smaller sized tube would fill up faster and therefore recover from being "empty" quicker

There possibly would be a very small HP difference (1/2, 1hp?)that I doubt anyone on here could accurately measure as the bigger tube is easier to pull through

At some stage the small sized one would not keep up with a high volume pump and or rpm's, very much dependant on the bearing clearances and top end oiling system used

Its often said on here that our oil pumps are bypassing the regulator most of the time anyway

Simple enough, How long is a piece of string?

Top
#2448364 - 02/08/18 03:55 AM Re: 3/8 vs 1/2 inch oil pickup. Do I even need 1/2? [Re: Charger446]
451Mopar Offline
master

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 4935
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Question? At what point should a larger pickup tube be used?
Also, how much of a restriction is the hole in the oil pump?
I guess this leads to, how much better is an external line connected to the pump cover?

FWIW, both of my 400 and 440 stroker engines have 1/2" pickups. I'm just curious if they are really needed? My Jensen project 440 stroker (505") should be about 600 HP, and I have not decided which size pickup to use?
I picked up one of the 440 Source oil pumps (on closeout sale) that have the connections for the remote oil filter, and also an inlet for external oiling. I am thinking of plugging the external inlet so it will pull from the block pickup as normal. I really just wanted the remote filter fittings as that is how the Jensen is configured originally and I'm not sure what condition the original pump is in.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Advertisement
Sponsored Link
Forum Stats
25,293 Registered Members
32 Forums
189,367 Topics
2,208,119 Posts

Most users ever online: 882 @ 03/05/17 10:15 PM
Moparts Newest Topics
4 speed wont go into forward gears
by ryanf
05/24/18 02:10 AM
Interested in having your Mopar in a magazine? Check it out!
by 69bronzeT5
05/24/18 12:11 AM
68 charger steering wheel choices & restoration?
by furious70
05/23/18 11:19 PM
Happy Memorial day Veterans!
by astjp2
05/23/18 10:39 PM