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Header upgrade #2435136
01/15/18 07:01 PM
01/15/18 07:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 151
North Eastern New York State
montessa Offline OP
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montessa  Offline OP
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North Eastern New York State
My TTI 2 X 2 1/8 step headers have seen better days so I am considering changing to thier 2 1/8 X 2 1/4 race header. My car weights 3700lbs with me in it and made 900 HP and 800 TQ when Dynoed. It has run a best of 9.08 @ 148 MPH. Have any of you guys had any experiences with this type of upgrade? Do you think that they might actually be too big? Comments please. Thanks

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435184
01/15/18 08:23 PM
01/15/18 08:23 PM
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Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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They are not too big. If you have the finances, a custom set of stainless would sure make life easier. My twocents

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435223
01/15/18 09:28 PM
01/15/18 09:28 PM
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Liverpool, NY
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SILVER67 Offline
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Liverpool, NY
That a 572 with 572-13 heads ?

Re: Header upgrade [Re: SILVER67] #2435255
01/15/18 10:22 PM
01/15/18 10:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 151
North Eastern New York State
montessa Offline OP
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No, The motor is a 572 World block with 440-1 345cnc ported Indy heads.

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435295
01/15/18 11:16 PM
01/15/18 11:16 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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I know when David Ross dynoed his at Best it made power from mid 5000 range up with the big headers. I don't know that they ever ran them in the car though. Mine runs the 2 1/8" hookers. Same ET/MPH. Similar combo and except intake and carbs. Yours makes more power. That's a very good run at 3700.
Dug

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435487
01/16/18 09:08 AM
01/16/18 09:08 AM
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Mo.
racerx Offline
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That's a good running comdo to push a 3700 lb. car in the 9.0's what king of car is this?

Re: Header upgrade [Re: racerx] #2435495
01/16/18 10:18 AM
01/16/18 10:18 AM
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NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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Run the combo thru Pipemax,follow the recommendation and build a set. That's the best way.

Re: Header upgrade [Re: fbs63] #2435537
01/16/18 12:04 PM
01/16/18 12:04 PM
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Posts: 4,003
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By fbs63
Run the combo thru Pipemax,follow the recommendation and build a set. That's the best way.

I agree with Bob. The B-bodies have decent engine compartment room to allow for bigger tubes and smooth transitions. If you are having some built organize them in the collector respective of firing order. Also, consider if you will upgrade power-wise or any other significant powertrain changes (e.g.- tire size, trans gearing etc.) and bias the new headers based on that. A set done well can cover a decent variation in power without compromising much performance. The other major advantages is when done well, plug access and removal/install can be made easy...I know in the past for me, I would be willing to have opted to spend the extra time/money to avoid the aggravations. Multiply the 'aggravations' by each time you need to do something and they quickly 'pay' for themselves.

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435591
01/16/18 01:19 PM
01/16/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,315
Ohio
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jlatessa Offline
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Ohio
HardcoreB, explain why different collector organizing changes efficiency.

I can see if you had 5,6 or more pipes merging, but with 4 they are all adjacent to each other at any firing order??

Not trying to be a smart azz, just can't see how it could change anything.

Thanks, Joe

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435593
01/16/18 01:19 PM
01/16/18 01:19 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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My .02......

If the bigger tubes cost the car anything in the 60'(footbrake combo), you'll never make it up down track.

There is no way to know how the car will respond to bigger headers than to try them.

Fwiw....... A lot of $$$ was spent on bigger carbs and bigger cam.... Which basically did nothing to improve the ET.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Header upgrade [Re: fast68plymouth] #2435596
01/16/18 01:24 PM
01/16/18 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
My .02......

If the bigger tubes cost the car anything in the 60'(footbrake combo), you'll never make it up down track.

There is no way to know how the car will respond to bigger headers than to try them.

Fwiw....... A lot of $$$ was spent on bigger carbs and bigger cam.... Which basically did nothing to improve the ET.

iagree I found the same thing w/ a bigger intake manifold on my 572. The 60' suffered so much that the extra topend power never was a benefit as far as ET goes.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435653
01/16/18 02:26 PM
01/16/18 02:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Since mine is a foot brake car it leaves at low rpm, 2900-3100. It takes just over 1 second before it's up on the conveter flash, (6000). I've often wondered how to improve that time frame. If you're on the brake at higher RPM that time is less. Even though the big tubes show power on the dyno it may not translate to acceleration through the range.
Doug

Re: Header upgrade [Re: fast68plymouth] #2435698
01/16/18 03:33 PM
01/16/18 03:33 PM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
My .02......

If the bigger tubes cost the car anything in the 60'(footbrake combo), you'll never make it up down track.

There is no way to know how the car will respond to bigger headers than to try them.

Fwiw....... A lot of $$$ was spent on bigger carbs and bigger cam.... Which basically did nothing to improve the ET.

Well I remember a good bit about your car combo and last time I saw you (years ago) you had switched to 4500's and saw no improvement. More importantly I know you will consider the recommendations given here but weigh more on the one given by Dwayne (and you'd be right) so, for this reason I did not give my additional 2 cents. But because they seem to be in-line with what Dwayne posted I will second the general recommendation to error on the smaller side. I'll even go one step further and say I think a shorter (32-34") 2 1/8 into a 4 (4 into 1...don't get fancy) with as gradual bends as possible will work well. However, it might be a good opportunity to try another cam however based on what you now know. If your intake doesn't have a plenum spacer that too may pick you up. ...what was the original question again? lol

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435820
01/16/18 06:27 PM
01/16/18 06:27 PM
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Penna
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70satelliteguy Offline
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Penna
For a 572 with -1 heads at 3700 lbs. running 9.0's I would not change anything!!
My 572 with -13 heads at 3560 lbs.(same exact headers) needs a 150 shot to run 9.0s.
Mike

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2435951
01/16/18 10:24 PM
01/16/18 10:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 151
North Eastern New York State
montessa Offline OP
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Thanks guys, good feed back! I have to agree with all of your experiences. Right out of the box the old combo was stronger. The 60ft and 1/8 mile was quicker with the smaller cam and carbs. The mph picked up by 1 mph but the ET was down by half a tenth when I switched to the bigger stuff. Also killed the 2 foot wheelies! I am seriously considering going back to a good set of 4150 carbs to pick up the bottom end. I am afraid because to car ran so well with the smaller stuff on the first setup I got carried away with the bigger is better thing and went backwards instead. I believe because my car is heavy, that it is more important to get as much as you can out of the hole. The new setup may be making a little more horse power, however any gains that you made at the top were lost on the bottom. I would have to believe that the same would be true with the larger tube headers.

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2436005
01/16/18 11:32 PM
01/16/18 11:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted By montessa
Thanks guys, good feed back! I have to agree with all of your experiences. Right out of the box the old combo was stronger. The 60ft and 1/8 mile was quicker with the smaller cam and carbs. The mph picked up by 1 mph but the ET was down by half a tenth when I switched to the bigger stuff. Also killed the 2 foot wheelies! I am seriously considering going back to a good set of 4150 carbs to pick up the bottom end. I am afraid because to car ran so well with the smaller stuff on the first setup I got carried away with the bigger is better thing and went backwards instead. I believe because my car is heavy, that it is more important to get as much as you can out of the hole. The new setup may be making a little more horse power, however any gains that you made at the top were lost on the bottom. I would have to believe that the same would be true with the larger tube headers.

I'd be willing to loan you a set of 4150HP's to try. Give me a call and maybe we can figure something out.

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2436616
01/17/18 11:18 PM
01/17/18 11:18 PM
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ky
68roadrunner Offline
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with the bigger cam,carbs and headers, would you get the et back if you loosen the converter up to go with the upper rpm torque range?

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2436632
01/17/18 11:51 PM
01/17/18 11:51 PM
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Posts: 326
Alberta
Wookie316 Offline
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Alberta
The never ending search for just a bit more. This is interesting. My car last year was just over 4100 with me in it at just under 840 HP. My Sig line shows my best so far. I made a couple of changes over the winter that I hope don’t put me backwards. One improvement is I should be under 4000 maybe even close to 3900. I’ve taken just under a 100 off and I think I can find another 100 to come off fairly easy without starting to look strictly race.
It will be interesting to see if I improved or not?

I run the same step header as you on an EZ-1.

Sometimes I think the rules for us heavy weights are a bit different then the lighter cars.
I run the low gear set in my 727. Not sure if that is good or a handicap?
Great looking car with impressive numbers. That is one to be proud of.

Last edited by Wookie316; 01/17/18 11:52 PM.

1971 Plum Crazy Super Bee. 572 World Aluminum block with a Cope 727 & Dana 4.10 out back. 9.88 @ 138 with a 1.35 60 NA. Dialed back to 10.0’s. 4000 lbs with me in it.
Re: Header upgrade [Re: HardcoreB] #2436633
01/17/18 11:52 PM
01/17/18 11:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 151
North Eastern New York State
montessa Offline OP
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North Eastern New York State
Thanks Hardcore, what do you have? My original setup was a pair of 750 DP's with the air horns milled off, circle track floats, plugged power valves and jetted square. The carbs had been on my 446, 528 and then 572. They worked just fine on every combo. Apparently the 750's were big enough. I have gone to a few of the different sites on carb sizing and they all say in the 1250 to 1350 CFM range for a 572 @ 7400 RPM's and at 110% efficiency. I called Quick Fuel last week and was suggested two 850's. However, I wasn't to confident with the tech that I talked to. With every question I asked, he had to talk to someone else for an answer! What do you guys think?

Re: Header upgrade [Re: montessa] #2436642
01/18/18 12:17 AM
01/18/18 12:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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So. Burlington, Vt.
A quick fuel “850” has a 1.400 x 1.750 main body.
That’s probably a good choice.

As long as the metering was set up properly, I’d expect them to run pretty well.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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