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#2434966 - 01/15/18 10:43 AM Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear
65 Hemi Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 934
Loc: North Texas
I am building a 65 Coronet for street/track. It will be on the street about 80-90% of the time. It will have a 6.4 gen 3 with a magnason Blower. Anybody running the magnaforce transformer front end on there car? How does it handle? Im going to switch the k member so I figured I may as well switch to coil overs and Independent rear suspension as well. I am thinking of running the roadster shop rear kit unless anybody has had good luck with others. I’m all ears since this will be my first handling car I’ve built. I have always built drag/street cars.
_________________________
Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet 605" KB Alum Stage V Hemi, Pro Trans 727
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads, T400
1965 Plymouth Belvedere 1 440 with 906 heads
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
1955 Chevy post 283, T350 (soon 434" SBC pump gas)
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!

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#2435898 - 01/16/18 06:07 PM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: 65 Hemi]
TC@HP2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 4871
Loc: Pikes Peak Country
What is the motivation for changing up the suspension? If its 80-90% street time, what type of tracking is the other 10-20%? Does this other percentage require rapid spring changes and involve uneven road conditions? Are there rules limitations about what can or can't be done?

While coil overs are a very compact way to have easy access to height adjustments, varied spring rates, rapid spring changes, and lighter weight, that's about where the benefits stop. I have no detailed info on the Transformers unit, but it looks massive.

Similarly, IRS are a neat way to maximize tire contact patches but are rarely every fully utilized to their full capability in most cases and in some high powered applications, are actually a liability for broken parts, depending on the power levels you planning.

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#2435985 - 01/16/18 08:10 PM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: TC@HP2]
65 Hemi Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 934
Loc: North Texas
Thanks for the info. I’m planning on doing some autocross racing. I’ve built many drag cars and don’t want to do it twice. So with this being my first autocross car I want the best suspension I can afford. Since I’m building this car and it needs a rearend and new suspension I am half way to a IRS by the time I buy a four link, coilovers housing and axles.
_________________________
Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet 605" KB Alum Stage V Hemi, Pro Trans 727
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads, T400
1965 Plymouth Belvedere 1 440 with 906 heads
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
1955 Chevy post 283, T350 (soon 434" SBC pump gas)
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!

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#2437648 - 01/19/18 05:32 PM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: 65 Hemi]
TC@HP2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 4871
Loc: Pikes Peak Country
XV Level 2 suspension may be a better front suspension than the Magnumforce. XV spent ridiculous amount of money engineering and testing their system. They offer some robust systems. A number of their hard parts are based off C4 vette components, so they are durable with a large selection of aftermarket support parts and numerous components in their system are more modular so they can be easily upgraded. Magnumforce has done a good amount of design work, but I've never seen much horsepower behind the why and wherefore of what they've built. Either one is going to cost you north of $6k fully outfitted.

Roadster shop seems to make good stuff. No experience with them. Certainly an IRS is a great rear end. If you are fabbing a lot of parts, then you may as well go for it. However, in a road race environment, 3 links or torque arms tend to work better than 4 links. While marginally less adjustable, they also have less potential for bind and greater articulation

IMO, best bang for the buck isn't found in any of these. Many of the fastest autocrossing mopars are actually running stock based set ups with some key component changes. Hotchkis and Firm Feel have done a lot of leg work and research into creating these system that take the already quite capable stock system to the next level or three. They also are budget friendly and an entire Hotchkis system will cost less than just one end of any of the above systems. But it all depends on what you want it to do and how you want it to do it and what rules are going to do to you with these mods. Many autocross classes are rules limited. Truly unlimited classes are running systems costing twice as much as anything mentioned here so far.

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#2438020 - 01/20/18 02:31 PM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: TC@HP2]
65 Hemi Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 934
Loc: North Texas
Thank you , I will look in to XV suspension. I’m completely new to the road course stuff.
_________________________
Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet 605" KB Alum Stage V Hemi, Pro Trans 727
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads, T400
1965 Plymouth Belvedere 1 440 with 906 heads
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
1955 Chevy post 283, T350 (soon 434" SBC pump gas)
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!

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#2442749 - 01/29/18 04:45 AM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: 65 Hemi]
migsBIG Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17029
Loc: San Jose,CA
Magnum Force Has better design and strength. After 4 years of checking around and comparing suspension of 5 choices, I went with the Transformer. Easy to assemble, improved geometry, track proven, k-member strength is like 5 times stronger than stock (and most others out there). Suspension parts are not the 'mustang II' style most shops use. I have two builds going on right now and using their parts on both of them. I even plan on using their lower control arms on a future off-road project in the future.


Attachments
IMG_5817.JPG


_________________________

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#2444528 - 02/01/18 08:08 AM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: migsBIG]
65 Hemi Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 934
Loc: North Texas
Thanks for the info. That’s the way I am leaning. With it being mostly a street car I will need a very stout suspension because the roads in Texas are very bad.
_________________________
Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet 605" KB Alum Stage V Hemi, Pro Trans 727
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads, T400
1965 Plymouth Belvedere 1 440 with 906 heads
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
1955 Chevy post 283, T350 (soon 434" SBC pump gas)
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!

Top
#2444532 - 02/01/18 08:13 AM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: 65 Hemi]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13821
Loc: up yours
Originally Posted By 65 Hemi
Thanks for the info. That’s the way I am leaning. With it being mostly a street car I will need a very stout suspension because the roads in Texas are very bad.


The roads are just fine, try driving on the pavement.
_________________________
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.

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#2445159 - 02/02/18 09:50 AM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: migsBIG]
TC@HP2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 4871
Loc: Pikes Peak Country
Originally Posted By migsBIG
Magnum Force Has better design and strength. After 4 years of checking around and comparing suspension of 5 choices, I went with the Transformer. Easy to assemble, improved geometry, track proven, k-member strength is like 5 times stronger than stock (and most others out there). Suspension parts are not the 'mustang II' style most shops use. I have two builds going on right now and using their parts on both of them. I even plan on using their lower control arms on a future off-road project in the future.


Better and stronger...by comparing all the manufacturers propaganda or as verified by a third party? Anyone can say anything and assign numbers to it from their solidworks program and then sell it so I'm always leery of big claims like 5 times stronger than stock.

The Transformer set up looks massive, yet they are also claiming lighter weight than stock. Looking at the shear size of those parts and combined with their lightweight claim, they must be constructed of some thin wall material. That would give me some pause for a street vehicle. Maybe they are great, maybe not. I really don't know since I've not used any of their stuff. One thing I do like about the XV set ups is they are using OEM proven components from C4 Vettes. GM put more R&D and testing into those than all the mopar aftermarket manufacturers combined. I'd tend to say they are pretty sound.

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#2446104 - 02/04/18 08:10 AM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: TC@HP2]
goldduster318 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Lake Orion, MI
Originally Posted By TC@HP2
Originally Posted By migsBIG
Magnum Force Has better design and strength. After 4 years of checking around and comparing suspension of 5 choices, I went with the Transformer. Easy to assemble, improved geometry, track proven, k-member strength is like 5 times stronger than stock (and most others out there). Suspension parts are not the 'mustang II' style most shops use. I have two builds going on right now and using their parts on both of them. I even plan on using their lower control arms on a future off-road project in the future.


Better and stronger...by comparing all the manufacturers propaganda or as verified by a third party? Anyone can say anything and assign numbers to it from their solidworks program and then sell it so I'm always leery of big claims like 5 times stronger than stock.

The Transformer set up looks massive, yet they are also claiming lighter weight than stock. Looking at the shear size of those parts and combined with their lightweight claim, they must be constructed of some thin wall material. That would give me some pause for a street vehicle. Maybe they are great, maybe not. I really don't know since I've not used any of their stuff. One thing I do like about the XV set ups is they are using OEM proven components from C4 Vettes. GM put more R&D and testing into those than all the mopar aftermarket manufacturers combined. I'd tend to say they are pretty sound.


Agree, I'd love to see a finite element analysis of that k-frame, I bet it doesn't look very good unless its made out of some extremely thick metal. If it's thin, I bet it's very bendy and has some serious stress risers, especially in the area around the mounting for the steering rack. There's also a lot of flat metal without any darts or ribs, and sharp corners made without gussets.

The upper and lower control arms are likely fine though.
_________________________
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip

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#2447025 - 02/05/18 04:38 PM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: 65 Hemi]
migsBIG Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17029
Loc: San Jose,CA
I am behind in an article I was making for on-line reading for moparts front suspension where I checked and weigh the pro's and con's of different suspensions I have checked. Most commonly mentioned suspension is XV, QA1, Magnum Force and FFI, So I purchased or met with people who had purchased these components and did inspections on these parts. Magnum Force Transformer was what I went with on my cuda due to the strength of the k-member and header clearance and improved geometry needed for road courses. FFI was what I went with on my Charger as it was stock appearing and improved road handeling for 'spirited driving'. Magnum Force tubular on "Doom Buggy" drag/street car (that could change as I'm always flipping stuff around). QAI and XV will talk about another time and will address the concerns on the 'Transformer". The weigh savings does not come from the construction of the k-member itself, but of the components it no longer uses. Remove the cast iron steering box, pitman arm, idler arm and center link and use a late model aluminum rack n-pinion, that will save weight. Remove the pressed steel upper control arms and replace them with stronger chrome moly tubing and no torsion bars will save weight. I find that most folks using this setup tend to go with modified engines which use lighter components and need better exhaust clearance. When you calculate brake parts used, that could go up or down in weight as it's dictated by the use the car will be foe. he 'Transformer' allows you to pick which spindle you want 9stock or "2 inch drop so you have more choices on braking. These will reduce weight when totaled out in comparison to stock parts. The Magnum Force suspension cradle is made of very thick, USA made steel and done by certified welders which keeps the consistence of quality. I'm heading out to work, be back Wednesday, see if I need to post anything else if you need more info. pics are hard t upload here, but will try when I have some time.


Here is a video on one car that wanted to use the magnum force suspension,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDTmhH6HVGM


Edited by migsBIG (02/05/18 05:19 PM)
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#2447037 - 02/05/18 04:57 PM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: 65 Hemi]
migsBIG Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17029
Loc: San Jose,CA
Here is one ruff pic of the metal stock they use. not thin and good quality steel. If I can get more funds later on, I'll see if I can get pics of all the suspensions together and do a side-by-side comparison.



XV looks like regular flat stock metal they made fit their parts. Chevy made their stuff to fi their car, so did XV reengineered it to fit their suspension needs, or used it because it was a cheaper replacement then designing one from scratch?


Attachments
IMG_3.jpg




Edited by migsBIG (02/05/18 05:14 PM)
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#2447343 - 02/06/18 09:53 AM Re: Magnaforce Transformer and Roadster shop independent rear [Re: migsBIG]
jcc Offline
No politics

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 17134
Loc: Trumussia
My 2013 related project:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...roids-long.html

On above attached pictured XV K frame painted black, other promo pics indicated it was welded Alum tube, is that the case here? I have a big issue with welded alum tube in non redundant critical widely and reversiblely loaded suspension components.
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Seeking more civil pastures

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