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Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: BSB67] #2430151
01/06/18 08:24 PM
01/06/18 08:24 PM
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Phoenix, AZ
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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I'm assuming the effect of a hand over the carb neck "should" kill the motor correct? If I'm off base here how do you do that test? I'll try and bump the timing to 24 but anymore than that I would be nervous.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2430195
01/06/18 09:51 PM
01/06/18 09:51 PM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Cup your hand to choke it out. It usually takes a me a couple of hand position adjustments. It will choke out and die with or without a vacuum leak. The difference is if there is a leak, there will be an very brief increase in rpm before it dies. It is subtle and pretty quick and you'll need to be listening closely.

Engine has to be fully warmed up. If it dies instantly. No leak and you can move on to the next thing.

I've always been able to identify if there is a leak this way, but not necessarily able to find it with soapy water, or spraying stuff around.

I don't know if this is your problem. As I said, I don't think so, but I'm still not quite following your description. If your idle is what I call "wondering" at idle, I have found that it is either a vacuum leak, or the mechanical advance weights are too week and the timing moves around at idle, especially when you put it in gear.

Good luck.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: BSB67] #2430197
01/06/18 09:53 PM
01/06/18 09:53 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted By BSB67
If your idle is what I call "wondering" at idle, I have found that it is either a vacuum leak, or the mechanical advance weights are too week and the timing moves around at idle, especially when you put it in gear.

Good luck.
iagree scope


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2430216
01/06/18 10:31 PM
01/06/18 10:31 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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The distributor is new Firecore unit. I left the stock silver springs in on the advice of Rich and a couple others on here. Should I try playing with springs and or weights? I don't think there any options on weights for those though.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2430218
01/06/18 10:33 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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"wondering" would be an accurate description as well.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2430825
01/07/18 11:50 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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I just looked at the timing curve chart from Firecore and I have the blue springs in there as shipped from them, not the silver.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: BSB67] #2431134
01/08/18 04:41 PM
01/08/18 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted By BSB67
but I'm thinking you simply need to get into the weed on your idle tune-up.


agreed, first thing i would do is go over the idle tune once it gets completely warm.
the motor should be gradually idling smoother and stronger as it warms up until it's finally completely warm.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: krautrock] #2431353
01/08/18 11:28 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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I agree completely but it does the opposite at operating temp. The cold idle just after it runs for a couple minutes before hitting 180 and all other throttle positions are just fine. My next move is to set the timing at 24 initial, see how that goes. Then, try a different combination of advance springs and see how that works or not. I'll put the chrome box back on too as I have ruled that out as the culprit.

After that I'll wave the white flag and deal with it as is.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2431465
01/09/18 03:25 AM
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If the electrical stuff doesn't fix it, let me know cos there's a couple things you can do to hopefully make it better.............. thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Thumperdart] #2431601
01/09/18 02:16 PM
01/09/18 02:16 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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Will do, thanks for the offer!

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2432998
01/11/18 08:26 PM
01/11/18 08:26 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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Well, it doesn't like the timing at 24, I got it to detonate on moderate acceleration. I changed the advance springs to the lightest silver springs in the kit without much of a difference there. I was home alone so wasn't able to check the in gear timing. I'll play around with it again next week.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2433000
01/11/18 08:29 PM
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BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted By Belvedere1
Well, it doesn't like the timing at 24, I got it to detonate on moderate acceleration. I changed the advance springs to the lightest silver springs in the kit without much of a difference there. I was home alone so wasn't able to check the in gear timing. I'll play around with it again next week.


The timing at 24 was only to see if it had an impact on your idle problem. Any change there?

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: BSB67] #2433015
01/11/18 08:59 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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That did actually help having it at 24 but when I heard it start to rattle I put it back at 20. I repeated the hands over the carb throat and it killed the motor with no brief increase of RPM.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2433115
01/11/18 11:33 PM
01/11/18 11:33 PM
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If it's really pinging at light load like that, you need to step up fuel grade or mix imo...........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Thumperdart] #2433126
01/11/18 11:54 PM
01/11/18 11:54 PM
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Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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I think 24 initial would be too much timing. I would take one thing at a time here. If the RPM is wandering or hunting at idle, I would think that is a lean condition. A fat condition would load up and die at some point.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Dave Hall] #2433154
01/12/18 12:53 AM
01/12/18 12:53 AM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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The idle screws are 1.5 out, it doesn't smell lean at all. I think the carb is pretty well dialed in overall.

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Thumperdart] #2433157
01/12/18 12:57 AM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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I also didn't reduce the mechanical advance to it was still advancing higher than it should have with 4 more deg of initial. 91 is the best pump gas you can get at 99.99% of stations.

95 is about 5.40/gal and 100 is 7.40/gal

Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Belvedere1] #2433171
01/12/18 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted By Belvedere1
I also didn't reduce the mechanical advance to it was still advancing higher than it should have with 4 more deg of initial. 91 is the best pump gas you can get at 99.99% of stations.

95 is about 5.40/gal and 100 is 7.40/gal


Generally what I've seen is as much initial as needed(or locked out)then limit the total to where it's happy octane wise...........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: Thumperdart] #2433897
01/13/18 02:25 PM
01/13/18 02:25 PM
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Mesa, Arizona
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I’ve been lurking here listening to all the advice. I’m not a professional tuner but I know enough to keep me out of trouble. With the exception of the heads your engine is about equal to the 451 I had in my Charger. Not really a Holley guy but know enough to be dangerous.

From the latest postings it’s sounding more and more to be ignition. Having not seen your car in over a year it would be hard for me to comment. Let’s say we get together and solve this problem. Just set aside a day to give us time. Between the two of us we should be able to solve the problem. Send me a PM or text me. I know you have a busy work schedule but being retired I’m flexible.


“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”

Abe Lincoln
Re: Carb suggestions, looking at going Holley-Update [Re: dart4forte] #2434180
01/13/18 11:58 PM
01/13/18 11:58 PM
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Belvedere1 Offline OP
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I really appreciate the offer and short of me making a couple of distributor adjustments I will take you up on it. I feel like I am closer than I have ever been on this. I agree the that remedy lies in the ignition and all signs point to the distributor. If I don't see any improvement I'm ready to for a fresh set of eyes and ideas. I think sometimes you get so wrapped up in something you lose that perspective of being able to step back and have a different approach.

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