Richard Freeman

it's dead.... there's no going back. If you put pro mod in there, in a short time it will be dead too. In a way technology has killed the sport. Drag racing has always been a "keep up with the joneses" in the heads up categories and the cost to do that has weeded out all the "kind of / sort of" teams. In the past there were always the teams that were there for the "fun of it" in a way... There was a good story awhile back about prostock and the competitors along the way and the waves of dominance throughout the years with a single or couple of "players" that often were a shoe in for the winners circle, yet... there were 30+ other teams showing up to "try". Those "extras" have dwindled to next to nothing. From my now "old guy" prospective my first national event was at Brainerd in the mid 80's. Tons of cars in the class, and tons of builders/tuners. Now what is it... 2, 3?? At that event Whit Bazemore showed up towing his Chapparal trailer with a spare body strapped to the top.... cool stuff we'll never see again. There was also another top fuel team from Minnesota. All they ran was Brainerd, Topeka, and "if" they did good they might hit Denver or Indy.... back when a smallish group of guys could take a swing at the big boys and at least give it a try. cool stuff.

I hope they can make some sort of "comeback" in the pro stock ranks, but I have no idea how that would ever happen. Maybe some "pie in the sky" purses might help, but where is the money tree for that??

They are just beating a dead horse. Pull the plug already.

I attended the No Mercy race in Valdosta (SGMP) last October. Full house, full pits and lots of energy. This is the future. Class racing, as cool as it is, is the past. Pro Stock is a dinosaur.

Pro Stock is over its Pro Camaro going forward

It's "No Stock" now. C-ya

From the Freeman article below. This speaks volumes about what NHRA thinks of the class. So what's this fund the 17th and 18th Top Fuel cars? Non-qualifier money now?

In an unpublished adjustment to the purse, NHRA reportedly took $1,000 per round won and the winner, instead of getting the standard $25,000 has been reduced to $20,000. The money taken away is said to be going into the Top Fuel purse to fund the 17th and 18th entries.

A positive mental attitude won't fix Pro Stock just like EFI, no hood scoops and rev limits didn't fix Pro Stock.

Dave you can lease Derik Kramers Dart from last year. They will transport and supply HP. "Poor" mans way to run PS. He don't need the car since they are going to KB power and Camaro now..

BTW Freemans long time engine guy has left Freeman and will be starting his own engine shop soon..

I just thought it was interesting that they would sell "any of their" engines. I think NHRA already has had a lesson with this model and didn't learn a thing. Remember the "Import Nats."? The "Extreme Series"? There was also some interesting comments from guys at the bottom of the story...

the 10500 chip combined with EFI killed the Hemi more than anything else, it's a moot point now but if they would have delayed the stupid EFI/rev limit one more year the Elite mopars may have become competitive along with AJ and kept it somewhat interesting with at least some Mopar/Camaro Parity.

Ironically, I remember they said they implemented the 10.5K to lower costs and make things more competitive.....The hemi's higher HP cieling was it's only advantage so...there you go....I guess somebody really wanted it to be Pro Camaro after all.

If it were me, I'd toss the Cubic Inch limit and go back to some kind of LB/CI formula, or go Ballz to the wall and let's see some production based LS, Coyote and Hemis or even turbo V6's, or maybe small inch DRCE and Hemis and even some mountain motors....whatever!!! And let's at least see who gets creative. Pro mod is at least interesting because of the variety, so get some excitement back in the game and side by side and let it go back to the late 70's early 80's style 'Wild West' for a few years, Heck at least that would be interesting. That era of NHRA/IHRA (from say 75 to 85) was the most exciting and fun era of all pro stock.

too late to fix now, the ship has sailed. I no longer care

The rev limit had to be the stupidest rule ever! I mean, really? Why? What was the thought process there? Were Pro Stock cars throwing the rods out at the stripe?

Pro Stock is going to be like the IROC series : All the same car ( Camaro) just different paint job…. No Mopar=No interest…. just like Nascar

Agree

Got to do the Mid-West deal if your going to try to have any fun at Pro Stock... Just my 2 cents...

http://midwestnostalgiaprostockassociation.com/

It really upsets me that the NHRA takes money from the racers while the guys at the top pull down large six figure salaries and yet fail to do a good job.

I see NHRA changed some rules this week , They are now going to allow different manufactures engines in cars. So that means Ford and Mopar can be competitive again using rented Chevy engines from the Summit team. NHRA must think it works for the Funny car class it would work for Pro Stock. Do they really think that Ford or Mopar manufacture would put up money to sponsor a car with a Chevy engine in it?

It was the teams that requested this to happen. This removes the "aero advantage" or the " engine advantage"

The real reason will probably make everyone sick.

Freeman mentioned Toyota. Oh boy.

topside flipflopped the backside of the hindsite that didnot the whynot of the holeshot of the whatnot.

maybe they'll use the additional two lanes at LVMS for "no prep" during the national event

With Pro Stock going in the direction it has chosen I waited till the last day of the offered "All Access" discount to re-up. I enjoyed the heck out of it last year so I signed up again. Unlike many on here I still enjoy Top Fuel and Funny Car and with Pro Mod getting more and more popular that will be my Pro Stock replacement.

That would certainly keep the stands full. imagine Pro Stocks running against some of the faster Out Law boys side by side and Pro Stock looooooosing

wouldn't that be just hilarious.

LVMS will have 4 brand new lanes...not just 2.

Well, isn't that special; I can cross that track off the list of NHRA races I might attend. Heck, at this point I'm preferring nostalgia & bracket races; I'm still a Stock/SS fan, and enough of a Luddite that I love the "traditional" cars.

So because a track is going to a 4 wide format for ONE race that will get you to never attend. Makes me wonder how dedicated you were to going in the first place....And we wonder why drag racing is a dying sport. Maybe we should consider giving everyone a trophy next, they are already plenty close with all the Wally Races these days anyway. T

It's only 4 wide for 3 classes. Like Schumacher said, "it's Bruton Smith's track and if he wants us to do it, we'll do it." I got the feeling Sarge didn't like it either. In Vegas, they should run it like a horse race. Get the betting windows open...

If you like STK and SS then Vegas is the place to go to watch class eliminations. It was way better before the mistake of limited car counts.

I'm excited for the 4 wide out west.

I've wanted to see 4 wide fuelers as well. Seems like it's kind of a fad though, it would be cool for a race or two then... I'd rather see the regular 4 rounds. Pro Stock shouldn't be 4 wide ever. The racing is too close and good not to have 4 rounds of it.

I agree... and the one I have is a prime example. It should have come with winning the series championship I was running, not any old points race involved with it. While it is cool to have.... it certainly isn't held in as high of standard as that award should be.... and "yes" I realize there are different "Wallys". Mine is the "smally" and not bright gold like the "large" one we'd all like to have . With my style of racing (recreational), I really never expect to even be running for one. And the jr program..... don't get me started!!!


On the four lane deal.... I've been thinking about attending a national again. Been a long time, but I'm not paying out the whazoo to go to that s##t show. I hope it fills the seats for them, and draws more folks to the sport. I for one quit going because it's seemingly become more scripted than the "street outlaws" we've been discussing

Hey, Al - I've only been around it since the '60s, including fab work & my own cars. I just don't like 4-wide because I prefer to study 2 cars & how they get downtrack. If you were to read my previous posts here over the last several years, you'd see I've been pretty damn dedicated to the sport, though admittedly always wary of the NHRA.
I'm dead-set against anything like "trophies for everyone", and other marketing gimmicks.

Topside, Just trying to make a point and taking what you said at face value.

"I can cross that track off the list of NHRA races I might attend"

Since the track hosts two NHRA national events a year seems a bit drastic to just dismiss the track as a whole. Given that logic I assume you will never attend either race at Z Max dragway either. Seems kind of short sided for someone with a long history of supporting drag racing.

In retrospect, the Wally comment was not appropriate to aim at you. That was just me interjecting my opinion on one of the things I see wrong with NHRA.

Keep up the fight and support drag racing anyway you can. We are loosing racers at a rapid pace these days and they are not being replaced by younger racers. The guys I know here and replying to this thread are not spring chickens either. When they go who will be there to replace them.

OK, Al, maybe I should have singled out the 4-wide gimmick race. I feel that 4-wide reduces the ability to appreciate & dissect a contest, for the simpler and short-attention-span onslaught of sound & fury.
I'm just a traditionalist, and by nature bristle at "improvements" like 4-wide. And yes I know that at times in the distant past, other races were run 4-wide.
I agree with you about handing out Wallys like candy at Halloween; it tends to devalue the perception of those that were hard-won. I'm absolutely and vehemently opposed to "everyone gets a trophy", as in my mind it devalues success, and eventually, heroism.
My formative - and still cherished - experiences in & with drag racing were the golden years of Lions & other SoCal tracks, before the big money came in. I've said many times that while big money does allow people to turn pro & earn a living at their passion, it can come at a price that alters the sport in which they compete, so that the "Everyman" aspect is lost. That's why I said in another thread that I'm preferring nostalgia & bracket races.

I get to hear all the stories from the old days in SoCal when we race in Fontana with the heads up car, which wont happen anymore since NMCA West folded. When we run there we have Gary Hansen with us at every race and we go to dinner with he and he wife. He is a great guy who ran all those great SoCal tracks in the day and he often opines about them. But he also still builds Comp Stock and SS stuff so he appreciates the stuff now as well. When we have the rare occasion when Roland Leong with us the stories really start getting tall. I was not a drag race guy at all. The past is lost on me for the most part but listening to these guys talk about the glory days of SoCal drag racing it sure sounds fun. When Lambeck and Gary get together they have some awesome stories from the Pro Stock days back then that are epic..

I don't like the 4 wide stuff either. I have heard people who attend the events that it is hard for them to follow. Meaning people who are part of the traveling circus that follow them when I have had the opportunity to talk to them. But if it puts butt in the seats who am I to argue.

As for trophies, that mentality had a terrible affect on our society. There is not distinction for excellence anymore. I ran a Little League for five years and saw the affects. Why should anyone work hard if they all get rewarded the same. It just seems to get worse and worse over the passing years that they embrace the practive..I blame soccer myself

Oh yeah, the "golden era" had some hysterical times, and plenty of goings-on that would shock polite society. And like Smokey Yunick once said, the rulebook got a lot thicker because of those guys. I had the good fortune for a few years to be around Fuel guys, and some of the early FC racers, many of whom were at a whole 'nother level of insanity compared to "normal" people. But the racing was passionate & gritty & tightly knit in ways that seem mostly lost now.
Someday maybe I can tell those stories...

If they want to run 4 wide, let'em run it the way they USED TO - on a 2 wide strip. Let's see who has the stomach for it..

I raced at the old, original, Fontana Drag City 1/4 mile in the spring of 1964, flag starter four wide for most of the Sportman classes, not so for the 16 car Top Fuel feild They raced on both Saturday and Fridays, 20+ top fuel cars trying to qualify at every race This was before funny cars or pro Stock
Those where in the days of pushing starting the cars with no burn outs and smoking the rear tires the entire 1/4 mile
If you live long enough, you will get old also

They ran 4 wide at York many years ago. It's a gimmick. I've been to Charlotte. The only thing I can say about it is it's loud. Other than that, it looks like a cluster. BUT, I'll never run any of those classes and if it helps sell tickets, good for them

Back in the days when they had 32 car fueler fields, and line up the fuelers on the track apron and crank them all up at the same time... they did it on the east coast too in Division 1...

Damn Cab, maybe you should join the table with the some of the guys Al spoke of. Love to hear all of the past racing stuff that gets everyone laughing and amazed at the same time. I think us as racers in general think that 4-wide is kinda dumb for the racing part of it. Todays T/F and F/C's are the quickest things on the planet and a wonder in themselves. The power of 20 gallons of 100% through a 500" V8 is alien like. 4 of those suckers side by side would certainly rotate the earth a little faster. I bet even everyone in NHRA's traveling circus HAD to get out of their pit and go watch it at least once. I know I want to experience that at least once. For the shear explosiveness of it.

I’m in the boat with the guys that are happy watching 2 cars at a time. We used to be so close to the cars at tracks like Columbus and Norwalk that you could feel it in your chest

Sixpak...... That pic of the four slingshot fuelers is awesome!!!

All the old top fuelers I saw out here never had starters on them, they where all push started until Lions Drag Strip put in a set of rollers to start the cars on them. The old funny cars started their engine with electric starters spinning the blowers like today, which ended up on all blown cars
I remember helping push back a old top alcholol dragster at Fremont Drag strip at a division 7 points race back in the late 1970s after the burn out before they had to have reversers in them

Rollers. Never knew about them...

I never knew of such a thing

Englishtown had them... where the scale is now.

They had a set at Motion powered by a 392 Hemi.

Had to go back 25 pages to find this... 34 Pro Mods in Gainesville this weekend!

35. Bump is 5.87 after 2 sessions. #1 is 5.75. 16 Pro Stocks 6.52 to 7.10. I like Pro Stock, but dang.

I need better reading glasses

2 sessions and they've blown up 4 Fuel Coupes already, including Force. He's totaled a car at every race so far.

He is on a streak for sure

Wow, Crew chief should have been fired at phoenix.

At least they had a full field. If you want to call it that. I can think of a few other names.

Hector Arana Jr. goes 200 for the first time in PSM! Damn! I predicted years ago that it would happen at Sonoma...

Side by side kaboomers today. I think NHRA is inviting the demo-derby crowd.

I saw several NHRA adds on the FS1 T.V. show today showing Forces daughter crashing her Top Fuel car in Pomona and several other F.C. crashes and fires that have happen this year
Stupid puckey marketing in my opinion

Spend a couple hundred K to make a million. The American way...

Spend a couple million to make a hundred K?