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#2428176 - 01/03/18 04:09 AM Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger?
A12 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17969
Loc: N.E. OHIO, USA
Maybe I'm missing it but is there a higher performance V6 Pentastar engine like with a supercharger or dual turbo's or even a small block V8 like the 340 cubic inch (Hemi or not) that should be or could be in the current Challenger T/A? IMO the back in the day 340 small block was the best bang for the buck engine ever built. Best driving engine and car going especially in the Cuda, Challenger, Dart and Duster and just about anything else it was put in. Doesn't the Mustang have a high performance V6 supercharged engine. What's the reason for no Dodge high performance V6 or "small block"? Something with a 340 HP V6 to start with would be a great marketing angle. wink I want to help my young son get a performance Challenger but not wanting him to get a Hemi just yet and current V6 doesn't speak muscle car IMO. Why not an engine in the HP small block vein like back in the day?

Mike

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#2428177 - 01/03/18 04:43 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
EV2Bird Offline
No more politics

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 4333
Loc: Kansas Roads Between 0 and 140...
Im sure its simply just not profitable for them, many not wanting the current higher hp offering from the challengers or even chargers just need to look for a good 8-10 year old lesser powered car.

Past this small site here the penny think tankers kick around all they can.

One other thought, there are many other makers that make powerful V6 cars so it would half to be something really special and probably costly.

Maybe thats a idea before he steps up to a real car.


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#2428180 - 01/03/18 05:11 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: EV2Bird]
6bblgt Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 15518
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
they already have the bases covered, 2018 line-up is something like:

3.6L V6 305hp
+22%
5.7L HEMI 372hp
+30%
6.4L HEMI 485hp
+46%
6.2L HEMI 707hp
+18%
DEMON 835hp

an additional offering @ ~340hp isn't going to pay off in increased popularity twocents
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#2428185 - 01/03/18 05:57 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: 6bblgt]
A12 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17969
Loc: N.E. OHIO, USA
Dan I was basing my thoughts/question on the 285 HP PStar V6 engine which doesn't scream high performance like it should in a pony car.....shoot you can get that 285 HP engine in any Chrysler/Dodge MINI-VAN. Now it's a whopping 305 HP and still a MINI-VAN engine. The Challenger should have at least one higher performance V6 engine option. The V6 is lighter and could or should rev a little higher. My wife's SUV has a 302 HP V6 and probably will run pretty much even with that Mopar V6....just saying. Dodge has for the past decade tried to position itself as the PERFORMANCE brand for FCA and that lower or not higher performance MINI-VAN V6 in a Challenger just doesn't fit the brand position and image FCA is trying for. I bet FCA has a nice Alfa V6 that would work (kick butt) but I would rather see a Pentastar engine with a supercharger or two turbo's in a T/A Challenger with 340 HP or 360 HP.

Does the word HEMI demand a higher insurance cost for a young driver along with less MPG over a V6 as in "back in the day"?

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#2428187 - 01/03/18 06:10 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
not_a_charger Offline

Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 14210
Loc: Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
If the base 5.7 has 372 HP, and the base V6 has 305 hp, can you imagine the screaming and wailing and griping if they came out with a supercharged or twin turbo V6 that made only 340-360 HP? 340 = not enough over the base v6. 360 = might as well get a Hemi. I can't imagine there would be much demand for it, and I can't imagine that they'd want to put out a power adder-equipped V6 that makes more HP than the Hemi does, for brand image/marketing reasons if nothing else.

Quote:
Doesn't the Mustang have a high performance V6 supercharged engine.


Mustang has the twin-turbo 4 cylinder EcoBoost. Lebanon Ford sells a 550 hp version of it. boogie
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#2428189 - 01/03/18 06:51 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: not_a_charger]
A12 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17969
Loc: N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted By not_a_charger
If the base 5.7 has 372 HP, and the base V6 has 305 hp, can you imagine the screaming and wailing and griping if they came out with a supercharged or twin turbo V6 that made only 340-360 HP? 340 = not enough over the base v6. 360 = might as well get a Hemi. I can't imagine there would be much demand for it, and I can't imagine that they'd want to put out a power adder-equipped V6 that makes more HP than the Hemi does, for brand image/marketing reasons if nothing else.

Quote:
Doesn't the Mustang have a high performance V6 supercharged engine.


Mustang has the twin-turbo 4 cylinder EcoBoost. Lebanon Ford sells a 550 hp version of it. boogie


What about a young driver and a HEMI engine for insurance, does it matter? As far as a slight difference in HP rating between one model or another model that difference has been done many times it was just to make the performance model a little different from the other models in that line. A 383 Road Runner with 5 HP more than a Sport Satellite still made a difference to the owner and the same goes for having one more turbo in your Mustang 4-cylinder versus the single turbo in Edge. If the AWD Challenger GT came with a higher performance V6 it would be a deal maker for me and I'd bet for a lot of other Northern buyers. Won't buy it with a base V6 and it will probably never see it with a Hemi. The Pentastar V6 engine is a base V6 for every application from Ram pickup to a Chrysler Town and Country and nothing special in a Challenger......Mustang/Ford has it figured out if a performance engine is specific to that model or any other performance model. I'm sure there are many engines that are available for other brands that have performance tweaks to base engines for performance models that only add a few horsepower to make them "HP" models just like "HP" stamped on the EAD pad on a Road Runner. Just takes a little like camshafts, titanium valves, engine management, injectors, throttle body, exhaust.......or we can just go on and say, yeah that the same V6 as in the MINI-VAN to the Mustang guys thumbs

Was just a question but if "bold new graphics and stripes" are what the performance guys are looking for because they can't afford the $10k to $20k step up to a Hemi then so be it. Funny that's the same reason there are fewer old back in the day Hemi cars than 340 or 383 around because few could afford the OMG $814 Hemi engine option. All it took were 3X2 carbs, a special cam and a few tuning parts and the 340 T/A-TAA's and 440 A12's sold enough to add to the Mopar performance image package.

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#2428196 - 01/03/18 07:31 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
EV2Bird Offline
No more politics

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 4333
Loc: Kansas Roads Between 0 and 140...
I think your gonna have to accept its 2018, not 1978.

Things change and it is what it is, I recently seen the stats on young drivers and accidents/death and its very concerning.

Whats wrong with a younger driver starting out in a non performance vehicle thats safe for everyone?

Didnt most of us have to earn our way to the better/faster cars?

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#2428206 - 01/03/18 08:16 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
grancuda Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 858
Loc: Central US
The real question is why does the current Dodge Challenger T/A have a Plymouth hood on it?
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1969 Dart Custom 2dr HT 440
1972 D1oo SWB 360
1980 Macho Power Wagon LWB 318
2010 Ford Raptor 6.2L

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#2428211 - 01/03/18 08:31 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: grancuda]
EV2DEMON Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6508
Loc: Indiana
Incidentally, Ford has dropped the V6 from the Mustang lineup for 2018, leaving only the following power options:

2.3 Ecoboost 310 HP

5.0 GT 460 HP

5.2 Shelby 526 HP

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#2428233 - 01/03/18 09:22 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
3hundred Offline
master

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 4842
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By A12
I want to help my young son get a performance Challenger but not wanting him to get a Hemi just yet and current V6 doesn't speak muscle car IMO. Why not an engine in the HP small block vein like back in the day?

Mike


The current V6 gives excellent account of itself vs the old 340 Challenger.

From Motor Trend Our tester went from 0-60 mph in 6 seconds flat, an improvement over the 2011 Challenger Rallye’s 6.4-second run. In the quarter-mile, the Challenger whizzed through in 14.5 seconds with a trap speed of 96.9 mph

Not quite as good as the older V6 6 speed Mustang @ 13.7 101 MPH but not bad for a heavy weight either.

With the exception of not having Hemi badges I think the base V6 is pretty muscular looking? Really not seeing a missed marketing opportunity here.

Robert
_________________________
'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'93 Ramcharger 5.7 Hemi
'93 Ramcharger 318 sold
'01 3500 4x4 Cummins 6 speed
'13 300 S sold
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi

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#2428243 - 01/03/18 09:45 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: 3hundred]
Neil Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12882
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
Challenger is big and heavy so it needs torque. Easy to get that with a larger & simpler engine.

V6 and 4 cyl engines just don't sound great compared to a V8.

These cars are owner by boomers here so you'd have a hard time selling a non-V8 performance car to that group. They'll buy the biggest engine sold every time as that is what a musclecar is about to most in that group. Guys who don't care about drag racing and want nimble handling and economy will buy a foreign car instead.

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#2428282 - 01/03/18 11:08 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: Neil]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9618
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
iagree

You really can't make a new Challenger lighter.....you can just make it 'Less Heavy'
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2428293 - 01/03/18 11:31 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
Orange_Crush Offline
Belieber!

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 17964
Loc: Charlotte, NC
There IS a Pentastar twin turbo (of sorts) out there. It's a 3 liter version with Ferrari heads. Unfortunately, you can't get it in the Challenger. It powers these things:


Attachments
Ghibli.jpg

maserati-levante.jpg


_________________________
1970 Dodge Charger R/T Hemi Orange U-code 4-speed
1971 Jaguar E-Type Series 3 V-12 4-speed 2+2 Signal Red.

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#2428301 - 01/03/18 11:43 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
Evil Spirit Offline
master

Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 3690
Loc: Newport, Mi
Friend bought a 2016 V6 AWD Charger for his wife and it is a lot of fun to drive. We keep trying to sneak it out to the track on a TnT nite, but she keeps the car on a pretty short leash.
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#2428305 - 01/03/18 11:48 AM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: Neil]
Orange_Crush Offline
Belieber!

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 17964
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted By Neil
Challenger is big and heavy so it needs torque. Easy to get that with a larger & simpler engine.

V6 and 4 cyl engines just don't sound great compared to a V8.


I respectfully (but VERY strongly) disagree:

Sixes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2OlsCu1tfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_042hai0TSQ

Four

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3nND-x-X2E&t=140s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLrAgcCNgVc
_________________________
1970 Dodge Charger R/T Hemi Orange U-code 4-speed
1971 Jaguar E-Type Series 3 V-12 4-speed 2+2 Signal Red.

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#2428353 - 01/03/18 01:02 PM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
stumpy Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 29495
Loc: Grand Prairie,Texas
Those don't sound any where near as good as a V8. Just buzz bombs. Sorry.

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#2428358 - 01/03/18 01:12 PM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: Streetwize]
340SIX Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 25285
Loc: Mardi Gras-Land
Originally Posted By Streetwize
iagree

You really can't make a new Challenger lighter.....you can just make it 'Less Heavy'

That was easy with my 1972 and 1971.
It was an easy conversion, Told my Mother In Law she was needed to get out!
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73 Dart Sport 340/ 70 challenger vert. That may still get built, If I live long enough

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#2428376 - 01/03/18 02:15 PM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: Orange_Crush]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9871
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Originally Posted By Orange_Crush
Originally Posted By Neil
Challenger is big and heavy so it needs torque. Easy to get that with a larger & simpler engine.

V6 and 4 cyl engines just don't sound great compared to a V8.


I respectfully (but VERY strongly) disagree:

Sixes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2OlsCu1tfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_042hai0TSQ

Four

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3nND-x-X2E&t=140s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLrAgcCNgVc


I painfully watched those videos and heard nothing but honda accords with the mufflers rusted off and weedeaters
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#2428377 - 01/03/18 02:21 PM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: HotRodDave]
Neil Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12882
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
Large and in charge American muscle cars MUST have the sound only a V8 can produce.

Like so..... smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ePczeI8RM

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#2428407 - 01/03/18 03:15 PM Re: Why not a "small block" current T/A Challenger? [Re: A12]
sp392 Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 8992
Loc: Etobicoke
They already offer the T/A with the 5.7 and the 392. They aren't all 392's.


Edited by sp392 (01/03/18 03:15 PM)

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