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#2428082 - 01/02/18 09:38 PM Future of Gen III
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 4019
Loc: Canada

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#2428091 - 01/02/18 09:52 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24197
Loc: Texas
It's very overdue for DOHC and/or Direct Injection...
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#2428096 - 01/02/18 10:09 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 4019
Loc: Canada
Direct Injection/Dual Injection for sure. Not sold on the DOHC, with the short stiff pushrods and fantastic head flow they seem fine there

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#2428103 - 01/02/18 10:31 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 283
Loc: Usa
All it says was "allpar was told"...but by who?

I don't doubt a new powerplant is underway with the ever progressing fuel and emissions standards. Probably par for the course of all manufacturers.

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#2428112 - 01/02/18 10:52 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 4019
Loc: Canada
Allpars been pretty dead nuts accurate with its predictions and sources so far

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#2428118 - 01/02/18 11:07 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2287
Loc: NorCal
They should make it an aluminum block as standard. Less weight would help with fuel efficiency
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#2428142 - 01/02/18 11:52 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: RylisPro]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 9056
Loc: Charleston
Originally Posted By RylisPro
They should make it an aluminum block as standard. Less weight would help with fuel efficiency


Exactly

How about making a challenger 7-10% smaller. The damn things are huge
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#2428174 - 01/03/18 02:52 AM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
EagleDuster Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/17
Posts: 24
Loc: Northern Colorado
YES. I hope they keep the 2-valve layout or they really won't be able to get away with calling it a Hemi anymore, purists still whine the Gen 3 isn't a "true" hemi (yeah whatever)

If they ever get around to it, the next Challenger is supposed to be on a smaller platform shared with the Alfa Giulia. Maybe they're waiting for this new smaller Hemi to get developed so they can use that, Hmmmmmm wink

They should make an aluminum-block version in a throwback 5.2L, would give new meaning to "smoking Mustangs with a 318" heehee
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#2428193 - 01/03/18 07:14 AM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 1028
Loc: Trumbauersville PA
Dual over head cam similar to the LT5 but cross flow valve head, like the modern Hemi, 4.7/5.2ish 2020/2022 4.0-4.25 bore spacing.




Would be a logical next step. smile

The power Tech 4.7 was going to grow to a Dual Cam, 5.2 before DC started to have money issues.

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#2432405 - 01/10/18 05:04 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: ric3xrt]
dogdays Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16055
Take a look at the Ford 6.2. Single overhead cam, looks like Hemi valve layout except with a camshaft in the middle where the spark plugs are on the Hemi.
I drove one for 750 miles recently and it is a beautiful sounding engine which tachs right up to 5500rpm redline with no pushrod fuss. I know I will be sandblasted for this, but I just love the sound of that engine around 4000 rpm. Maybe if the rental company had had Dodges I'd be saying the same things about the Hemi, but regardless that 6.2 is a keeper. Slap one in where a 390 used to sit and it'd work wonders.

R.


Attachments
Ford6.2.jpg



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#2432479 - 01/10/18 07:13 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9681
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
they make less HP (385HP) than a smaller 5.7 hemi (395 hp) with all of its "pushrod fuss" I don't get the ferd fuss I guess and they have the same junk cam phasers that start dying around 125,000 that the 5.4 pile o junks had in a nightmare package to work on so I'll pass a 6.2 in more than one ways.
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#2432548 - 01/10/18 09:04 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
EagleDuster Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/17
Posts: 24
Loc: Northern Colorado
5500 RPM redline in the Ford 6.2L and it's SOHC? What's the point? That's the same as a 5.7 Hemi with those 'antiquated' pushrods...
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1970 Plymouth Duster, 1993 Jeep Cherokee 4x4

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#2432813 - 01/11/18 11:43 AM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: EagleDuster]
dogdays Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16055
I knew that my comments would not go un-carped upon. Did I use the word "antiquated" anywhere?

I don't give a poop about cam phaser problems, I am not buying a ford pickup. Obviously if one wanted to build a hotrod version of the engine the redline would be higher. So what? So pushrods work to 11,000rpm. So what?

You guys fire off comments without doing the research. That's your right, but it doesn't make you more knowledgeable.

The original question was which direction would a new version of the Hemi go. My suggestion was that it might go in the direction of the 6.2, as the rocker arm arrangement of that engine very closely resembled the rocker arm arrangement of a Hemi or, for that matter a Toyota 20R.

The reason I was familiar with this is my recent trip in a new pickup that had the 6.2, which was quite impressive to my 318-powered self. And I figured out that the engine was OHC from inside the cab, from the sounds it was or wasn't making.

End of rebuttal.

R.

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#2432845 - 01/11/18 12:53 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: EagleDuster]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 12929
Originally Posted By EagleDuster
5500 RPM redline in the Ford 6.2L and it's SOHC? What's the point? That's the same as a 5.7 Hemi with those 'antiquated' pushrods...


How about you take off your socks and count up the number of moving parts in a SOHC vs a pushrod V8 valve train.

Then ponder the inertial mass involved in each and recall that a lighter valve train can be opened and closed quicker allowing more area under the curve.

Then think about that pushrod pinch in the LA intake track and it's complete lack in a SOHC design.

Want to keep playing?

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#2432848 - 01/11/18 01:06 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
sp392 Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 8992
Loc: Etobicoke
The 392 is getting a revision before 2021, supposedly for 2019. I wonder if it'll finally crack the 500 mark. It would also be cool if they made it the highest output NA V8 but I believe the flat plane Ford holds that right now @ 526.

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#2432851 - 01/11/18 01:11 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9681
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
how bout the 400ft of timing chains that inevitably stretch over time and are expensive and complicated to replace (think 4.7 dodge, 5.4 ferds, 427SOHC ferds, 5.7 tundras...) there is a whole plethora of engines plauged by that insanely long chain requirement. And as a bonus the extra valves and everything still don't help the head flow anymore than an apache/hellcat/BGE head.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


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#2433095 - 01/11/18 07:51 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 12929
400ft of timing chain, get real. If it's all that complicated and intimidating then retire.

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#2433141 - 01/11/18 09:14 PM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: WO23Coronet]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9681
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
I do em for a living and see the look in peoples eyes when you tell em how much its gonna cost to fix that garbage without even having high miles on em. They cost twice as much and don't last near as long with no benefit, especially in a truck engine. Sorry but its just a cool novelty that ain't worth the cost in a production type engine.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


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#2433240 - 01/12/18 03:27 AM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: dogdays]
EagleDuster Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/17
Posts: 24
Loc: Northern Colorado
Originally Posted By dogdays
I knew that my comments would not go un-carped upon. Did I use the word "antiquated" anywhere?

I don't give a poop about cam phaser problems, I am not buying a ford pickup. Obviously if one wanted to build a hotrod version of the engine the redline would be higher. So what? So pushrods work to 11,000rpm. So what?

You guys fire off comments without doing the research. That's your right, but it doesn't make you more knowledgeable.

The original question was which direction would a new version of the Hemi go. My suggestion was that it might go in the direction of the 6.2, as the rocker arm arrangement of that engine very closely resembled the rocker arm arrangement of a Hemi or, for that matter a Toyota 20R.

The reason I was familiar with this is my recent trip in a new pickup that had the 6.2, which was quite impressive to my 318-powered self. And I figured out that the engine was OHC from inside the cab, from the sounds it was or wasn't making.

End of rebuttal.

R.


Sorry I wasn't actually trying to argue with you though I guess it did sound that way, my comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular and I do get your point. I'm simply saying if Ford went through all the development to make a SOHC truck engine why does it only rev to 5500 RPM? And have basically the same output as an engine half a liter smaller in displacement (5.7 Hemi)? It's like the modular engines, with all the advanced technology they had they should have been on another level vs. GM and Chrysler but were basically mediocre throughout their entire run. They had all the problems of modern engine technology with no real advantages over the competition. I don't think the 6.2 is a "bad" engine I'm just disappointed it can't do more (and yes I know Ford has the special high-output version as an option on the Raptor).

Pushrod arrangement does create a lot of extra heat at high RPMs and has more friction but it keeps big-displacement engines more compact and lighter. I just feel like with pushrod engines like the Hemi and LS being as good as they are, any future V8 from Chrysler or GM that does have OHC better take full advantage of it and really raise the bar. Or at least just Chrysler lol


Edited by EagleDuster (01/12/18 03:34 AM)
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Khalid
1970 Plymouth Duster, 1993 Jeep Cherokee 4x4

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#2433241 - 01/12/18 03:33 AM Re: Future of Gen III [Re: HotRodDave]
EagleDuster Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/17
Posts: 24
Loc: Northern Colorado
Originally Posted By HotRodDave
I do em for a living and see the look in peoples eyes when you tell em how much its gonna cost to fix that garbage without even having high miles on em. They cost twice as much and don't last near as long with no benefit, especially in a truck engine. Sorry but its just a cool novelty that ain't worth the cost in a production type engine.


That's how I see it, using technology so on paper you're keeping up with the industry but in practical use there is no real benefit. And apparently a few fatal drawbacks.
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1970 Plymouth Duster, 1993 Jeep Cherokee 4x4

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