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#2426427 - 12/31/17 01:51 PM The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ?
plumcrazycuda Offline
top fuel

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1713
Loc: PA
I am finally ready to pull the trigger on my building. If you can tell me what you would of done different or what you are glad you did when building your building ?
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#2426467 - 12/31/17 02:12 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96644
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Taller doors. To fit a high top van, or small motorhome. Higher rafters to clear the car lift better. The salesman didn't seem to know a lot about that when I asked.

Have heating installed along with the financing of the garage.

Also you might think about what I did. I had a car entry installed in the rear so I can drive thru without having to back up the 50' length of the building, which I did for 8 years before reducing the size of the puppy yard after getting Cherokee so I could once again drive around the house.
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Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2426480 - 12/31/17 02:20 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
Neil Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12875
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
I once helped a guy out with the drawings for a garage/studio using pole barn framing and could not figure out why you would want to expose the wood support structure to the soil. If it ever rots how would you fix it?

In this area if you see anyone who has a separate garage or shop in the back yard it's typically built the same way the house is except it has a concrete floor slab instead of wood floor joists and a crawl space.

Also seen guys pour their own slab on grade floor and then buy a metal building "kit" and install it on top. Those go up fast, but don't know what the costs are.


Edited by Neil (12/31/17 02:21 PM)

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#2426516 - 12/31/17 02:49 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
astjp2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 4174
Loc: Utah and Alaska
In floor heat using a hot water tank and lots of pex. Paint the floor BEFORE you move in. Insulate, insulate, insulate! Also build the largest building you can afford. I am trying to get a 50x80x16 in my back yard this summer. Tim
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#2426527 - 12/31/17 02:56 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 42116
Loc: Spokane Washington
*Build as large as you possibly can, never too big, always too small
*Build a floor drain into the concrete
*Radiant heat floors are ABSOLUTELY worth the cost in a cold climate
*Highest and widest doors allowable (14' minimum will allow pretty much any motor home, etc.)
*Commercial trusses for safer second story storage weight and snow load capacity
*Commercial style walls (6-8" wide horizontal gerts) for deeper roll in insulation
*The most insulation you can afford on walls and cielings

That's the big stuff, when you get into finish work there's a whole other list
.02



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#2426579 - 12/31/17 03:43 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
topside Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12564
Loc: So Near, Yet So Far
All good advice so far, having built several of them. Scott's place is a work-palace, very well done.
Agonize over, and plan, ingress/egress (drive-throughs are great if you have room), lift placement, storage vs parking vs parts space.
Measurements that take advantage of common or sheet sizes, less work & expense.
110V Power outlets along walls, maybe 8' apart. Multiple 220V outlets.
Ceiling fan to redirect warm air down.
Avoid snowfall coming off roof in front of doors if at all possible.
Haunt your local Home Depot for sales on windows & such; from cancelled orders you can get the stuff for a fraction of its retail price.
Air compressor placement that won't drive you nuts or bother neighbors, and proper wall piping & outlets will reduce having hoses all over.

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#2426611 - 12/31/17 04:28 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4538
Loc: fredericksburg,va
One thing I regret after getting mine built (40-60 National Pole Barn) was not doing a room truss. I had assumed only a 4-12 pitch roof was available, after it was done I mentioned the room truss, then the workers said, yea we have done quite a few. The company asked a lot of questions but not that.
They used plastic sleaves on all the 6x6 & 6x8 posts up to one ft out of ground, no dirt to post contact. Make sure the building is square, I had to rack mine back about 4 inches. I kept the cable tight till I had the 4x8 plywood ceiling up (I think 66 sheets). Make it at least 12 ft ceilings, 14 is better but harder to heat. Make the doors match up from end to end for drive through. Use good lighting. Two 110 window AC units cool in the summer and an 130,000 btu oil furnace for the winter. Got down to 32 in there yesterday, first time I left it on at nite ever (ten years). Get an alarm,motion detectors and cameras that hook into your I phone in real time. Nice to say, get the hell off my property, while you're at work.

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#2426612 - 12/31/17 04:28 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
savoy64 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1831
Loc: colorado
get a concrete grinder and polish the floor with it----better than any sealer or paint

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#2426633 - 12/31/17 04:49 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 42116
Loc: Spokane Washington
Quote:
get a concrete grinder and polish the floor with it----better than any sealer or paint


A polished floor will still soak up oil, sealer helps but won't work on long term oil leaks etc. Use the best sealer money can buy. .02

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#2426643 - 12/31/17 05:01 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
ruderunner Offline


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 1981
Loc: ohio
High ceilings in case you want a lift later

Ceiling fans to push the heat down

I went r30 in walls and ceilings.

Drywall that's been taped to keep the heat in.

Big doors, I went 10w*12h

Loft storage is ok but a hassle with high ceilings, I don't use mine.

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#2426648 - 12/31/17 05:12 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: savoy64]
peabodyracing Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 1983
Loc: Minnesota
Top already mentioned snow in front of doors. Let me expand on that a bit based on my own experience.

Don't bother with sliding doors if you can avoid them. Tough to secure and seal well for heating and just keeping crap from blowing in over time.

If you have to go with a sliding door, and it's along the eaves side of the building, you'll find snow slides off the roof, freezes and renders the door useless till things thaw, or you go out and try and chip it free. Regardless of where it's placed, you're out there all the time trying to keep the snow from accumulating where the door needs to slide.

I had double sliding doors along the 'long' side of my last pole barn, built well before I bought the place. They were great for getting big things in and out. Once winter set in, there was no hope of getting them open again.

One July a very bad storm hit. Still some debate on whether it actually was a tornado or not. The winds blew the double doors in and literally lifted 138' feet of pole barn in the air, dropping the roof and one wall 300' feet away. It took out my barn roof on the way by. Took me forever to clean up the debris. I'm convinced had those doors not been there the building would have survived just fine.

Any time I'll build one in the future it will have good quality, roll up doors on it, and definitely one at each end.

Pay attention to how the builder secures the trusses to the poles. I've seen some very well done and one where they literally just nailed the truss to the side of the poles. I wondered about snow load capabilities when it's just a bunch of nails holding things together.

Finally, I would insist they use screws with gaskets to secure all panels on the outside. Years back I had a builder who insisted on nailing the roof panels but use screws on the sides. After 2-3 years I round myself walking the roof every couple years to try and reseal nails that have moved over time, allowing a leak. I wish I'd insisted on his using screws.

Just thought of another caution: the ridge vent approach. If you're not sealing the place up and heating it, you may be tempted to go with the clear plastic (or the opaque)vent a ridge. Selling point is lots of natural light and great ventilation.

If this is the case, I went with the clear plastic which was supposed to last forever, and the foam vented seals running along the gap between the cap and the roof sheeting.

The place has been up 10 years now and the plastic is failing badly. On windy, snowy days, snow makes it in through the foam seals and I find a line of snow the full length of the barn from 1/8" to 1" deep depending on total snow fall. This tends to get me excited when I've cars parked down the center of the building.

In summer, on warm days, the sun beating in builds up more heat inside the building than I'd like. I find myself keeping the cars covered to protect them from UV, even though they're inside. Seems stupid.

In spring I am tearing it all up and redoing it with something better.

Good luck with the project. Fun to watch them go up!



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#2426671 - 12/31/17 05:45 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
1971 Gran Coupe Offline


Registered: 02/10/14
Posts: 1018
Loc: Washington/Las Vegas
Scott covered the major items for sure and I would definitely do what ever it takes to get in floor heating and can be used for cooling if designed that way. I would have put a man door on each end of the structure. I have 2 doors with a provision for a third on the one end, but neglected the small walk door.

Most codes require treated wood where it comes in contact with the ground, so that is an easy to do. Install the wall girts horizontal instead of vertical so you can flush the wall with the posts and have a full 6" of wall insulation.

Some cover the wall with OSB, some with drywall, and some use both, osb first for strength, then drywall over the osb for fire protection.

I did install a 2 ton mini split for ac and it works great. It is a heat pump as well, but when it hits around 35, it is not very efficient.

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#2426672 - 12/31/17 05:48 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
LTDan Online   content


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 12798
Loc: Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
I put my building up about 10 years ago, its a 30X40 from Carter Lumber.

I regret not doing high enough ceilings for a lift. As I'm aging, I realize more and more that crawling around underneath cars really sucks.

A water line would have been nice too.

I am really happy that I put enough power to run an exhaust fan, a welder and an air compressor
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#2426680 - 12/31/17 06:03 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
lilcuda Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 356
Loc: Northern California
Spend some time on the Garage Journal forum. Tons of info there.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/

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#2426684 - 12/31/17 06:07 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: Neil]
oldjonny Offline
top fuel

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 2055
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By Neil
I once helped a guy out with the drawings for a garage/studio using pole barn framing and could not figure out why you would want to expose the wood support structure to the soil. If it ever rots how would you fix it?

In this area if you see anyone who has a separate garage or shop in the back yard it's typically built the same way the house is except it has a concrete floor slab instead of wood floor joists and a crawl space.

Also seen guys pour their own slab on grade floor and then buy a metal building "kit" and install it on top. Those go up fast, but don't know what the costs are.


EXACTLY...there is a guy here in Michigan that makes a living fixing pole structures where the wood has rotted out below grade. It cost more, but I did block walls 4' up and then stick built. Did not want to deal with a rotten structure. The 'quality' of todays treated lumber would definitely make me not want to use it.
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#2426695 - 12/31/17 06:27 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: 1971 Gran Coupe]
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96644
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Originally Posted By 1971 Gran Coupe
Scott covered the major items for sure and I would definitely do what ever it takes to get in floor heating and can be used for cooling if designed that way. I would have put a man door on each end of the structure. I have 2 doors with a provision for a third on the one end, but neglected the small walk door.

Yup. 2 people doors, one on the back end. One on the side sorta in line with the house door. I don't need one on the front end.

The 2 front vehicle roll up doors are 16' wide each. They take up almost all of the 40' width of the building. The 1 rear roll up door is 20' wide. There is plenty of room in the corner for the bigger air compressor. Also along that side of the building is where I have all my big equipment - sand blaster, drill press, solvent tank, table, shelves. The smaller air compressor is in the corner where the people door is. The people door is right next to the vehicle door, leaving the whole corner for stuff and junk, refrigerator, and shelving. That side of the garage is where I have shelves, desk, tool boxes on rollaways, etc.


Attachments
inside 1.jpg

rear.jpg

outside front.jpg




Edited by amxautox (12/31/17 06:39 PM)
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Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2426704 - 12/31/17 06:36 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 42116
Loc: Spokane Washington
Agreed, I have two 18' wide doors, one at each send inline with each other, and one 12' door on the long wall facing the house so you can drive straight in from the street. I use the street facing door the most but having both ends openable makes a HUGE difference when needed.

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#2426708 - 12/31/17 06:43 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: amxautox]
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96644
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
I also wired the 2 lights over the vehicles in from the front doors on their own switch. When the doors are open, those lights are worthless, so didn't want them on when the 'second bay' lights are on, which I use almost all the time, but very seldom use the 2 lights over the vehicles in the first bay. The center light in the first bay is wired into the second bay's lights. Each bay has it's own switch for the lights.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2426735 - 12/31/17 07:13 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9686
Loc: W. Kentucky
I built mine in 07, 36 X 54 with 12' walls, two overhead doors 10 X 10 and 10 X 12w and two man doors, small bathroom and office, 26 T8 4' lights in the shop area on four circuits, plenty of receptacles. It's insulated but has no ceiling, the overhead doors are insulated steel industrial quality. It also is heated and has A/C. I also framed up 8' walls between the posts and covered with blandex that is painted white.

Things I would've done different.
Installed radiant heat in the floor.
Installed a ceiling, white metal.
All receptacles would be 4' off the floor.
Added welder plugs on the other end of the shop
Built bigger!

I'm thinking about adding 24 X 36 and it's going to cost almost as much as the original building cost in 07. I have the roof metal to build a 20' shed the full length of the building but haven't done it yet.

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#2426737 - 12/31/17 07:13 PM Re: The do’s and don’ts when building a pole building ? [Re: plumcrazycuda]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4538
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Use conduit wiring, easy to change or add on. I have 36 4 gang recepticals around the walls #12 wire, all on ground faults, either# 8 or 10 for the 220, welders-compressors. #4 (might be bigger) going to the 50 hp roto-phase converter for 3 phase (made a panel box for that). Vepco wanted $34,000 to run me 3 phase, not! from a 10,000 volt 3ph line on my property 250 ft away! Make sure you have at least 200 amp coming in with its own meter, not off the house.


Edited by cudaman1969 (12/31/17 07:17 PM)

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