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#2425458 - 12/29/17 03:49 PM Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor?
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
I'm looking for some pics of BB Isky Red Zone lifters with the EZ roll option..... Specifically the oil feed holes for the bushings.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425602 - 12/29/17 10:49 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
dvw Offline
master

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 7172
Loc: MI, usa
Mine are in the motor. However with a standard base circle cam the small oil feed holes are about .040" below the bottom of the lifter bore in my mega block.
Doug

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#2425608 - 12/29/17 11:03 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: dvw]
Jeremiah Offline
master

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 8112
Loc: Rogue River, OR
Doug do your intake lifters use an offset pushrod cup?

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#2425741 - 12/30/17 09:49 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
dvw Offline
master

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 7172
Loc: MI, usa
Yes offset on the intakes. Found this drawing I made and a pic of one out of the motor.
Doug


Attachments
2017-12-30 09.48.34.jpg

2017-12-30 09.47.14.jpg



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#2425757 - 12/30/17 10:15 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Thanks for the pics.

For some reason I thought they had pressure fed oiling to the axles, but apparently it's just splash oiling.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425766 - 12/30/17 10:30 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: dvw]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
The ISKY lifters DO HAVE an oiling hole very similar in placement, on the lower band edge, as the Comp lifters. I can text you a pic if you wish.

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#2425771 - 12/30/17 10:39 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
I have a customer who I recently got some Red Zones for.

Apparently hey have changed the body design. They no longer have an oil band, but rather two relief cuts, one on the front, one on the rear...... Which do not intersect the oil gallery...... And he says there are no oil holes in the relief cuts(and even if there were, since the reliefs aren't connected to the gallery, I don't know how much good they would do).
The only oil holes are located directly above the axles.

Sean, if you could post or send a pic of some with the pressure feed holes, that would be great.

The ones my customer has look like this:


Attachments
image.jpg


_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425791 - 12/30/17 11:09 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
BSB67 Offline
master

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 3596
Loc: Prospect, PA
Those are the same as mine.
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500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes 4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter 11.68 @ 120.2 mph

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#2425801 - 12/30/17 11:19 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: BSB67]
Jeremiah Offline
master

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 8112
Loc: Rogue River, OR
Picture courtesy of HardcoreB:


Attachments
2017123095111306.jpg



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#2425806 - 12/30/17 11:22 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Okay great..... Thanks.

Do those only have that feed hole from the band, or is there also a hole above the axle?
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425812 - 12/30/17 11:30 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: Jeremiah]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Now I am seeing THREE different versions of the same lifter from ISKY. Mine have the same body but have a different oiling hole location as the ones Doug is using. There is no way a bushing will survive without a pressure/suspension feed. I remember having some confusion in talking with Doug about his lifter oiling 'problem' now the pic shows me why. But fwiw he is having success with his system now...he likely just had a bad lifter. Dewayne I text you a pic..did you get it?

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#2425814 - 12/30/17 11:31 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Okay great..... Thanks.

Do those only have that feed hole from the band, or is there also a hole above the axle?

ONLY in the band, NOT perpendicular above the wheel.

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#2425819 - 12/30/17 11:43 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
It's really early in the discovery process at this point, but my customer has had an issue with his cam/lifter situation.
It may end up being like the "chicken and the egg"..... As to which was the cause of the problem.......but I was pretty surprised to learn his lifters didn't have any way to pressure feed the bushings.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425826 - 12/30/17 11:50 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
It's really early in the discovery process at this point, but my customer has had an issue with his cam/lifter situation.
It may end up being like the "chicken and the egg"..... As to which was the cause of the problem.......but I was pretty surprised to learn his lifters didn't have any way to pressure feed the bushings.

But they DO...the hole above the axle is hydraulically feed via the wall clearance between the body and the bore. If it makes the builder feel any more confident you could groove a channel on the bore connecting the two feed holes.

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#2425834 - 12/30/17 11:56 AM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: HardcoreB]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By HardcoreB
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
It's really early in the discovery process at this point, but my customer has had an issue with his cam/lifter situation.
It may end up being like the "chicken and the egg"..... As to which was the cause of the problem.......but I was pretty surprised to learn his lifters didn't have any way to pressure feed the bushings.

But they DO...the hole above the axle is hydraulically feed via the wall clearance between the body and the bore. If it makes the builder feel any more confident you could groove a channel on the bore connecting the two feed holes.

Doug is having luck using the lifter in the same way, with no groove AND the orifice actually drops below the feeding bore while on base circle. I would feel better with a small groove personally. and if you had to bush the block a longer bushing fully enclosing the lifter feed area would help too maintain constant feed pressure. IMO!!! lol

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#2425843 - 12/30/17 12:06 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
On my customers motor, the oil hole above the axle is only in the bore for about the last .125 of lift.
It's pretty far removed from the "source" of the oil, and rotated 90deg from it.

The hole is exposed to the crankcase most of the time.

This really doesn't seem to be a very effective way of oiling the bushing....... And maybe they don't need much oil.
But we have a problem with this motor, and it's going to require a little more investigation to see if we can get to the cause of the problem.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425851 - 12/30/17 12:16 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
On my customers motor, the oil hole above the axle is only in the bore for about the last .125 of lift.
.....

The hole is exposed to the crankcase most of the time.

This really doesn't seem to be a very effective way of oiling the bushing....... And maybe they don't need much oil. YES THEY DO

I feel strongly that is the problem...you wont see an engine clamshell bearing live under these compromised feed conditions and they are subject to much less 'localized' loading.

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#2425859 - 12/30/17 12:26 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
That's my position as well, but the Isky literature has claims about how "oil restrictor" friendly the bushings are, and the super hard material, etc....... So I'm leaving the door open for another explanation.

I feel the bushings in this motor failed because of a lack of adequate lubrication.
That's what I'm going with unless I hear a good argument to the contrary.

The cam will go back to Comp, the lifters back to Isky...... See what that they come up with.

This is far from any type of "extreme" application either....... .430 lobe lift, 1.5 rockers, 600lbs open pressure.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2425883 - 12/30/17 01:00 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
HardcoreB Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 2623
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
...the Isky literature has claims about how "oil restrictor" friendly the bushings are, ..... So I'm leaving the door open for another explanation.

I will give my context to that 'claim' ...these lifters are more or less 'engineered' for a big block GM but they are packaged by ISKY to be used also (which they can in some cases) for a BBM tie bar is the only difference...lifter feed restricting in a BBC is a common modification.

I feel the bushings in this motor failed because of a lack of adequate lubrication.

It is because in your explained application you are loosing the suspension provided via interrupted feed oil. the way you explain it the case is more oil pressure 'interrupts' lol dry running.

That's what I'm going with unless I hear a good argument to the contrary.
I'm not going to argue with that reasoning.

The cam will go back to Comp, the lifters back to Isky...... See what that they come up with.

This is far from any type of "extreme" application either....... .430 lobe lift, 1.5 rockers, 600lbs open pressure.
This may be why it lasted so long to begin with without proper oiling ...I know they will fail quickly. I will make a GENERAL sidebar comment based on what I have seen one of our local ALL-MOTOR racer engine builders do...they grooved the body of a !!!JESEL!!! lifter body to enhance oil supply...so try to reason a product with SPECIFIC and 'superior' engineering being modified to suit an application. More specific being redundant for clarity in giving my opinion i would both make sure the axle feed is covered at all times by any of a few means and that at least a continuous .043" pathway is achieved.

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#2425887 - 12/30/17 01:06 PM Re: Anyone have a BB Isky Red Zone lifter not in the motor? [Re: fast68plymouth]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Well........these didn't last long at all.
All 16 are toast in about 200 street miles...... With no WOT blasts yet.


Obviously, the bodies like the ones we're dealing with aren't a retrofitted BBC body, as the lack of oil band i think would block/severely restrict the oil flow in a BBC block.

I don't know why they dont all get the oiling like the ones in the pic of your actual BBC set.
That really seems like the best solution to me.

A final decision won't be made until after we hear what Isky has to say, but at this point I'd say it's very unlikely bushed lifters with this oiling set-up will end up back in the motor.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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