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#2424256 - 12/27/17 12:05 AM Another vicious dog attack
mopargem Offline
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Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 2932
Loc: KY USA
This just happened over the holidays in my state of Kentucky. Very sad that these dog attacks continue to occurr.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati...-eve/980529001/

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#2424279 - 12/27/17 04:51 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
DAYCLONA Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 15713
Loc: Mass
In the world of pits, that's par for the course... total eradication of the pit breeds is needed, if they start now, maybe in a decade or two, pits could be an extinct species

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#2424291 - 12/27/17 07:26 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: DAYCLONA]
Blue Ridge 440 Offline
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Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
In the world of pits, that's par for the course... total eradication of the pit breeds is needed, if they start now, maybe in a decade or two, pits could be an extinct species


iagree They should put a bounty on these beasts...
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#2424308 - 12/27/17 08:39 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
AeroMonte Offline
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Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 5721
Loc: S.E. Missouri
If you read the article it seems the dogs were owned by a less than steller waste of oxygen. It's not the breed that is dangerous, it's the human trash that mistreat and create these vicious animals. I know several people with pits that are as gentle as any lap dog you may have. I've been bit and attacked by other breeds that you would never expect. It's the owners that are to blame and should be held accountable, not an entire breed of animal.

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#2424310 - 12/27/17 08:50 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
rocksmopar Offline
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Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Chicago
In most cases, I would pass the blame on the owner or some other upright creature...
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#2424312 - 12/27/17 08:50 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: AeroMonte]
69x Offline
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Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 773
Here we go again................

But I would never have one, Yes the type of owner can matter to a point but there are too many stories of 'But the dog was always so nice' and then it rips the face off a baby....

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#2424318 - 12/27/17 09:10 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: rocksmopar]
Scotts72Rallye Offline
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Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 2075
Loc: Third Stone from the Sun
Originally Posted By rocksmopar
In most cases, I would pass the blame on the owner or some other upright creature...
iagree Blame this clown, the owner!


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#2424331 - 12/27/17 09:32 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
A39Coronet Offline
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Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
Like I said...this forum and their love of these anti-pitbull stories go together like Pb&J. Get out your pitch forks...

Meanwhile thousands of responsible owners across the nation live with these "vicious" beasts daily.

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#2424338 - 12/27/17 09:42 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
fastmark Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4588
Loc: Abilene, Texas
There was a young woman killed just recently by her two pits that she had raised from pups. I did not bother to post it because of all the controversy that springs up on this site when they are mentioned. She was walking them in the woods and never came back. The dad called the sheriff and they found her dead. The dogs were eating her. I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life of other breeds that I don’t think would ever try to kill and eat me.

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#2424340 - 12/27/17 09:47 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
A39Coronet Offline
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Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
It was posted by someone else...

You mean to tell me that story doesn't raise suspicion in anyone? Something is being left out of that story.

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#2424347 - 12/27/17 10:05 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: AeroMonte]
Pkeel Online   content
mopar

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 545
Loc: Maine
While you are correct, it is only partially.

Pit Bulls have been chosen by people as the breed they wish to have for its "aggressive" attitude. Unfortunately, that means that there are now a subset of these dogs bred intentionally for aggression.

For people to say, I have two sweet and good pit bulls, doesn't have anything to do with this whole other subset of people that don't want a sweet dispositioned dog.

Should the breed be banned? I don't know, plenty of other dogs can be bred for aggression, are we just going to keep allowing people that want to breed irresponsibly to decide what breeds can and can't be bred?

Might be a better idea to prevent certain people from having pets at all.

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#2424352 - 12/27/17 10:21 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: AeroMonte]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 20823
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By AeroMonte
It's the owners that are to blame and should be held accountable, not an entire breed of animal.


IMO they go hand in hand. You are responsible for keeping your animal under your care and control at all times. I don't understand why people are allowed to keep pets they they are not physically capable of controlling.

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#2424354 - 12/27/17 10:23 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: fastmark]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 20823
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By fastmark
There was a young woman killed just recently by her two pits that she had raised from pups. I did not bother to post it because of all the controversy that springs up on this site when they are mentioned. She was walking them in the woods and never came back. The dad called the sheriff and they found her dead. The dogs were eating her. I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life of other breeds that I don’t think would ever try to kill and eat me.


I read that story in the news too. I thought it was sad but how dumb do you have to be, 100lb woman with two 200lb dogs that she couldn't hope to control should the need arise. To me that's gross negligence.

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#2424357 - 12/27/17 10:29 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
A39Coronet Offline
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Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
If they were indeed 200lbs, they weren't pitbulls. Average pit is 45-65lbs

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#2424389 - 12/27/17 11:37 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ScottSmith_Harms Online   content
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 41923
Loc: Spokane Washington
This just in.....2 Cocker Spanials attack and kill owner!


(No, of course, its BS)

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#2424392 - 12/27/17 11:47 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
RS23U1G Offline
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Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 18880
Loc: Detroit
(Has that rooster pheasant of yours ever exhibited aggressive behavior???

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#2424394 - 12/27/17 11:53 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
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My St. Bernard mix knocked a 5 year old over and then proceeded to lick him to death on Christmas day.

It was so very sad....
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#2424397 - 12/27/17 11:58 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ScottSmith_Harms Online   content
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Registered: 01/20/03
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Loc: Spokane Washington
Nope, pheasant is totally mellow, hasnt pecked my eyes out or anything.....Yet! LOL!

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#2424404 - 12/27/17 12:06 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Orange_Crush Offline
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Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 17934
Loc: Charlotte, NC
How about this video of a couple of vicious dogs attacking a kitten

Video


Edited by Orange_Crush (12/27/17 12:07 PM)
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#2424406 - 12/27/17 12:14 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Orange_Crush]
DAYCLONA Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 15713
Loc: Mass
Originally Posted By Orange_Crush
How about this video of a couple of vicious dogs attacking a kitten





You mean this one? https://youtu.be/bQP9SwafU8Y

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#2424413 - 12/27/17 12:24 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: fastmark]
QuickBpBp Offline
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Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 5884
Loc: SE PA.
Originally Posted By fastmark
There was a young woman killed just recently by her two pits that she had raised from pups. I did not bother to post it because of all the controversy that springs up on this site when they are mentioned. She was walking them in the woods and never came back. The dad called the sheriff and they found her dead. The dogs were eating her. I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life of other breeds that I don’t think would ever try to kill and eat me.


I posted about that one and it went "poof" quickly. They had picked up 60 plus pieces of evidence scattered around while the dogs visciously guarded what was left of her... Having been bitten by a pit bull who was a "sweetheart" with-in minutes of meeting her I don't have faith in that breed to own one...

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#2424429 - 12/27/17 12:48 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Orange_Crush Offline
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I think that one of the major problems with pitbulls (the breeds lumped into the pitbull category) are not the breeds themselves, rather, its the amount of damage that the breeds can do. There are craploads of pitbulls out there, but only a small percentage result in news stories. The problem is that, unlike a vicious chihuahua, a vicious bull can and will kill someone. Couple this with the fact that, in many cases, owners see their dogs as guns you can pet and we have a problem.

A pitbull is a working breed, much like a German Shepherd, Rottweiler, Doberman, Kuvasz, etc. These are meant to be protector breeds and, as such, require an inordinate amount of attention and discipline from their owners. If they are just left to their own devices and not properly trained, they will become vicious. I have seen it with a lot of different breeds...even seemingly benign dogs like labs.

The thing is, Shepherds, Rotts, Dobermans, etc. are also very intelligent dogs that have been carefully bred through generations to have a certain temperament.

Having known a former breeder of game dogs, I can tell you that intelligence was not on the priority list. The guy I knew put down pups which didn't have a certain amount of aggressiveness...and he was one of many who did the same thing. A lot of those genes have made it into the "family dog" bull bloodlines out there. In 99.99% of cases, it's never an issue...but that .01 will invariably result in grievous bodily harm or death.

But to say that the entire breed needs to be eliminated, well, I equate that to saying that the second amendment needs to be repealed because of mass shootings.
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#2424436 - 12/27/17 12:54 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: QuickBpBp]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By QuickBpBp
Originally Posted By fastmark
There was a young woman killed just recently by her two pits that she had raised from pups. I did not bother to post it because of all the controversy that springs up on this site when they are mentioned. She was walking them in the woods and never came back. The dad called the sheriff and they found her dead. The dogs were eating her. I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life of other breeds that I don’t think would ever try to kill and eat me.


I posted about that one and it went "poof" quickly. They had picked up 60 plus pieces of evidence scattered around while the dogs visciously guarded what was left of her... Having been bitten by a pit bull who was a "sweetheart" with-in minutes of meeting her I don't have faith in that breed to own one...


It's too bad these delusional pit defenders haven't had the joy of one of their loved ones being permanently disabled, mangled, or disfigured by one of their sweet little doggies. Or have the never ending happiness of paying a million+ dollar settlement after one of their babies has killed a neighborhood child. I can only hope that they too will share in the joy that so many victims of these stupid dogs have had to endure.
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#2424453 - 12/27/17 01:07 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
A39Coronet Offline
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Based on that open ended statement, ANY dog breed with an occurrence of violence falls under the same umbrella.

One attack is too many...regardless of breed. If you put a black lab in the hands of a bad owner, you're gonna have issues. Same reason why some people raise kids who commit crimes, and some people don't.

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#2424463 - 12/27/17 01:19 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
justinp61 Offline
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Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
In a case like this I wonder what will happen to the dogs owner? DUI drivers can and have gone to jail for many years for killing people. IMO they should get life sentences with no possibility for parole. My guess is dogs owner may get a couple years and be free to do as he pleases while the woman's spouse deals with the attack the rest of his life. I hate to say this, but if it happened to my wife it would be hard for me not to seek my own justice.

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#2424465 - 12/27/17 01:20 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: fastmark]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

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Originally Posted By fastmark
There was a young woman killed just recently by her two pits that she had raised from pups. I did not bother to post it because of all the controversy that springs up on this site when they are mentioned. She was walking them in the woods and never came back. The dad called the sheriff and they found her dead. The dogs were eating her. I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life of other breeds that I don’t think would ever try to kill and eat me.
I posted that one. It was deleted after a bunch of pro-pitbull members cried about it.
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#2424468 - 12/27/17 01:22 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Pkeel]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Pkeel
While you are correct, it is only partially.

Pit Bulls have been chosen by people as the breed they wish to have for its "aggressive" attitude. Unfortunately, that means that there are now a subset of these dogs bred intentionally for aggression.

For people to say, I have two sweet and good pit bulls, doesn't have anything to do with this whole other subset of people that don't want a sweet dispositioned dog.

Should the breed be banned? I don't know, plenty of other dogs can be bred for aggression, are we just going to keep allowing people that want to breed irresponsibly to decide what breeds can and can't be bred?

Might be a better idea to prevent certain people from having pets at all.
But you don't know which people those are, until their dogs injure or kill someone. And I don't know what kind of test can be done to find those people before they get any dog.
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2424469 - 12/27/17 01:22 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5554
Loc: Minnesota
We came close to disaster. Way back, my boss convinced me to drink the Koolaid that all the pit defenders have drunk. We got a good looking, well bred pup, it lived indoors and outdoors and was treated very well. Now this is really strange, but when the dog was about a year old, she started going into the laundry room, taking my wifes pantys out of the basket and shredding the crotches out of them (honest, it wasn't me) smirk Then she started acting slightly aggressive towards my wife. One day the wife came home and the dog would not let her out of the car. It took on a very vicious stance, showing its teeth and growling at her whenever she tried to get out. It held her prisoner there for a hour and a half until I got home. The scary thing is that if she had got out of the car before the dog saw her, it might have killed her.
Shortly after, I disposed of the dog. Never again!

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#2424471 - 12/27/17 01:24 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: DaytonaTurbo]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By DaytonaTurbo
Originally Posted By fastmark
There was a young woman killed just recently by her two pits that she had raised from pups. I did not bother to post it because of all the controversy that springs up on this site when they are mentioned. She was walking them in the woods and never came back. The dad called the sheriff and they found her dead. The dogs were eating her. I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life of other breeds that I don’t think would ever try to kill and eat me.


I read that story in the news too. I thought it was sad but how dumb do you have to be, 100lb woman with two 200lb dogs that she couldn't hope to control should the need arise. To me that's gross negligence.
It's called 'socialization', and 'proper obedience training'. AND a dog with a proper temperament.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424473 - 12/27/17 01:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
My St. Bernard mix knocked a 5 year old over and then proceeded to lick him to death on Christmas day.

It was so very sad....
Yup, Cherokee did that to a 10 year old girl. Her mother just stood there and didn't move, she was so scared and petrified. And they had Siberian Huskies.


work


Oh ya, the girl was laughing to death.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424474 - 12/27/17 01:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
NewbombTurkk Offline
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 3791
Loc: West Virginia
that woman hiker wasn't a crackhead or criminal, and she had two pits attack and eat her last month....so it isn't necessary the crackheads who are normally associated with them....it is the BREED people....not the owners.....the BREED..the DNA makeup makes them vicious....most pit owners are crackheads because it takes a lack of brains to put your trust into one.
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#2424475 - 12/27/17 01:27 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Orange_Crush]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Orange_Crush
How about this video of a couple of vicious dogs attacking a kitten

Video
Oh Man!!!

That cat doesn't have a chance! Poor kitty.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424478 - 12/27/17 01:32 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Hemi_Joel]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel
We came close to disaster. Way back, my boss convinced me to drink the Koolaid that all the pit defenders have drunk. We got a good looking, well bred pup, it lived indoors and outdoors and was treated very well. Now this is really strange, but when the dog was about a year old, she started going into the laundry room, taking my wifes pantys out of the basket and shredding the crotches out of them (honest, it wasn't me) smirk Then she started acting slightly aggressive towards my wife. One day the wife came home and the dog would not let her out of the car. It took on a very vicious stance, showing its teeth and growling at her whenever she tried to get out. It held her prisoner there for a hour and a half until I got home. The scary thing is that if she had got out of the car before the dog saw her, it might have killed her.
Shortly after, I disposed of the dog. Never again!
That dog was taking over the female side of the pack, and wanted to eliminate your wife as your wife was the breeding competition.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424484 - 12/27/17 01:43 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: amxautox]
Orange_Crush Offline
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Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel

Shortly after, I disposed of the dog. Never again!


You did the right thing.

The rule with animals in my house (especially dogs) is that if it is aggressive towards any member of the family, it immediately lears a painful lesson. If it does it again, it goes on a final ride.

I have never had a problem with an aggressive dog. I had a neighbor who was one of those "never punish the dog because it's a member of the family" types. I walked into his house and it went for my crotch. Fortunately, I'm always careful around new dogs and I slapped it's snout so hard I sent it sliding across the floor. I never had a problem with that dog again, though it bit his kid and his wife and he finally had to give it to a rescue.

Dogs require a strong alpha or they will become dangerous.
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#2424492 - 12/27/17 02:06 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: A39Coronet]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By A39Coronet
Based on that open ended statement, ANY dog breed with an occurrence of violence falls under the same umbrella.

One attack is too many...regardless of breed. If you put a black lab in the hands of a bad owner, you're gonna have issues. Same reason why some people raise kids who commit crimes, and some people don't.


Not even close. Sure any dog can be aggressive and any dog can bite. The difference is (and this is what you defenders fail to acknowledge) that NO DOG does it like a pit. And once they have made that decision you can't even beat them off with a baseball bat! Why do you think cops don't use them for their K9 units? Because they are stupid, once they attack they don't stop. Pits make up about 6% of the canine population yet they are responsible for 71% of the fatalities from dog attacks. They attack more often and with much greater severity.

You guys always want to blame the owners and granted they are responsible for their dogs actions but you can't blame the owners for the dogs DNA. Perfectly good owners have had pits attack and kill children.

Give me one, just one good reason why any animal capable of bringing down a 1000 pound feral bovine or a 500 pound feral hog should be allowed in a residential neighborhood.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2424497 - 12/27/17 02:14 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Orange_Crush]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Orange_Crush
Originally Posted By Hemi_Joel

Shortly after, I disposed of the dog. Never again!


You did the right thing.

The rule with animals in my house (especially dogs) is that if it is aggressive towards any member of the family, it immediately lears a painful lesson. If it does it again, it goes on a final ride.

I have never had a problem with an aggressive dog. I had a neighbor who was one of those "never punish the dog because it's a member of the family" types. I walked into his house and it went for my crotch. Fortunately, I'm always careful around new dogs and I slapped it's snout so hard I sent it sliding across the floor. I never had a problem with that dog again, though it bit his kid and his wife and he finally had to give it to a rescue.

Dogs require a strong alpha or they will become dangerous.



And sometimes a rescue can't handle or save a dog. The other day I read a news story where a woman rescue person was killed by a dog she was trying to train/socialize. No it wasn't a pit, it was an Akita.

http://www.ajc.com/news/national/volunte...tsRwx1KzHGeSFL/


most of the pictures in that video are NOT Akitas, they are Sheba Inu, an SMALL cousin of the Akita. And that vid wasn't in the first article I read.


Edited by amxautox (12/27/17 02:17 PM)
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2424501 - 12/27/17 02:19 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By A39Coronet
Based on that open ended statement, ANY dog breed with an occurrence of violence falls under the same umbrella.

One attack is too many...regardless of breed. If you put a black lab in the hands of a bad owner, you're gonna have issues. Same reason why some people raise kids who commit crimes, and some people don't.


Not even close. Sure any dog can be aggressive and any dog can bite. The difference is (and this is what you defenders fail to acknowledge) that NO DOG does it like a pit. And once they have made that decision you can't even beat them off with a baseball bat! Why do you think cops don't use them for their K9 units? Because they are stupid, once they attack they don't stop. Pits make up about 6% of the canine population yet they are responsible for 71% of the fatalities from dog attacks. They attack more often and with much greater severity.

You guys always want to blame the owners and granted they are responsible for their dogs actions but you can't blame the owners for the dogs DNA. Perfectly good owners have had pits attack and kill children.

Give me one, just one good reason why any animal capable of bringing down a 1000 pound feral bovine or a 500 pound feral hog should be allowed in a residential neighborhood.
Also a Pit ISN'T a guard dog, it is an ATTACK dog for herding, and such, of the mentioned bovines and hogs.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424502 - 12/27/17 02:20 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
RS23U1G Offline
Moparts Torchbearer

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 18880
Loc: Detroit
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Give me one, just one good reason why any animal capable of bringing down a 1000 pound feral bovine or a 500 pound feral hog should be allowed in a residential neighborhood.



I can...


But it would probably be considered 'offensive'...

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#2424507 - 12/27/17 02:27 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: RS23U1G]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96615
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Originally Posted By RS23U1G
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Give me one, just one good reason why any animal capable of bringing down a 1000 pound feral bovine or a 500 pound feral hog should be allowed in a residential neighborhood.



I can...


But it would probably be considered 'offensive'...
'protect' drug dealers and manufacturers?
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424535 - 12/27/17 03:42 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By A39Coronet
Based on that open ended statement, ANY dog breed with an occurrence of violence falls under the same umbrella.

One attack is too many...regardless of breed. If you put a black lab in the hands of a bad owner, you're gonna have issues. Same reason why some people raise kids who commit crimes, and some people don't.


Not even close. Sure any dog can be aggressive and any dog can bite. The difference is (and this is what you defenders fail to acknowledge) that NO DOG does it like a pit. And once they have made that decision you can't even beat them off with a baseball bat! Why do you think cops don't use them for their K9 units? Because they are stupid, once they attack they don't stop. Pits make up about 6% of the canine population yet they are responsible for 71% of the fatalities from dog attacks. They attack more often and with much greater severity.

You guys always want to blame the owners and granted they are responsible for their dogs actions but you can't blame the owners for the dogs DNA. Perfectly good owners have had pits attack and kill children.

Give me one, just one good reason why any animal capable of bringing down a 1000 pound feral bovine or a 500 pound feral hog should be allowed in a residential neighborhood.


NY and Ohio both began to use Pit breeds as K9. They are cheaper than German raised Shepard's, and proven to be just as trainable despite your opinion they're "stupid", which I HOPE is based on actual first hand experience...

https://www.google.com/amp/fox8.com/2017...n-of-breed/amp/

"Pitbulls" are made up of over a dozen different formal breeds of K9, where as a German Shepard/Rot/Doberman are all just one. Their stats are heavily over reported because everything from Staffordshire terrior to American bully funnel up to the "pitbull" category.

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#2424540 - 12/27/17 03:45 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: A39Coronet]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96615
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Shepard/Rot/Doberman are all man made breeds, made up from multiple breeds each, to arrive at the end results.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2424559 - 12/27/17 04:29 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
SomeCarGuy Offline
master

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 8418
Loc: Someplace you aren't
I worked with a lady that overheard a couple of people talking up their pit bulls. She said look at my face, you see these scars you morons. We never what they were from before. She ripped those bozos pitheads into shreds. It was great.
_________________________
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#2424564 - 12/27/17 04:35 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
EV2Bird Online   penguin-006
No more politics

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 3836
Loc: Kansas Roads Between 0 and 140...
My sis in law recently adopted an abused 3 legged pit. So far so good, but if I were pampered on a seven million dollar estate even I could be good.

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#2424635 - 12/27/17 06:55 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: A39Coronet]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By A39Coronet
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By A39Coronet
Based on that open ended statement, ANY dog breed with an occurrence of violence falls under the same umbrella.

One attack is too many...regardless of breed. If you put a black lab in the hands of a bad owner, you're gonna have issues. Same reason why some people raise kids who commit crimes, and some people don't.


Not even close. Sure any dog can be aggressive and any dog can bite. The difference is (and this is what you defenders fail to acknowledge) that NO DOG does it like a pit. And once they have made that decision you can't even beat them off with a baseball bat! Why do you think cops don't use them for their K9 units? Because they are stupid, once they attack they don't stop. Pits make up about 6% of the canine population yet they are responsible for 71% of the fatalities from dog attacks. They attack more often and with much greater severity.

You guys always want to blame the owners and granted they are responsible for their dogs actions but you can't blame the owners for the dogs DNA. Perfectly good owners have had pits attack and kill children.

Give me one, just one good reason why any animal capable of bringing down a 1000 pound feral bovine or a 500 pound feral hog should be allowed in a residential neighborhood.


NY and Ohio both began to use Pit breeds as K9. They are cheaper than German raised Shepard's, and proven to be just as trainable despite your opinion they're "stupid", which I HOPE is based on actual first hand experience...

https://www.google.com/amp/fox8.com/2017...n-of-breed/amp/

"Pitbulls" are made up of over a dozen different formal breeds of K9, where as a German Shepard/Rot/Doberman are all just one. Their stats are heavily over reported because everything from Staffordshire terrior to American bully funnel up to the "pitbull" category.


And everyone of them deserve the title. Yes I have plenty of first hand experience with them. I spent more than twenty years in Kissimmee Florida much before Disney World even opened. It was called Cowtown back then. Full of ranchers, rednecks and hog hunters. I have even owned a pit way back when but switched to Catahoulas as they were extremely smart, learned in one shot and were totally under voice command. Anyone that thinks pits are smart has never had a smart dog like a Border Collie, Australian Shepard, Australian Cattle Dog or a Catahoula.

As for you claim that NY and Ohio are using pits, I have to call BS. Ohio only recently lifted their ban on pits over the objections of the Police Union and others like EMT's and emergency room Doctors. As for NY, well, I don't see a single pit in here, do you?

NY State Police K9 photo gallery

But I also see you conveniently skipped over my two biggest points. No dog, bites or attacks like a pit bull. You guys all know it but you won't admit it so anything else you have to say is BS.

You have also failed to provide one single reason these animals should be allowed in a residential neighborhood. I already figured you wouldn't do that because there is no justification for it, period, end of subject.

You may find an exception here and there but even a cursory google search can net you a plethora of pit bull attacks.

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2017/12/toddler_mauled_by_pit_bull_in.html

http://people.com/human-interest/4-year-old-released-hospital-pit-bull-attack/

http://www.wpxi.com/news/top-stories/5-year-old-boy-in-hospital-after-dog-attack/669334376

http://fox2now.com/2017/12/11/pit-bull-attacks-kills-77-year-old-suburban-illinois-woman/

http://www.king5.com/article/news/local/ups-driver-testifies-about-pit-bull-attack/495904711

https://www.google.com/search?q=pit+bull...h=964&dpr=1

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5200435/toddler-mauled-pit-bull-with-family-at-adoption-event/

http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/crimestop...lotte/499972601

http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/12/18/why-pit-bulls-attack-virginia-woman-expert-speaks/

http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/12/19/pit-bull-training-to-avoid-attacks-expert-advice/

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Po...-462419433.html

http://whdh.com/news/fitchburg-girl-7-seriously-injured-in-vicious-pit-bull-attack/

How long do I have to go on?
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2424660 - 12/27/17 07:51 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
BigMoneyLewis Offline
master

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 4078
Loc: Alabama
Just in the last few weeks , we had two separate cases where pit bulls killed
people here in north Alabama. One was a lady was in her 50's and the other was a 24 year old lady.

Greg
_________________________
gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955

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#2424666 - 12/27/17 08:03 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
I posted the actual article for Ohio, what's not to believe?

Here is for NY:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews...te-of-new-york/

"No dog bites like a pitbull"...except the 8 dogs that do...

https://www.caninejournal.com/dog-bite-statistics/

I'm not going to continue the p*ssing match to see who can dig up more articles to prove a point. Bulldog bites a kid, think it's going to make Nationwide news? Not a fat chance.

I don't need to state a reason for ownership in a residential area, same way I don't need to explain why my car has the ability to exceed a legally posted speed limit or why I'm allowed to buy a keg of beer. Probably, thankfully, people who make laws do a bit more research than knee jerk reactions to things.

Bottom line is your argument is painting with a broad brush, and fails to look at any inputs to the situations you've posted. My 42lb-er ain't taking down a 1,000lb anything. In fact, she's been attacked twice this year by a neighbor's dogs, a lab mix and his bulldog.

It's EXTREMELY unfortunate that these events occur...and there's no denying they do. However, I would be very interested in seeing some ownership characteristic data amongst breeds. I suspect there's some big differences here that would attribute to these issues.

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#2424704 - 12/27/17 09:21 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Morty426 Offline
master

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 8076
Loc: Sacramento CA
Pits come in two types - attack dog and bait dog.

The problem is you never know which one you have.

I have had two pit-mixes that were bait dog material. Greatest dogs ever.

I currently have a female pocket pit (about 50 pounds) and she is not a bait dog. So she is watched like a hawk. Never allowed in public, no off leash, isolated from other dogs. It's a good dog but it has a loose wire like all attack pits.

After this dog is gone I will never own another one.

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#2424726 - 12/27/17 10:00 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
469runner Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 1078
Loc: North Carolina
I have nothing to add to this except. I hate Pit Bulls, they are ugly and I have seen the aggressive nature of this breed. Tough guys like them because it makes them feel tough.

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#2424757 - 12/28/17 12:18 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: 469runner]
rhad Offline
mopar

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 672
Loc: garnett kansas
i went to visit a old friend recently,her son has a american bulldog,massive head and body,must weigh well over 100 pounds,dont look like a pit but that head size will make you think twice,he was the most laid back dog ive seen in a while.just a big cuddle bug,on the otherhand my son HAD a black dog of mixed breed that he raised from a pup,it was part rott but looked like a longhaired lab,.NO ONE could get close to that dog except my son he was on a chain and growled and barked anytime someone came on my sons property,at one point he broke his chain and nipped my wife slightly on the calf of her leg,the decision was made to take him to the vet and see what could be done like neuter ,etc,we put a muzzle on him and i loaded him in the back of my pickup and headed for the vet about 35 miles away,as soon as i came to a stop sign about 15 miles from his home he was as docile as a newborn pup,so i ask the vet about this,he said neuter wouldnt help due to the fact the dog was around 3 yrs old and it had become a habit to protect his home,moving him to a new owner/home would be fine until the dog decided it was HIS home,then he would be on attack and protect mode again,
bottom line i had him put to sleep for everyones relief except my sons
_________________________
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#2424791 - 12/28/17 04:55 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: rhad]
AeroMonte Offline
master

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 5721
Loc: S.E. Missouri
Originally Posted By rhad
i went to visit a old friend recently,her son has a american bulldog,massive head and body,must weigh well over 100 pounds,dont look like a pit but that head size will make you think twice,he was the most laid back dog ive seen in a while.just a big cuddle bug,on the otherhand my son HAD a black dog of mixed breed that he raised from a pup,it was part rott but looked like a longhaired lab,.NO ONE could get close to that dog except my son he was on a chain and growled and barked anytime someone came on my sons property,at one point he broke his chain and nipped my wife slightly on the calf of her leg,the decision was made to take him to the vet and see what could be done like neuter ,etc,we put a muzzle on him and i loaded him in the back of my pickup and headed for the vet about 35 miles away,as soon as i came to a stop sign about 15 miles from his home he was as docile as a newborn pup,so i ask the vet about this,he said neuter wouldnt help due to the fact the dog was around 3 yrs old and it had become a habit to protect his home,moving him to a new owner/home would be fine until the dog decided it was HIS home,then he would be on attack and protect mode again,
bottom line i had him put to sleep for everyones relief except my sons



ON A CHAIN....and then wonder why they become aggressive and protective. I will not ever declare an entire breed be eradicated, as I believe the humanoids are more to blame. I will admit that a pit has been bred to be strong and powerful and can cause serious injury. No I would not own one either. I am cautious around any large breed animal also. Animals have alpha males and females, they are pack animals. If you let that animal show dominance you have lost the battle.

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#2424827 - 12/28/17 09:31 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: A39Coronet]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 20823
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By A39Coronet

I don't need to state a reason for ownership in a residential area, same way I don't need to explain why my car has the ability to exceed a legally posted speed limit or why I'm allowed to buy a keg of beer. Probably, thankfully, people who make laws do a bit more research than knee jerk reactions to things.


That's false equivalency and you know it. You don't hear stories about cars jumping out of driveways and running people over by themselves or sweet loving kegs of beer deciding to alcohol poison to death random passers by. Those are inanimate objects fully under human control. Let's face it, animals have a mind of their own. If a chihuahua attacks, chances are you will be able to do something about it before serious injury occurs. A pitt, well....

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#2424839 - 12/28/17 09:58 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: A39Coronet]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By A39Coronet
I posted the actual article for Ohio, what's not to believe?


What you posted was from Kansas not Ohio. laugh2

Originally Posted By A39Coronet


One dog working as a narcotics and missing persons detection dog in one city. Hardly what I would call a movement.

Originally Posted By A39Coronet
"No dog bites like a pitbull"...except the 8 dogs that do...

https://www.caninejournal.com/dog-bite-statistics/


Show me just one example of those other eight breeds that do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHgtdkMrojA

The fact is none of them do or will. And I can assure you if I hit any one of those other eight breeds you referenced with a baseball bat one time they would stop whatever they were doing. A pit? Fat chance. You are going to have to beat it damn near to death or unconsciousness before it quits. You apparently have no idea what you have invited into your home. I pray you don't have young children.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2424851 - 12/28/17 10:21 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Interesting A39. The article you posted included bulldog separate and it lists breed from both sides of pond. Our neighbor has an american bulldog that looks like a trim and tall pit bull. The article reads "Bulldogs rank at the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence." I believe it. I've watched I neighbor fight his bull dog to keep it from barking, finally resorting to an electric collar with remote control. It's the single worse behaved dog I've been near. I've witnessed it attempt to attack our dogs through a wire fence (injuring it's nose and muzzle) tried to jump over fence to chomp at my face and constantly goes berzerk if it sees my wife in our orchard. Late 60's older guy owns the dog and is responsible for it's behavior. I told him that he needs to work with his dog and control it as I rather not have to defend our dogs or beings. His anwser was to install a small wire fenced run where the dog gets to pop out for a few minutes at a time, then back into the garage.
I agree that in many cases it's the owner, not the dog. Pits on the other hand do seem to have a preponderance of bad dog owners. I think it's appropriate for fans and breeders of these dogs start breeding down the temperament that other (irresponsible?) owners are so adamantly breeding into.
It's very factual that pits are most often housed and killed off in municipal dog pounds, it's not the dogs fault, it's the owners. The percentage of good owners ought to take action improving the breed, and also the quality of those they sell them to before the breed is singled out. The day has come that something needs to happen.

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#2424856 - 12/28/17 10:32 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Supercuda Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13241
The preponderance of evidence suggest that most pit bull owners do not fall into the good owner category. Hoping the owners will breed out the stupid in Pits is almost as foolish as expecting the Pits to breed the stupid out of their owners and as likely.

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#2424882 - 12/28/17 11:17 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
I foolishly wrote that as the way to say the breed is doomed, I'm sure many dogs of a multitude of breeds wish other owners would have picked them.

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#2424909 - 12/28/17 11:41 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Supercuda Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13241
I know

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#2425015 - 12/28/17 04:27 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
why should any dog be kept in a non-working environment household or residential area???

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#2425018 - 12/28/17 04:29 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By srt
The article reads "Bulldogs rank at the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence."


what kind of bulldog?

french bulldog?
english bulldog?
american bulldog?
or some other bulldog??

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#2425020 - 12/28/17 04:32 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By krautrock
why should any dog be kept in a non-working environment household or residential area???


Not all dogs are working dogs and you know it, so stop playing stupid.

And I might add that no other dog, and I mean none has the perseverance, tolerance for pain and single mindedness of a pit. That's why you guys have them. Sorry about your inadequacies as a man. It's pretty sad you have to have a bad ass stupid dog to make you feel like more of a man.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2425022 - 12/28/17 04:33 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By srt
The article reads "Bulldogs rank at the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence."


what kind of bulldog?

french bulldog?
english bulldog?
american bulldog?
or some other bulldog??


All of them are dumber than a box a rocks.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

Top
#2425025 - 12/28/17 04:37 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96615
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
why should any dog be kept in a non-working environment household or residential area???


Not all dogs are working dogs and you know it, so stop playing stupid.
That is impossible.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2425027 - 12/28/17 04:38 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96615
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By srt
The article reads "Bulldogs rank at the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence."


what kind of bulldog?

french bulldog?
english bulldog?
american bulldog?
or some other bulldog??


All of them are dumber than a box a rocks.
After seeing all of those breeds at dog shows and obedience trials, I have to agree.
_________________________
Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown


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#2425070 - 12/28/17 06:32 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Originally Posted By krautrock
what kind of bulldog?

from this article that was linked
https://www.caninejournal.com/bulldog/

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#2425077 - 12/28/17 07:01 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By srt
The article reads "Bulldogs rank at the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence."


what kind of bulldog?

french bulldog?
english bulldog?
american bulldog?
or some other bulldog??


All of them are dumber than a box a rocks.


from the survey the article is citing, a st. bernard is dumber than any of the breeds we've mentioned so far except the english bulldog. lol.
i've always said dogs and owners are usually pretty similar...

http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html

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#2425080 - 12/28/17 07:03 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
why should any dog be kept in a non-working environment household or residential area???


Not all dogs are working dogs and you know it, so stop playing stupid.


i'm just wondering what's the reason to haee any dog that doesn't serve a useful purpose like hunting or something like that.
why do you have whatever breed you have?

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#2425117 - 12/28/17 08:01 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By srt
The article reads "Bulldogs rank at the lowest degree of working/obedience intelligence."


what kind of bulldog?

french bulldog?
english bulldog?
american bulldog?
or some other bulldog??


All of them are dumber than a box a rocks.


from the survey the article is citing, a st. bernard is dumber than any of the breeds we've mentioned so far except the english bulldog. lol.
i've always said dogs and owners are usually pretty similar...

http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html


Oh yeah, you got me good. Not!

I never said my dog was smart. She is a St Bernard/cocker spaniel mix that absolutely loves everyone and will do anything for a treat. She is beautiful, goofy and loving.

My Catahoula was extremely smart, probably smarter than you because she could at least follow direction and assess a situation correctly and respond accordingly.

So since you think owners are similar to their dogs I guess you are saying you are an ugly, stupid, crop eared, dwarf with a bad attitude and a propensity for violence.

I guess I agree with you then.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2425121 - 12/28/17 08:06 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
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Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
why should any dog be kept in a non-working environment household or residential area???


Not all dogs are working dogs and you know it, so stop playing stupid.


i'm just wondering what's the reason to haee any dog that doesn't serve a useful purpose like hunting or something like that.
why do you have whatever breed you have?


I rescued the dogs I have because I have a heart for innocent defenseless animals and people.

Why do you have a hog dog if you don't use it for taking down hogs?

Take a look at the video I posted and show me any other breed that would do that. And don't skate around it either by cherry picking. Find a video of another breed taking down a hog.
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#2425138 - 12/28/17 08:27 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By krautrock


what kind of bulldog?

french bulldog?
english bulldog?
american bulldog?
or some other bulldog??


All of them are dumber than a box a rocks.


from the survey the article is citing, a st. bernard is dumber than any of the breeds we've mentioned so far except the english bulldog. lol.
i've always said dogs and owners are usually pretty similar...

http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html


Oh yeah, you got me good. Not!

I never said my dog was smart. She is a St Bernard/cocker spaniel mix that absolutely loves everyone and will do anything for a treat. She is beautiful, goofy and loving.

My Catahoula was extremely smart, probably smarter than you because she could at least follow direction and assess a situation correctly and respond accordingly.

So since you think owners are similar to their dogs I guess you are saying you are an ugly, stupid, crop eared, dwarf with a bad attitude and a propensity for violence.

I guess I agree with you then.


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#2425157 - 12/28/17 08:53 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Krautrock linked article shows bull terrier ranking 66 and is among the group that obey first command 30% of the time or better. Bulldogs ranked 77 and in the group that obey first command 25% of the time or worse.
Several other potentially aggressive dogs are near the top of the intelligence list and obey at a higher percentage.
I can't be the only person to see that a strong potentially aggressive dog that does not listen to commands at a high rate can be problematic.
My dog choice criteria will not allow me to own several similar breeds. I don't like dogs that slobber and do not want to own one, much less be around one.

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#2425189 - 12/28/17 09:49 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones


Take a look at the video I posted and show me any other breed that would do that. And don't skate around it either by cherry picking. Find a video of another breed taking down a hog.


an american pitbull terrier won't take down a hog. my big bad scary male APBT is barely over 50lbs. that's not doing much to a hog.

there are plenty of dogs that attack. i was going to find a video of a police dog but this was an easy find too and it covers quite a few breeds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s5DoGy1Bfo

notice what they say about the last dog on the list...

also i've met a Dogo before, it was very nice and silly.

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#2425212 - 12/28/17 10:58 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
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Registered: 11/23/04
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Loc: Texas
I've been called over by a hysterical 7 year old neighbor to help her Mom get the pitbull off of their other dog. Yea, that was fun. That pit was about as dead-eyed as a Great White while it had the other dog's throat....you will not find me near those things, if I can help it.

I can assure you my Border Collies won't be an issue either. The last thing I want is a "protective" or remotely aggressive dog in my house.
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#2425248 - 12/29/17 01:48 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Krautrock. The wiki article clearly explains "Because aggressive traits are purposely bred out, attacks on humans or other pets are extremely rare."
Breeders have purposely bread out undesirable traits. Do you think there is any chance a dog whose roots are the Cordoba Fighting Dog could become undesirable? Perhaps "fans" of the dog could breed to enhance those fight to the death tendencies.
Several of thes large (livestock) type guard and working dogs have become subject to breeders wanting bad azz dogs. To with the two that tore apart a woman outside her apartment when they overpowered the caretaker and attacked. The caretaker, an attorney (and her husband) re-homed the dogs from a woman in the small nor cal town of Hayfork where they took to killing neighbors goats. The owners were actually convicts in California's Pelican Bay whom were running a breeding program from there.
Again, it's not the dog it's the owners. Unfortunately some dogs, in the hands of some people produce undesirable traits. Not only temperment, but bad hips, skin problems, cancer tendency and numerous other issues.
It's like anything else, if there is $ to be made...

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#2425540 - 12/29/17 06:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
amxautox Online   content
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#2425919 - 12/30/17 01:53 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: AeroMonte]
bboogieart Offline
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Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 3551
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Originally Posted By AeroMonte
If you read the article it seems the dogs were owned by a less than steller waste of oxygen. It's not the breed that is dangerous, it's the human trash that mistreat and create these vicious animals. I know several people with pits that are as gentle as any lap dog you may have. I've been bit and attacked by other breeds that you would never expect. It's the owners that are to blame and should be held accountable, not an entire breed of animal.


This is what I have experienced myself.
I have known several very kind Rotts as well as Pintchers and a few other supposedly dangerous dogs.
It is indeed the human element that creates a beast.
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#2425920 - 12/30/17 01:55 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2425922 - 12/30/17 01:56 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Pkeel]
bboogieart Offline
master

Registered: 01/12/08
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Originally Posted By Pkeel
Might be a better idea to prevent certain people from having pets at all.

Might be an even better idea to keep some people from breeding.
Oops, too far? whistling
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#2426169 - 12/30/17 11:19 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
For discussion only, I realize what you wrote is tongue in cheek:
Some people (with genetic markers) elect to not have children. Is this reasonable?
Is it right to suggest laws to prevent bringing forth defective progeny?
Is it too far of a reach to suggest that some animal progeny serve no useful purpose today? The freedom of choice could be compromised should society dictate if reasonable alternates exist that would preclude individual rights.
Tred lightly.
I suggest fans of potentially dangerous breeds start thinking about breeding out undesirable traits (before they become unreasonable to society).

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#2426229 - 12/31/17 07:18 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
BIGGERED Offline
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Registered: 04/17/06
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Apparently..

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#2426339 - 12/31/17 11:55 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
magnum440d100 Offline
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Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1846
Loc: woodcrest, CA
I didn't have a dog in this fight until I talked to my neighbor. I noticed he had a new puppy. We got to talking, and he got a new puppy because over Christmas, his other pup was eating and an 8 year old pulled on the pups tail, and the dog bit the kid. Not the dogs fault, and the dog was great around kids otherwise. There was no indication that the pup was vicious or would otherwise harm a kid. It was euthanized.

The pup? It was a husky German shepherd mix.


And FWIW, I rescued a pit from a horse rescue. She had bitten one guy twice and another guy once. She ended up being a great dog. I even trusted her with my bed ridden gramma. Even my grammas nurses would comment on what a great dog she was. She had been beat with hands, and was hand shy. The guy she bit twice? Shoved his hand in front of her face. You don't do that! You wait for the dog to approach YOU especially if it were just dropped off and was in a high stress situation! The other guy she bit? She walked up to him sniffing him, he turned around quickly, dang near stepped on her, scared her, and she snapped and ran and hid.

I worked with that pit and she was no longer hand shy. I knew she would be a great dog after I accidentally stepped on her paw and she yelped and didn't snap at me.

She unfortunately passed at 5 years old.

And yes, another pit is in my future. Saying all pits are bad is painting with a broad brush. It's akin to seeing a dented mopar and saying all Mopar drivers are bad drivers.

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#2426345 - 12/31/17 12:04 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ScottSmith_Harms Online   content
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 41923
Loc: Spokane Washington
magnum440d100,

So, let's say you had your pit in a public place (that being anywhere outside your home) and it bit the face of a 5 year old girl because she put her hand in its face to pet it.

Where would you place the blame?

The pit?
The pits owner
The little girl?
The little girls gaurdian?

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#2426351 - 12/31/17 12:14 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
magnum440d100 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1846
Loc: woodcrest, CA
Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
magnum440d100,

So, let's say you had your pit in a public place (that being anywhere outside your home) and it bit the face of a 5 year old girl because she put her hand in its face to pet it.

Where would you place the blame?

The pit?
The pits owner
The little girl?
The little girls gaurdian?


AL of the above would get blamed.

The dog for biting, myself for not noticing a little girl running up to the dog and stopping it from happening, the little girl for not asking to pet the dog, and the girls guardian for not teaching the girl to ask before petting the dog.

Do YOU just go up to any dog and pet it in public? Do you ask first?

I was at a car show and a woman was walking a pit. She walked by my truck I entered. I ASKED if I could pet the dog and she said yes. I pet the dog and it LOVED the attention.

There are way too many variables in the above scenario though. If my dog were a nervous dog (breed doesn't matter) I would NOT take it out in public en mass. I would socialize it slowly at first. And if asked to be pet, I would object if I felt the dog would not respond well (assuming I took the dog public if it were nervous).



Edited by magnum440d100 (12/31/17 12:16 PM)
Edit Reason: Phones autocorrect...

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#2426744 - 12/31/17 07:16 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
JMCFAN Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 1490
Loc: New Mexico
Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
magnum440d100,

So, let's say you had your pit in a public place (that being anywhere outside your home) and it bit the face of a 5 year old girl because she put her hand in its face to pet it.

Where would you place the blame?

The pit?
The pits owner
The little girl?
The little girls gaurdian?


tough question... but if i had dog that would bite a child.... gone!!!
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#2426766 - 12/31/17 07:36 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
My elderly neighbors across the road (rural area) have three large german sheperds and a female pit. I will not visit unless I call and make sure the shepherds are in the pen, the pit has never shown any aggression. Not saying she never will.

The shepherds are kept in a pen and they let them out from time to time and on occasion they come into my yard. I don't care for them being here but I do have a small dog that stays out side. There have been a couple times that either my wife or myself have gone out and they were here and approaching my dog in an aggressive way. Also late this summer my wife heard our dog barking and went out, our dog was on the porch and one of the shepherds was starting up the steps. She ran him off but he turned and started coming back growling, fortunately he turned and went home.

After that I visited my neighbor and explained that if their dogs ever did that again and I was home I'd bring them home dead. If I'm in your yard and your dog is aggressive with me it's one thing, I will not tolerate it in my yard, your dog will die, no if's and or but's about it.

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#2426847 - 12/31/17 08:59 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: justinp61]
magnum440d100 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1846
Loc: woodcrest, CA
Originally Posted By justinp61
My elderly neighbors across the road (rural area) have three large german sheperds and a female pit. I will not visit unless I call and make sure the shepherds are in the pen, the pit has never shown any aggression. Not saying she never will.

The shepherds are kept in a pen and they let them out from time to time and on occasion they come into my yard. I don't care for them being here but I do have a small dog that stays out side. There have been a couple times that either my wife or myself have gone out and they were here and approaching my dog in an aggressive way. Also late this summer my wife heard our dog barking and went out, our dog was on the porch and one of the shepherds was starting up the steps. She ran him off but he turned and started coming back growling, fortunately he turned and went home.

After that I visited my neighbor and explained that if their dogs ever did that again and I was home I'd bring them home dead. If I'm in your yard and your dog is aggressive with me it's one thing, I will not tolerate it in my yard, your dog will die, no if's and or but's about it.


A friend of mine has 2 shepherds. One is an older female. She is a rescue and estimated to have been a stray for a couple years. She showed up at my friends friends place of business one day, they fed her, and eventually she let people get close. This dog is absolutely an amazing dog. She's just laid back, calm, and obedient. If my female dog got along with other female dogs, I'd have dognapped my friends shepherd.

His OTHER shepherd is an entirely different story. He's had him since a pup. And I mean puppy. He is about a year old now, and is unruly. My friend works with him, and the dog knows sit, stay, etc but the dog is DUMB! Chews on everything, has chewed wires on cars, antennas on cars, scratch the paint on all the cars (all Mercedes and about 10 of them plus a few other makes). You try to punish this dog, and it's like he has no pain receptors. He was running full speed, smacked into a car and kept going! There is nothing that hasn't been chewed in the yard either. He takes tools and stuff off tables, and chews it. Only during the night.

The other day, I was talking to my friend. This dog jump up and paws me in the back. I turned, grabbed him by the collar, and slammed him to the ground and held him there. I explained to my friend that jumping on me at 260 pounds is one thing. But if he were to jump on my friends kids (30 and 50lbs appx) the kids would be seriously hurt. He said that yeah, he has jumped and knocked the kids over.

I'm seriously torn on this dog. There is absolutely no aggression, or mal intent coming from this dog. He is super friendly, just extremely unruly. He "may" turn into a good dog in a couple years. My pup honey settled down at about 2-2.5 years old. Now she's absolutely amazing. I'm hoping the same is true for this pup. But on the other hand, I'm thinking this pups excited energy may turn to aggressive energy if it can't be released appropriately. This pup DOES get plenty of exercise. He has a 1/2 acre of yard that him and the other pup run around in, and they DO play so it's not like he has no outlet....

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#2426849 - 12/31/17 09:03 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: justinp61]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9612
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
Pitbulls are decended from Terriers....the dogs people used to ferret out and kill rodents and other pests. I think it's safe to state that generally Terriers are inherently aggressive and territorial by nature.

I knew people I worked with in construction in rural SC many years ago that used to brag about their fighting dogs and how they line bred them to make them crazy and viscious, basically 'redneck designer' fighting dogs. The inherent strength of the pitbull is #1 it's biting strength with relentless jaws and #2 it's relatively thick and loose skin around the thick necks (where dogs instictively attack eachother) that would allow a bit dog to reach around and still bite the other without bleeding significantly. Combine that with a dogs inherent aggressive terrier nature and then 'super-size' that with selective aggressive breeding and training....there you have a lethal killing machine that literally can be bred to fear nothing and will attack ANYTHING on a trained command.

But that said I know many happy fun loving fiercly loyal pits that I have no issue with at all and love to play and wrestle with. My friend has a beautiful blue/white 95 pound female that is an awesome companion and loves to play. It's a shame for the good ones that are tossed inthe mix with the horror show animals you hear about in the news. Most apartment complexes and some HOAs and public parks openly discriminate against the breed because of the reputation....very sad. Are they smart? No I wouldn't say that is one of their strengths.

For 13 years I had a Female Wolf-Dog (her father was a pure 135lb McKenzie Timberwolf and her mother a Siberian Husky) and that animal was amazingly super-naturally smart but very loving animal, I could give her a 2" Diameter ham bone one minute and she would break it into pieces and then the next minute I'd wrestle with her on the floor with my whole wrist in her mouth and she would never come close to breaking skin....But if an adult stranger came to the house she would crouch and wouldn't make a sound.....but when you were within her striking range she would growl and show teeth to let you know she's ready....and then wait for your next move. Any children....all children got invited with a crouching play stance and a wagging tail...(RIP Nakima 1998-2011)


Edited by Streetwize (12/31/17 09:32 PM)
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#2427327 - 01/01/18 04:21 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Supercuda Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13241
Another winner and their dog

"According to the victim, the owner of the dog had brought the animal in with a muzzle but described it as "sweet as can be." The owner claimed the dog was wearing a muzzle because it had previously attacked another dog, but did not disclose that it had, in fact, mauled a 62-year-old woman only several months earlier."

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/gofundme_started_for_petsmart.html

Both need put down, imo.

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#2427383 - 01/01/18 05:43 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Supercuda]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By Supercuda
Another winner and their dog

"According to the victim, the owner of the dog had brought the animal in with a muzzle but described it as "sweet as can be." The owner claimed the dog was wearing a muzzle because it had previously attacked another dog, but did not disclose that it had, in fact, mauled a 62-year-old woman only several months earlier."

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/gofundme_started_for_petsmart.html

Both need put down, imo.



I bet the lawyers are already lining up at the victims door.

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#2427384 - 01/01/18 05:48 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
Supercuda Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13241
As responsible as that "owner" was I doubt she has any insurance or assets. Which means PetSmart will be the target and we all get to pay.

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#2427476 - 01/01/18 08:44 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Supercuda]
yorker Offline
Village Idiot

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 1792
Loc: Walmart parking lot
I got bit last month by a neighbors dog. I sometimes walk my dog past the fence and the two dogs bark at each other. Day I got bitten, did not see the dog, apperntly it was in the non fenced yard and possibly with the owner. May had been on leash. It noticed I was walking and came running to my dog. I pulled my dog away and kicked at it. Then I thought I would pick up my dog. When I reached down the dog bit my hand. Then I got on the ground and shielded my dog, only to get bit some more.
The owner pulled it off. Only some bite marks to my hand. Dog was about 45 pounds. I did not threaten the owner.
If it was a pit, or any bigger dog that would not be good. Happens in a split second.
Thought I should carry pepper spray, but not yet carrying.
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#2427535 - 01/01/18 10:18 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
irresponsible dog owners are abundant. it's a bummer.

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#2427568 - 01/01/18 11:34 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
rowin4 Offline
master

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 6078
Loc: gulfport, ms, west mi
My daughter has a Brownie scout troop. Some of the 7-8 year old girls were down town at the park selling cookies. A older couple came by with their collie dog and one of the girls asked if she could pet the dog. They said yes , the girl put here hand on the dogs back and the dog turned and bit the kid in the face. Not a Pit but any dog can attack for what ever reason they want. I'll take my cat any day.
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#2427619 - 01/02/18 06:27 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: rowin4]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By rowin4
My daughter has a Brownie scout troop. Some of the 7-8 year old girls were down town at the park selling cookies. A older couple came by with their collie dog and one of the girls asked if she could pet the dog. They said yes , the girl put here hand on the dogs back and the dog turned and bit the kid in the face. Not a Pit but any dog can attack for what ever reason they want. I'll take my cat any day.


Yes, any dog can attack but as I've said before no other dog does it like a pit.
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#2427843 - 01/02/18 02:16 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 96615
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By rowin4
My daughter has a Brownie scout troop. Some of the 7-8 year old girls were down town at the park selling cookies. A older couple came by with their collie dog and one of the girls asked if she could pet the dog. They said yes , the girl put here hand on the dogs back and the dog turned and bit the kid in the face. Not a Pit but any dog can attack for what ever reason they want. I'll take my cat any day.


Yes, any dog can attack but as I've said before no other dog does it like a pit.
And cats scratch more often than dogs bite.
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2428094 - 01/02/18 10:04 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
mopowers Offline
master

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 2838
Loc: Sac, CA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By rowin4
My daughter has a Brownie scout troop. Some of the 7-8 year old girls were down town at the park selling cookies. A older couple came by with their collie dog and one of the girls asked if she could pet the dog. They said yes , the girl put here hand on the dogs back and the dog turned and bit the kid in the face. Not a Pit but any dog can attack for what ever reason they want. I'll take my cat any day.


Yes, any dog can attack but as I've said before no other dog does it like a pit.


What makes you say that? Plenty of other dog breeds can, and do just as much damage as a pitbull-type dog if they attack.

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#2428454 - 01/03/18 05:22 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ragtopdodge Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4696
Loc: Seattle
Why do people even buy dogs.

At least 5M dogs are killed each year due to overpopulation.

Nothing wrong w/a mutt from the pound.
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#2428487 - 01/03/18 06:19 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By rowin4
My daughter has a Brownie scout troop. Some of the 7-8 year old girls were down town at the park selling cookies. A older couple came by with their collie dog and one of the girls asked if she could pet the dog. They said yes , the girl put here hand on the dogs back and the dog turned and bit the kid in the face. Not a Pit but any dog can attack for what ever reason they want. I'll take my cat any day.


Yes, any dog can attack but as I've said before no other dog does it like a pit.


What makes you say that? Plenty of other dog breeds can, and do just as much damage as a pitbull-type dog if they attack.


Look it up yourself. Pits are responsible for more level 1 trauma and fatalities than any other breed by a large margin. I've posted the links and stats many times in all the threads. Ignore it if you wish but the numbers don't lie.
_________________________
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#2428494 - 01/03/18 06:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ragtopdodge]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
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Originally Posted By ragtopdodge
Why do people even buy dogs.

At least 5M dogs are killed each year due to overpopulation.

Nothing wrong w/a mutt from the pound.


iagree All my dogs have been adopted or rescued in one form or another. Without exception they were grateful and wonderful dogs.
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The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2428625 - 01/03/18 09:28 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
mopowers Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 2838
Loc: Sac, CA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By rowin4
My daughter has a Brownie scout troop. Some of the 7-8 year old girls were down town at the park selling cookies. A older couple came by with their collie dog and one of the girls asked if she could pet the dog. They said yes , the girl put here hand on the dogs back and the dog turned and bit the kid in the face. Not a Pit but any dog can attack for what ever reason they want. I'll take my cat any day.


Yes, any dog can attack but as I've said before no other dog does it like a pit.


What makes you say that? Plenty of other dog breeds can, and do just as much damage as a pitbull-type dog if they attack.


Look it up yourself. Pits are responsible for more level 1 trauma and fatalities than any other breed by a large margin. I've posted the links and stats many times in all the threads. Ignore it if you wish but the numbers don't lie.


I'm not doubting that at all. However, the number would mean more if it was relative to their total population. For instance- if there are 20x the number of pit-type dogs than german shepard dogs but are only responsible for 10x the number of attacks, guess which one attacks at a higher rate. It'd be nice to have that type of data.


Edited by mopowers (01/03/18 09:29 PM)

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#2428747 - 01/04/18 04:22 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
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IIRC pits make up about 6% of the total dog population but are responsible for 70% of fatal dog attacks.
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#2428748 - 01/04/18 04:37 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
BIGGERED Offline
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Registered: 04/17/06
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Loc: North East USA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
IIRC pits make up about 6% of the total dog population but are responsible for 70% of fatal dog attacks.


Source of stats?

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#2428750 - 01/04/18 05:31 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ragtopdodge]
DAYCLONA Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 15713
Loc: Mass
Originally Posted By ragtopdodge
Why do people even buy dogs.

At least 5M dogs are killed each year due to overpopulation.






Complete waste of a good animal, and a good solution to feeding the homeless humans

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#2428760 - 01/04/18 06:37 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: BIGGERED]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By BIGGERED
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
IIRC pits make up about 6% of the total dog population but are responsible for 70% of fatal dog attacks.


Source of stats?


Do your own research, I'm busy and tired of trying to convince people that will just dismiss it anyway. It's just a waste of my time.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2428776 - 01/04/18 08:23 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: BIGGERED]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Here you go.

fatal dog bites

And for those of you that won't even bother to click the link let alone do some research here's a quote.

Quote:
31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2428824 - 01/04/18 09:51 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
and...here is an informative link and it might touch on mopower and biggered are thinking about.

https://www.caninejournal.com/pit-bull-facts/


Mischaracterization of the Pit Bull
Looking over the list of bully breeds above many of these breeds are unknown to general dog lovers which is perhaps one reason why so many dogs are mischaracterized as pit bulls. While these breeds all share a common ancestry and have similar features such as the flatter shorter snout, being able to distinguish between different bully breeds is important. Without being able to separate one bully breed from another, it is easy for pit bulls to be pinned as the “breed that bit that boy.” That is not to say that bully breeds, in general, are bad dogs, they just happen to be most frequently selected by bad owners. Did you know that currently only five percent of all of the dogs found across the United States are pit bulls? Overall there are approximately 78.2 million dogs throughout the United States, 3.91 million of those dogs are pit bulls. However, 40 percent of dogs in animal shelters are characterized as bully breeds, and 20 percent of those are called pit bulls.

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#2428846 - 01/04/18 10:09 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
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See, like I said, you all find a way to dismiss it. Personally I don't give a [censored] if it's a purebred APBT, or any other breed that comes from the same ancestry or some kind of mutt from the same roots. As far as I'm concerned they are all the same.
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'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2428892 - 01/04/18 11:44 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
DAYCLONA Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 15713
Loc: Mass
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
See, like I said, you all find a way to dismiss it. Personally I don't give a [censored] if it's a purebred APBT, or any other breed that comes from the same ancestry or some kind of mutt from the same roots. As far as I'm concerned they are all the same.






Agreed, "a spade is a spade, regardless of the shade"

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#2428895 - 01/04/18 11:50 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
As an Engineer I am about stats.
Either side can pull facts from dark places.
Reasonable people know there is a problem with humans (and other dogs) being attacked/bitten/maimed/disfigured/killed by certain breeds. Who cares if it's the owners fault. Numbers are numbers and it's happening. Don't stand up and expect the dogs to stop themselves. It's becoming apparent a segment of the owners of the dogs will do nothing.
Dog bites, shelter populations, shelter euthanization, illegal baiting, dog fighting, indiscriminate breeding, lack of inoculations, lack of licensure are integrated in this breed.
I agree with the above, do your own research. By denying and not investigating what is occurring leaves one incredible.
Here is one site, obviously pro-ban http://www.banpitbulls.org/what/pit-bull-numbers/
Fans of the breed do your part to protect the breed. Breed out aggressive behavior, KNOW your adoptee, take profits out of dog breeding all are a start.

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#2428899 - 01/04/18 11:59 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
Morty426 Offline
master

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 8076
Loc: Sacramento CA
Originally Posted By srt
As an Engineer I am about stats.
Either side can pull facts from dark places.
Reasonable people know there is a problem with humans (and other dogs) being attacked/bitten/maimed/disfigured/killed by certain breeds. Who cares if it's the owners fault. Numbers are numbers and it's happening. Don't stand up and expect the dogs to stop themselves. It's becoming apparent a segment of the owners of the dogs will do nothing.
Dog bites, shelter populations, shelter euthanization, illegal baiting, dog fighting, indiscriminate breeding, lack of inoculations, lack of licensure are integrated in this breed.
I agree with the above, do your own research. By denying and not investigating what is occurring leaves one incredible.
Here is one site, obviously pro-ban http://www.banpitbulls.org/what/pit-bull-numbers/
Fans of the breed do your part to protect the breed. Breed out aggressive behavior, KNOW your adoptee, take profits out of dog breeding all are a start.


:agree:

Here the animal shelter is about 95% filled with Pits. It's disgusting.

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#2428937 - 01/04/18 01:00 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Morty426]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By Morty426
Originally Posted By srt
As an Engineer I am about stats.
Either side can pull facts from dark places.
Reasonable people know there is a problem with humans (and other dogs) being attacked/bitten/maimed/disfigured/killed by certain breeds. Who cares if it's the owners fault. Numbers are numbers and it's happening. Don't stand up and expect the dogs to stop themselves. It's becoming apparent a segment of the owners of the dogs will do nothing.
Dog bites, shelter populations, shelter euthanization, illegal baiting, dog fighting, indiscriminate breeding, lack of inoculations, lack of licensure are integrated in this breed.
I agree with the above, do your own research. By denying and not investigating what is occurring leaves one incredible.
Here is one site, obviously pro-ban http://www.banpitbulls.org/what/pit-bull-numbers/
Fans of the breed do your part to protect the breed. Breed out aggressive behavior, KNOW your adoptee, take profits out of dog breeding all are a start.


:agree:

Here the animal shelter is about 95% filled with Pits. It's disgusting.


And tell you what would really piss me off is if they were euthanizing non pits to keep those pieces of excrement around.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2428942 - 01/04/18 01:08 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By srt
As an Engineer I am about stats.
Either side can pull facts from dark places.
Reasonable people know there is a problem with humans (and other dogs) being attacked/bitten/maimed/disfigured/killed by certain breeds. Who cares if it's the owners fault. Numbers are numbers and it's happening. Don't stand up and expect the dogs to stop themselves. It's becoming apparent a segment of the owners of the dogs will do nothing.
Dog bites, shelter populations, shelter euthanization, illegal baiting, dog fighting, indiscriminate breeding, lack of inoculations, lack of licensure are integrated in this breed.
I agree with the above, do your own research. By denying and not investigating what is occurring leaves one incredible.
Here is one site, obviously pro-ban http://www.banpitbulls.org/what/pit-bull-numbers/
Fans of the breed do your part to protect the breed. Breed out aggressive behavior, KNOW your adoptee, take profits out of dog breeding all are a start.


That is an eye opening link. I can't understand how any person of even ordinary intelligence can't see the disparity of attacks by pits and any other breed. Even if you add all the other breeds together it still looks disproportionate for the pits.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2428945 - 01/04/18 01:14 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
Morty426 Offline
master

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 8076
Loc: Sacramento CA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By Morty426
Originally Posted By srt
As an Engineer I am about stats.
Either side can pull facts from dark places.
Reasonable people know there is a problem with humans (and other dogs) being attacked/bitten/maimed/disfigured/killed by certain breeds. Who cares if it's the owners fault. Numbers are numbers and it's happening. Don't stand up and expect the dogs to stop themselves. It's becoming apparent a segment of the owners of the dogs will do nothing.
Dog bites, shelter populations, shelter euthanization, illegal baiting, dog fighting, indiscriminate breeding, lack of inoculations, lack of licensure are integrated in this breed.
I agree with the above, do your own research. By denying and not investigating what is occurring leaves one incredible.
Here is one site, obviously pro-ban http://www.banpitbulls.org/what/pit-bull-numbers/
Fans of the breed do your part to protect the breed. Breed out aggressive behavior, KNOW your adoptee, take profits out of dog breeding all are a start.


:agree:

Here the animal shelter is about 95% filled with Pits. It's disgusting.


And tell you what would really piss me off is if they were euthanizing non pits to keep those pieces of excrement around.



I don't think that is happening, at least not at this shelter. The non pits appear to be finding homes quickly.

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#2428946 - 01/04/18 01:15 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
flypaper Offline
I hate Texas

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 18604
Loc: jersey shore
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones


That is an eye opening link. I can't understand how any person of even ordinary intelligence can't see


and where are you posting this??? wink
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#2428998 - 01/04/18 03:10 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: flypaper]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By flypaper
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones


That is an eye opening link. I can't understand how any person of even ordinary intelligence can't see


and where are you posting this??? wink


You're right, I lost my head for a second there. laugh2
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2429146 - 01/04/18 04:44 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
it's always eye opening to see dismal efforts of people to actually care for their animals...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dog...kushpmg00000009

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#2429157 - 01/04/18 05:12 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
StukaJU87 Offline
top fuel

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 2487
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By krautrock
it's always eye opening to see dismal efforts of people to actually care for their animals...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dog...kushpmg00000009


This, I think we can all agree on. I am a really understanding person, but I'll never come to grips with people who can hurt or harm children or animals. Hunting or fishing for food aside....and I am not a hunter andbarely fish.
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1969 Super Bee, 383/4 speed

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#2429190 - 01/04/18 07:03 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
I'd like to add that we have adopted 7 (maybe 8) dogs over the past 30 years. We frequented both county shelters and privately run rescues. Without exception every facility was filled with a majority (80%+) of pit (type optional) and pit (type optional) mix dogs. A high % of those were unneutered/unspayed and a majority of the bi*ches were with puppies or recently lactating (sagging greatly).
My estimation is that slightly over half were described as being shepard mix, hound mix, etc., anything bu pit (type optional) mix. At first glance nearly all appeared to be pit (type optional). Seldom did one even barely resemble the identified mix, save for some with the "hound' mix moniker.
My feeling on this is that the shelters/rescues are doing everything possible to get these dogs back with owners that will give them a good life. I'm pretty sure some bad apples get re-homed even though a majority of the "bad" dogs are culled out.
Here is an example of a dog adopted out after being identified as a pharoah mix. Clearly a pit mix with large ears. In my mind the shelter was derelict.
pharoah or pit<-Click
Pharoahs look like a dingo hound mix, pits, well most know what they look like.

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#2429230 - 01/04/18 08:17 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: StukaJU87]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By StukaJU87
Originally Posted By krautrock
it's always eye opening to see dismal efforts of people to actually care for their animals...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dog...kushpmg00000009


This, I think we can all agree on. I am a really understanding person, but I'll never come to grips with people who can hurt or harm children or animals. Hunting or fishing for food aside....and I am not a hunter andbarely fish.


The world is full of psychopaths, sociopaths and stupid ignorant people. Has been forever. It's sad, I hate that anyone can abuse an animal, child or the elderly. Sadly though it's nothing new and I don't think the penalties for doing so are anywhere near harsh enough.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2429261 - 01/04/18 09:13 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
mopowers Offline
master

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 2838
Loc: Sac, CA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Here you go.

fatal dog bites

And for those of you that won't even bother to click the link let alone do some research here's a quote.

Quote:
31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.




The numbers in the chart on the website don't mean much without listing the total numbers of the other dogs (or at least the percentage of them relative to the total dog population in the US) on the list. For instance, if there are ~11x the number of pits in the US than, say beligian malinois, they are equally dangerous Pits killed 22 people vs 2 for the BM). Same with the other breeds listed in that chart.

I wouldn't doubt for a second there are at least 11x the number of pits in the US than belgian malinois, dobermans, GSDs, and other listed in that chart.

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#2429292 - 01/04/18 10:45 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Originally Posted By mopowers
.... For instance, if there are ~11x the number of pits in the US than, say beligian malinois, they are equally dangerous Pits killed 22 people vs 2 for the BM). ....


This is a good point: owners/breeders/fanciers of this and other breeds have kept them rather exclusive. Special breeds require special handling. Pits have become vogue for a reason that may not be benign. The owners of pit (type) dogs have created a population explosion of pure and cross bred dogs that can be more than the casual owner expects.
How many times has anyone seen a box of Belgium Malinois pups being given away by kids outside a Walmart? How often has one been seen in a shelter or rescue?
Statistics aside should there be no pitbulls their fans would be attracted to other breeds and many more people would be alive and many more without disfigurement.

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#2429356 - 01/05/18 05:43 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Here you go.

fatal dog bites

And for those of you that won't even bother to click the link let alone do some research here's a quote.

Quote:
31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.






The numbers in the chart on the website don't mean much without listing the total numbers of the other dogs (or at least the percentage of them relative to the total dog population in the US) on the list. For instance, if there are ~11x the number of pits in the US than, say beligian malinois, they are equally dangerous Pits killed 22 people vs 2 for the BM). Same with the other breeds listed in that chart.

I wouldn't doubt for a second there are at least 11x the number of pits in the US than belgian malinois, dobermans, GSDs, and other listed in that chart.


Well, do some research and find out. What I found quickly from the AKC site, because my time is very limited, is that the Belgian Malinois is the 47th most popular dog breed. The pit bull is 82nd if that tells you anything.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2429358 - 01/05/18 05:56 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Supercuda]
not_a_charger Offline

Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 14013
Loc: Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
Quote:
the owner of the dog had brought the animal in with a muzzle but described it as "sweet as can be."


They always are...right up until they aren't.
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”

― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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#2429409 - 01/05/18 09:51 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
...AKC...the Belgian Malinois is the 47th most popular dog breed. The pit bull is 82nd.....

Can one infer that among akc members (aficionados of purebred pedigreed dogs) there are more akc registered malinois than pit bull? Would this also indicate there are less unregistered malinois than pit bulls?
I believe there is a higher percentage of pedigreed malinois than pit bulls. Is the unpedigreed portion of the population where problems manifest?
Unfortunately, the majority of people owning pit (type) dogs are breeding traits and encouraging behavior into the breed that far surpass the average owners ability to control.

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#2429422 - 01/05/18 10:21 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
mopowers Offline
master

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 2838
Loc: Sac, CA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Here you go.

fatal dog bites

And for those of you that won't even bother to click the link let alone do some research here's a quote.

Quote:
31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.






The numbers in the chart on the website don't mean much without listing the total numbers of the other dogs (or at least the percentage of them relative to the total dog population in the US) on the list. For instance, if there are ~11x the number of pits in the US than, say beligian malinois, they are equally dangerous Pits killed 22 people vs 2 for the BM). Same with the other breeds listed in that chart.

I wouldn't doubt for a second there are at least 11x the number of pits in the US than belgian malinois, dobermans, GSDs, and other listed in that chart.


Well, do some research and find out. What I found quickly from the AKC site, because my time is very limited, is that the Belgian Malinois is the 47th most popular dog breed. The pit bull is 82nd if that tells you anything.


Oh geeze, those AKC numbers don't mean squat.

First, "pit bull" is not even a breed of dog, so how can the AKC even recognize it as such? It doesn't.

Second, the number of fatal attacks cited by your other source likely lumped 5-6 or even more breeds together in the "pit bull" category (not to mention any mixes that get lumped into their "pit" category because they have similar physical traits and people don't know what breed they are). Thus, their populations need to be summed as well.

Third, those AKC numbers you pulled are likely based on registered dogs. Personally I don't know any dogs registered in the AKC, regardless of breed.

Lastly, do you really think there are more belgian malinois dogs in the US than pit-type dogs? LOL

All I'm saying that I've yet to see any numbers that show pit-type dogs are more likely to attack people than all other breeds based on their relative percentage of the dog population (per dog-capita, so to speak).

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#2429429 - 01/05/18 10:50 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
DaytonaTurbo Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 20823
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By krautrock
irresponsible dog owners are abundant. it's a bummer.


It is. It's gotten to the point that I hate most dog owners. I don't let mine roam or bark but most other dog owners here don't seem to care if theirs do.

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#2429433 - 01/05/18 11:08 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By srt
I'd like to add that we have adopted 7 (maybe 8) dogs over the past 30 years. We frequented both county shelters and privately run rescues. Without exception every facility was filled with a majority (80%+) of pit (type optional) and pit (type optional) mix dogs. A high % of those were unneutered/unspayed and a majority of the bi*ches were with puppies or recently lactating (sagging greatly).
My estimation is that slightly over half were described as being shepard mix, hound mix, etc., anything bu pit (type optional) mix. At first glance nearly all appeared to be pit (type optional). Seldom did one even barely resemble the identified mix, save for some with the "hound' mix moniker.
My feeling on this is that the shelters/rescues are doing everything possible to get these dogs back with owners that will give them a good life. I'm pretty sure some bad apples get re-homed even though a majority of the "bad" dogs are culled out.
Here is an example of a dog adopted out after being identified as a pharoah mix. Clearly a pit mix with large ears. In my mind the shelter was derelict.
pharoah or pit<-Click
Pharoahs look like a dingo hound mix, pits, well most know what they look like.


i'm not disputing anything you said here, but i want to point out. the little pompom probably wouldn't have fared much better if the dog were a Pharoah Dog as it looks like that's a breed bred and used for hunting rabbits...

i guess my point is, people should do some real research before acquiring dogs so they know they are getting a dog that fits their lifestyle, family situation and the effort they wish to invest in training...

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#2429441 - 01/05/18 11:21 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
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Originally Posted By mopowers
Oh geeze, those AKC numbers don't mean squat.

First, "pit bull" is not even a breed of dog, so how can the AKC even recognize it as such? It doesn't.

Second, the number of fatal attacks cited by your other source likely lumped 5-6 or even more breeds together in the "pit bull" category (not to mention any mixes that get lumped into their "pit" category because they have similar physical traits and people don't know what breed they are). Thus, their populations need to be summed as well.

Third, those AKC numbers you pulled are likely based on registered dogs. Personally I don't know any dogs registered in the AKC, regardless of breed.

Lastly, do you really think there are more belgian malinois dogs in the US than pit-type dogs? LOL

All I'm saying that I've yet to see any numbers that show pit-type dogs are more likely to attack people than all other breeds based on their relative percentage of the dog population (per dog-capita, so to speak).


Well if you were smart enough to do your own research you would know I used the Staffordshire Bull Terrier for those numbers. The American Staffordshire Bull Terrier was 81st.

So if you don't like my research do your own!
_________________________
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'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2429448 - 01/05/18 11:43 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By mopowers
Oh geeze, those AKC numbers don't mean squat.

First, "pit bull" is not even a breed of dog, so how can the AKC even recognize it as such? It doesn't.

Second, the number of fatal attacks cited by your other source likely lumped 5-6 or even more breeds together in the "pit bull" category (not to mention any mixes that get lumped into their "pit" category because they have similar physical traits and people don't know what breed they are). Thus, their populations need to be summed as well.

Third, those AKC numbers you pulled are likely based on registered dogs. Personally I don't know any dogs registered in the AKC, regardless of breed.

Lastly, do you really think there are more belgian malinois dogs in the US than pit-type dogs? LOL

All I'm saying that I've yet to see any numbers that show pit-type dogs are more likely to attack people than all other breeds based on their relative percentage of the dog population (per dog-capita, so to speak).


Well if you were smart enough to do your own research you would know I used the Staffordshire Bull Terrier for those numbers. The American Staffordshire Bull Terrier was 81st.

So if you don't like my research do your own!


oh man such a sick burn!!

you completely missed his point.
also, since you were just so focused on the details of 81st vs. 82nd... there is no such thing as an AKC registered American Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

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#2429461 - 01/05/18 12:24 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
mopowers Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By mopowers
Oh geeze, those AKC numbers don't mean squat.

First, "pit bull" is not even a breed of dog, so how can the AKC even recognize it as such? It doesn't.

Second, the number of fatal attacks cited by your other source likely lumped 5-6 or even more breeds together in the "pit bull" category (not to mention any mixes that get lumped into their "pit" category because they have similar physical traits and people don't know what breed they are). Thus, their populations need to be summed as well.

Third, those AKC numbers you pulled are likely based on registered dogs. Personally I don't know any dogs registered in the AKC, regardless of breed.

Lastly, do you really think there are more belgian malinois dogs in the US than pit-type dogs? LOL

All I'm saying that I've yet to see any numbers that show pit-type dogs are more likely to attack people than all other breeds based on their relative percentage of the dog population (per dog-capita, so to speak).


Well if you were smart enough to do your own research you would know I used the Staffordshire Bull Terrier for those numbers. The American Staffordshire Bull Terrier was 81st.

So if you don't like my research do your own!


I have done my research and can't seem to find the numbers. Neither can you apparently. The problem is, every site that would have any data is extremely biased towards one side or the other.

Those are two breeds of the many that are lumped into the "pit" category. They must ALL be summed (with mixes) if they're summed for the the "fatal bite" numbers. Where are the numbers? Not the rankings.

Absolute attack numbers don't mean squat with out having the population statistics to put them into perspective- something that the media tends to completely omit.


Edited by mopowers (01/05/18 12:29 PM)

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#2429463 - 01/05/18 12:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
mopowers Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
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Originally Posted By krautrock


oh man such a sick burn!!

you completely missed his point.
also, since you were just so focused on the details of 81st vs. 82nd... there is no such thing as an AKC registered American Staffordshire Bull Terrier.


He really did miss the point didn't he? Maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough. Oh well. Dogs suck! LOL

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#2429528 - 01/05/18 02:34 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By mopowers
Oh geeze, those AKC numbers don't mean squat.

First, "pit bull" is not even a breed of dog, so how can the AKC even recognize it as such? It doesn't.

Second, the number of fatal attacks cited by your other source likely lumped 5-6 or even more breeds together in the "pit bull" category (not to mention any mixes that get lumped into their "pit" category because they have similar physical traits and people don't know what breed they are). Thus, their populations need to be summed as well.

Third, those AKC numbers you pulled are likely based on registered dogs. Personally I don't know any dogs registered in the AKC, regardless of breed.

Lastly, do you really think there are more belgian malinois dogs in the US than pit-type dogs? LOL

All I'm saying that I've yet to see any numbers that show pit-type dogs are more likely to attack people than all other breeds based on their relative percentage of the dog population (per dog-capita, so to speak).


Well if you were smart enough to do your own research you would know I used the Staffordshire Bull Terrier for those numbers. The American Staffordshire Bull Terrier was 81st.

So if you don't like my research do your own!


oh man such a sick burn!!

you completely missed his point.
also, since you were just so focused on the details of 81st vs. 82nd... there is no such thing as an AKC registered American Staffordshire Bull Terrier.


Oh get over yourself.
_________________________
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'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2429531 - 01/05/18 02:36 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By mopowers
Oh geeze, those AKC numbers don't mean squat.

First, "pit bull" is not even a breed of dog, so how can the AKC even recognize it as such? It doesn't.

Second, the number of fatal attacks cited by your other source likely lumped 5-6 or even more breeds together in the "pit bull" category (not to mention any mixes that get lumped into their "pit" category because they have similar physical traits and people don't know what breed they are). Thus, their populations need to be summed as well.

Third, those AKC numbers you pulled are likely based on registered dogs. Personally I don't know any dogs registered in the AKC, regardless of breed.

Lastly, do you really think there are more belgian malinois dogs in the US than pit-type dogs? LOL

All I'm saying that I've yet to see any numbers that show pit-type dogs are more likely to attack people than all other breeds based on their relative percentage of the dog population (per dog-capita, so to speak).


Well if you were smart enough to do your own research you would know I used the Staffordshire Bull Terrier for those numbers. The American Staffordshire Bull Terrier was 81st.

So if you don't like my research do your own!


I have done my research and can't seem to find the numbers. Neither can you apparently. The problem is, every site that would have any data is extremely biased towards one side or the other.

Those are two breeds of the many that are lumped into the "pit" category. They must ALL be summed (with mixes) if they're summed for the the "fatal bite" numbers. Where are the numbers? Not the rankings.

Absolute attack numbers don't mean squat with out having the population statistics to put them into perspective- something that the media tends to completely omit.



Didn't miss the point at all. The fact is as I said before I don't give a [censored] what you call it. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a friggin duck.

http://www.animals24-7.org/2016/07/29/2016-survey-list-of-top-5-u-s-dog-breed-types-ousts-pit-bulls/
_________________________
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'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2429745 - 01/05/18 10:53 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Discussing this issue is moot.
Denying that there is a problem with pit (type) and/or some pit (type) owners
is absurd.
Best option be for aficionados of the breed to do something about it's temperament by selective breeding. That that is doubtful. Only a small percentage profiting from breeding are likely screen prospective owners. Some owners don't limit litters and add to overpopulation and the euthanasia business.
Once again, if the fans of the breed don't do something society will.

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#2429753 - 01/05/18 11:03 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA

I've seen that site. Not really a good measure as it does nothing to include dogs given away.
I write this as I just 20 min ago set a trap to capture a thin muddy and wet great pyrenees that's been running loose for weeks. I live in a rural area with lots of green growers, the crops are gone, now their discards lay strewn across the countryside as dead batteries, empty fertilizer, herbicide, rodentcide, and of course guard dogs of the large and mean types. Unfortunately many dogs are shot dead by other ranch owners. I'll try to capture this feral animal that's been damaging my fences. I hope once I have him he does not rip my face or arm off.

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#2429769 - 01/05/18 11:55 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
rowin4 Offline
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Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 6078
Loc: gulfport, ms, west mi
Originally Posted By srt

I've seen that site. Not really a good measure as it does nothing to include dogs given away.
I write this as I just 20 min ago set a trap to capture a thin muddy and wet great pyrenees that's been running loose for weeks. I live in a rural area with lots of green growers, the crops are gone, now their discards lay strewn across the countryside as dead batteries, empty fertilizer, herbicide, rodentcide, and of course guard dogs of the large and mean types. Unfortunately many dogs are shot dead by other ranch owners. I'll try to capture this feral animal that's been damaging my fences. I hope once I have him he does not rip my face or arm off.



So, what are you going to do with the dog after you capture it? Try to domesticate it? take it to the Humane society? Just feed it and let it run wild?
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#2429778 - 01/06/18 12:47 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Keep it from getting run over on a busy road that's near our place, get it out of the freezing and/or wet weather. Get if fed, inoculated. Maybe give it a good home along with our other two re-homed discards.
I'm actualy trying to keep it away from the shelter. Our neighbor has 3 goats and the dog seems to be gravitating to them. Unfortunately that character screams, yells and throws things at the dog making him very skittish. I'm starting to get through to the dog. Been able to get him to eat a couple times. He's taken to barking to let me know he's around. I found his path across our cross fenced property and have a trap set there tonight. checking it regularly. Old school friend is a vet and I have her in contact should I get him and need her to dumb him up a little with some sedative. He's going to be a handful I'm thinking over 100 lbs of aloof dog may be more than I can handle.

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#2429779 - 01/06/18 12:47 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By srt

I've seen that site. Not really a good measure as it does nothing to include dogs given away.


I agree their method is questionable at best but it's all I can come up with in the few minutes I have.

We have one guy that is stuck on percentages, and another on semantics because in my haste I mistakenly added Bull to a dog's breed name. Maybe they missed the part where I said I was busy and didn't have the time. Either way their objections are merely a diversion tactic.

_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2429789 - 01/06/18 01:14 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Technicalities! I often post without carefully proofreading. I have neuropathy, and it would appear I am 7 sheets when I write. I don't drink, or use legal or illegal drugs, just type away with 3 fingers, one thumb, and post.
Regardless, there is a huge problem with overly aggressive dogs of a certain type, but also a huge problem with irresponsible pet ownership. One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch, that is unless the bad apples are left to rot the rest. Saying it's a good apple repeatedly won't change a thing. Society has abatement processes for a reason. Laws become an extension of abatement should bad things manifest.

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#2429905 - 01/06/18 10:55 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
mopowers Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 2838
Loc: Sac, CA
Originally Posted By srt
Technicalities! I often post without carefully proofreading. I have neuropathy, and it would appear I am 7 sheets when I write. I don't drink, or use legal or illegal drugs, just type away with 3 fingers, one thumb, and post.
Regardless, there is a huge problem with overly aggressive dogs of a certain type, but also a huge problem with irresponsible pet ownership. One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch, that is unless the bad apples are left to rot the rest. Saying it's a good apple repeatedly won't change a thing. Society has abatement processes for a reason. Laws become an extension of abatement should bad things manifest.


I agree. Unfortunately, some people see a random news report and form hasty opinions without digging a little deeper to actually understand the root of the problem.

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#2429933 - 01/06/18 11:22 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Here's my fence breaching culprit this morning. He didn't go through the area with trap, hopefully soon. Our lab is close to 80#. The Pyrenees is thin, filled in I bet he's going to be 120#+.
I hope I can tame him down, really a beautiful young dog.


Attachments
1 a a slydog.jpg



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#2430039 - 01/06/18 01:46 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By srt
Technicalities! I often post without carefully proofreading. I have neuropathy, and it would appear I am 7 sheets when I write. I don't drink, or use legal or illegal drugs, just type away with 3 fingers, one thumb, and post.
Regardless, there is a huge problem with overly aggressive dogs of a certain type, but also a huge problem with irresponsible pet ownership. One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch, that is unless the bad apples are left to rot the rest. Saying it's a good apple repeatedly won't change a thing. Society has abatement processes for a reason. Laws become an extension of abatement should bad things manifest.


I agree. Unfortunately, some people see a random news report and form hasty opinions without digging a little deeper to actually understand the root of the problem.


It certainly isn't just a random news report. I have living (luckily) proof of what a pit can do to a human in my house. That is why I started looking for stats and numbers on severity and frequency of attacks.

So quite frankly I don't give a crap about what percentage of the population they are or whether its called an American Staffordshire Bull Terrier, a Staffordshire Terrier, a pit bull or any other name. To me they are not fit to reside in a residential neighborhood. My fiance will never be whole again.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2430059 - 01/06/18 02:48 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
I'm rather of the same thought of GJones.
The pits and/or pit type dogs have been interbred so much most of them might best be called mutts.
If the people that are fans of the pit and pit type breeds don't do something society will.
I'm becoming more and more like someone else that repeats themselves over and over. Some are right, others wrong.

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#2430258 - 01/06/18 09:09 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
mopowers Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 2838
Loc: Sac, CA
Originally Posted By srt
I'm rather of the same thought of GJones.
The pits and/or pit type dogs have been interbred so much most of them might best be called mutts.
If the people that are fans of the pit and pit type breeds don't do something society will.
I'm becoming more and more like someone else that repeats themselves over and over. Some are right, others wrong.


I hear ya. Unfortunately, if not pits, it would easily be a number of other types of dogs. Where does it stop?

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#2430265 - 01/06/18 09:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
amxautox Online   content
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

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Posts: 96615
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Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By srt
I'm rather of the same thought of GJones.
The pits and/or pit type dogs have been interbred so much most of them might best be called mutts.
If the people that are fans of the pit and pit type breeds don't do something society will.
I'm becoming more and more like someone else that repeats themselves over and over. Some are right, others wrong.


I hear ya. Unfortunately, if not pits, it would easily be a number of other types of dogs. Where does it stop?
By getting rid of certain people?
_________________________
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2430340 - 01/06/18 11:57 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
mopowers Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
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LOL Amen!

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#2430393 - 01/07/18 05:50 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopowers]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
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Originally Posted By mopowers
Originally Posted By srt
I'm rather of the same thought of GJones.
The pits and/or pit type dogs have been interbred so much most of them might best be called mutts.
If the people that are fans of the pit and pit type breeds don't do something society will.
I'm becoming more and more like someone else that repeats themselves over and over. Some are right, others wrong.


I hear ya. Unfortunately, if not pits, it would easily be a number of other types of dogs. Where does it stop?


If you bred those characteristics out of the pits then they are useless for what they were bred for. Are you going to go hog hunting with a Yorkie?
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2430421 - 01/07/18 09:02 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
That is ludicrous to think many pit types are being bred for hog hunting.
Tell me what purpose or use a majority of people are breeding pit types.
Would it have anything to do with indiscriminate breeding of un neutered/spayed dogs to make $. It's surely not for hog hunting or show dogs. More than likely it's for bad azz companion dogs that are bored of laying around the house where a good number of them become pound fodder.

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#2430432 - 01/07/18 09:35 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By srt
That is ludicrous to think many pit types are being bred for hog hunting.
Tell me what purpose or use a majority of people are breeding pit types.
Would it have anything to do with indiscriminate breeding of un neutered/spayed dogs to make $. It's surely not for hog hunting or show dogs. More than likely it's for bad azz companion dogs that are bored of laying around the house where a good number of them become pound fodder.


Hog hunting, and herding of feral cattle is what they have been primarily used for as well as dog fighting and bull baiting before they became popular with the thug type crowd. Those initial breeding traits is what makes the dog desirable to those that want a bad ass dog.

So take that away and what do you have? Just a stupid useless ugly dog.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2430452 - 01/07/18 10:08 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ScottSmith_Harms Online   content
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 41923
Loc: Spokane Washington
Quote:
Hog hunting, and herding of feral cattle is what they have been primarily used for as well as dog fighting and bull baiting


Yes, all extremely important activities, far more important than the safety of human beings. dino

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#2430483 - 01/07/18 10:58 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Registered: 12/18/09
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Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
Quote:
Hog hunting, and herding of feral cattle is what they have been primarily used for as well as dog fighting and bull baiting


Yes, all extremely important activities, far more important than the safety of human beings. dino


Like I've said, if you live on a farm or in a rural area and have a legitimate use for them ok, but they don't belong in residential neighborhoods. They were never meant to be family pets or guard dogs. They are attack dogs.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2430503 - 01/07/18 11:34 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
mopowers Offline
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Originally Posted By srt
That is ludicrous to think many pit types are being bred for hog hunting.


I agree. Maybe folks believe certain breeds should be banned because of what they were historically bred for. If that's the case, they oughta take a hard look at boxers, akitas, american bull dogs, rhodesian ridgebacks, and numerous others historically bred for the same purpose. As they can see, that argument carries no weight. I say we just limit the breeding of certain people instead.

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#2430506 - 01/07/18 11:43 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ScottSmith_Harms Online   content
Mr Wizzard

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 41923
Loc: Spokane Washington
Quote:
they oughta take a hard look at boxers, akitas, american bull dogs, rhodesian ridgebacks, and numerous others historically bred for the same purpose


Sounds like a good start!

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#2430530 - 01/07/18 12:23 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
I think what is being overlooked is that historically dogs were bred for a purpose, generally some type of working ethic was instilled by selective breeding.
Today there are working dogs, yet a majority have become more akin to fashion accessories.
There are segments of the human population that continue to breed for maximum performance. Be it hunting dog, ratter, search and rescue, show, ranching, police and military, guide, companion and guarding property or stock. Some ethnicities might even breed for human consumption and for baiting or tearing up other living things.
Unfortunately, as a people living in a "civilized" country we frown on eating our pets and seeing our pets tear apart other living things. There are segments here that probably yet eat dogs and that enjoy seeing dogs do their duty tearing other dogs or animals apart. Sad but true.
Saving a breed takes education (we eat beef, fowl, hogs, and fish, not dogs and it's illegal to bait and fight dogs, and also to harbor dangerous animals).
Dogs can be selectively bred to encourage desirable traits. The problem is the segment of our population that finds some traits modern society has found undesirable, desirable.

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#2430605 - 01/07/18 02:29 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
mopars4ever Offline
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Posts: 10878
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Quote:
boxers, akitas, american bull dogs, rhodesian ridgebacks
those don`t seem to be in the daily news for killing people.

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#2431155 - 01/08/18 02:28 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By srt
That is ludicrous to think many pit types are being bred for hog hunting.
Tell me what purpose or use a majority of people are breeding pit types.
Would it have anything to do with indiscriminate breeding of un neutered/spayed dogs to make $. It's surely not for hog hunting or show dogs. More than likely it's for bad azz companion dogs that are bored of laying around the house where a good number of them become pound fodder.


Hog hunting, and herding of feral cattle is what they have been primarily used for as well as dog fighting and bull baiting before they became popular with the thug type crowd. Those initial breeding traits is what makes the dog desirable to those that want a bad ass dog.

So take that away and what do you have? Just a stupid useless ugly dog.


you keep talkiing about what they were bred for while ignoring the temperament that was also targeted while breeding. to this day, that temperament is still a part of their bloodlines.

Do I need to point it out once again so you can say it doesn't matter?
they are people-oriented dogs...
http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/american-staffordshire-terrier/detail/

the point is, any large dog that isn't trained, or is neglected, or chained up in a yard is a possible dangerous dog. I'm not some advocate for every person in the world owning a bully breed. But, to say the dogs are worse than any other large breed is just being misinformed. guitarjones, you are reading biased websites about how bad the dogs are because that's what you want to hear.
You think your lady would've fared any better in that situation if there was a big german shepherd in that house? or maybe a big wolf/husky mix? what about a 130lb great pyrenees?



Edited by krautrock (01/08/18 02:30 PM)

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#2431172 - 01/08/18 03:20 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
From the akc site "The dog's chief requisites should be strength unusual for his size, soundness, balance, a strong powerful head, a well-muscled body, and courage that is proverbial.", "Breeders in this country (USA) had developed a type which is heavier in weight than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England and the name change was to distinguish them as separate breeds.", "The Am Staff is a people-oriented dog that thrives when he is made part of the family and given a job to do. Regular exercise and training are necessary......... A stubborn-streak can make them difficult to train at times and will require patience and a firm, but kind, hand.", and "His
courage is proverbial.".
Let this from the Official Site of the Staffordshire Terrier Club of America be an important disclosure to anybody considering the breed: "Breed info - Strong, athletic, intelligent and driven to please, the Am Staff can excel at just about anything asked of it, including, but not limited to agility, conformation showing, carting, packing, therapy work, search & rescue, and protection work. The Am Staff can be strong willed, exuberant and impulsive while remaining quite sensitive. Training is most successful when kept fun and diverse. The owner must attain pack leader status at an early age and not let this diminish as the puppy matures. Another imperative step to raising a well-adjusted Am Staff is to heavily socialize puppies and young adults with lots of other dogs. This should always be done in controlled environments with dogs of known temperaments. In general, an Am Staff should not be left alone with other dogs. Dog aggression is something that can develop in even well-socialized dogs. Aggression towards humans in this breed in non-threatening situations should never be seen. They are very good with children, but keep in mind children and dogs of any breed should never be left alone together.".
Now to bring this to the reality of what exists. Known by fanciers to be very game breeders and fanciers have approved all the above to be posted on the respective (akc and astca) internet sites. A minority of these dogs are owned by akc or astca members. There are a great number of people breeding an selling the dogs outside the purview of the clubs. The clubs are left with the job of beating down legislation and adverse public opinion of their dogs due to others that have no interest in docile pets. It is up to the clubs to insure their members and their products don't become detriment to society.
A good start would be to reduce that amount of public resource spent housing, destroying, treating injuries, investigating, legislating and litigating.
Read and weep: http://saveabullmn.org/pit-bulls-and-euthanasia-rates/

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#2431218 - 01/08/18 05:09 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By srt
From the akc site "The dog's chief requisites should be strength unusual for his size, soundness, balance, a strong powerful head, a well-muscled body, and courage that is proverbial.", "Breeders in this country (USA) had developed a type which is heavier in weight than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England and the name change was to distinguish them as separate breeds.", "The Am Staff is a people-oriented dog that thrives when he is made part of the family and given a job to do. Regular exercise and training are necessary......... A stubborn-streak can make them difficult to train at times and will require patience and a firm, but kind, hand.", and "His
courage is proverbial.".
Let this from the Official Site of the Staffordshire Terrier Club of America be an important disclosure to anybody considering the breed: "Breed info - Strong, athletic, intelligent and driven to please, the Am Staff can excel at just about anything asked of it, including, but not limited to agility, conformation showing, carting, packing, therapy work, search & rescue, and protection work. The Am Staff can be strong willed, exuberant and impulsive while remaining quite sensitive. Training is most successful when kept fun and diverse. The owner must attain pack leader status at an early age and not let this diminish as the puppy matures. Another imperative step to raising a well-adjusted Am Staff is to heavily socialize puppies and young adults with lots of other dogs. This should always be done in controlled environments with dogs of known temperaments. In general, an Am Staff should not be left alone with other dogs. Dog aggression is something that can develop in even well-socialized dogs. Aggression towards humans in this breed in non-threatening situations should never be seen. They are very good with children, but keep in mind children and dogs of any breed should never be left alone together.".
Now to bring this to the reality of what exists. Known by fanciers to be very game breeders and fanciers have approved all the above to be posted on the respective (akc and astca) internet sites. A minority of these dogs are owned by akc or astca members. There are a great number of people breeding an selling the dogs outside the purview of the clubs. The clubs are left with the job of beating down legislation and adverse public opinion of their dogs due to others that have no interest in docile pets. It is up to the clubs to insure their members and their products don't become detriment to society.
A good start would be to reduce that amount of public resource spent housing, destroying, treating injuries, investigating, legislating and litigating.
Read and weep: http://saveabullmn.org/pit-bulls-and-euthanasia-rates/
In other words, they are;

stubborn

stupid

AGGRESSIVE

VERY untrustworthy!!!!!!
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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#2431240 - 01/08/18 05:40 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


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Posts: 8815
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I find it interesting through all the dialog it's known they can be considered a poor choice for the general pet owner. The ownership groups publish veiled descriptions likely vetted by lawyers. What will the owners do to insure the breed can be maintained. To ignore obvious traits and allow them to continue (the breed and owners) is negligent.
I will go so far to say that the "average owner" and not the "purists" (if that's a good distinction) will most often extol the bred to be great, stable, predictable. In the right hand and environment maybe. Personally, I rather not live with a landmine in my home.

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#2431256 - 01/08/18 05:56 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
krautrock Offline
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Originally Posted By srt
Personally, I rather not live with a landmine in my home.


make the dog part of your family and learn how to train it and you don't have to worry...that goes for any breed.

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#2431297 - 01/08/18 07:11 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


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Agreed! Our dogs are at my feet right now. I've never trained a dog by hitting, only praise. 5 of our most recent6 dogs were rehomed as young adults with bad manners due to lack of training, all of them became obedient can do dogs. I've worked with pit (type) owned by family members and friends and have always found them slow to learn and more trouble than they are worth (in my opinion). The type of breeding going on is the downside of 21st century pit(types).

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#2431300 - 01/08/18 07:16 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
ScottSmith_Harms Online   content
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Quote:
make the dog part of your family and learn how to train it and you don't have to worry...that goes for any breed.


....Except for a Pit, those you will always need to worry that thier basic instincts might kick in without warning and that it might bite the face off of anyone that dares to pet it.

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#2431301 - 01/08/18 07:18 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
Quote:
make the dog part of your family and learn how to train it and you don't have to worry...that goes for any breed.


....Except for a Pit, those you will always need to worry that thier basic instincts might kick in without warning and that it might bite the face off of anyone that dares to pet it.
Pit dogs CAN think for themselves;

"Do I bite, or do I BITE"


That's it.
_________________________
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2431307 - 01/08/18 07:24 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
azmopar Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
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Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By srt
Personally, I rather not live with a landmine in my home.


make the dog part of your family and learn how to train it and you don't have to worry...that goes for any breed.


maybe, but until YOU witness a pair of pits SHRED another dog or person to pieces, uh uh no way in my house or yard .

ive seen it up close and personal
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#2431319 - 01/08/18 07:41 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: azmopar]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
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Originally Posted By azmopar
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By srt
Personally, I rather not live with a landmine in my home.


make the dog part of your family and learn how to train it and you don't have to worry...that goes for any breed.


maybe, but until YOU witness a pair of pits SHRED another dog or person to pieces, uh uh no way in my house or yard .

ive seen it up close and personal


And that is what they do. Krautrock you keep trying to compare these dogs to others and it just doesn't work because, (and this is the frigging truth you all will not admit to or acknowledge but you know it's true) is that once a pit decides to attack it's not stopping, it's going for the kill. I've seen them being beat with 2x4's and they are not stopping. Like I said before, if I hit any other dog with a baseball bat in the head it's going to stop what ever it's doing. Not so with a pit and you know it.

So from now on any pit that comes in my yard is getting a 9mm hollow point in its skull. Same goes for any that aggressively move towards me or my lady.
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#2431523 - 01/09/18 08:04 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: DAYCLONA]
ragtopdodge Offline
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Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By ragtopdodge
Why do people even buy dogs.

At least 5M dogs are killed each year due to overpopulation.






Complete waste of a good animal, and a good solution to feeding the homeless humans


Are you Korean?
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#2431526 - 01/09/18 08:13 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
EV2Bird Online   penguin-006
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Alot of the same things posted about here apply to certain races and demographics of people but we can beat them in the head with a bat.

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#2431538 - 01/09/18 09:11 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: ragtopdodge]
DAYCLONA Online   content
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Originally Posted By ragtopdodge
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By ragtopdodge
Why do people even buy dogs.

At least 5M dogs are killed each year due to overpopulation.






Complete waste of a good animal, and a good solution to feeding the homeless humans


Are you Korean?






No, but I have been in SE Asia, and probably ate dog unknowingly amongst all the other critters I enjoyed eating, as it's just meat...

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#2431542 - 01/09/18 09:23 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: DAYCLONA]
srt Offline


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Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
it's just meat...

that's been killed in a manner that provides that use

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#2431567 - 01/09/18 10:09 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones


And that is what they do. Krautrock you keep trying to compare these dogs to others and it just doesn't work because, (and this is the frigging truth you all will not admit to or acknowledge but you know it's true) is that once a pit decides to attack it's not stopping, it's going for the kill. I've seen them being beat with 2x4's and they are not stopping. Like I said before, if I hit any other dog with a baseball bat in the head it's going to stop what ever it's doing. Not so with a pit and you know it.



you never answered my question, you think you're lady would've been any better off if she was attacked by a german shepherd, or husky/wolf dog or a 130lb great pyrinees?
what about a big bad rottweiler?

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#2431618 - 01/09/18 11:38 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones


And that is what they do. Krautrock you keep trying to compare these dogs to others and it just doesn't work because, (and this is the frigging truth you all will not admit to or acknowledge but you know it's true) is that once a pit decides to attack it's not stopping, it's going for the kill. I've seen them being beat with 2x4's and they are not stopping. Like I said before, if I hit any other dog with a baseball bat in the head it's going to stop what ever it's doing. Not so with a pit and you know it.



you never answered my question, you think you're lady would've been any better off if she was attacked by a german shepherd, or husky/wolf dog or a 130lb great pyrinees?
what about a big bad rottweiler?


There's been 4 German Shepherds across the street, two currently there and have never been attacked by them. Been over there many times. But as a matter of fact yes she would have fared much better.

Because you weren't there you have no clue about the intensity, viciousness and unwavering persistence to inflict great harm on her even after she was down.

But the real point is, it wasn't any of those other dogs it was a pit. The same ones mentioned in all the statistics that have been posted that show far and away a greater frequency of attacks, more viscous, disfiguring, and fatal attacks for the reasons that you and your ilk won't admit to even though you know it's true. So now go ahead and you man up cowboy.
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#2431646 - 01/09/18 12:26 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
DAYCLONA Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
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Originally Posted By srt
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
it's just meat...

that's been killed in a manner that provides that use



Depends on your interpretation, dogs in Korea are skinned live first, for their fur, then butchered for their meat, dogs in Vietnam/Thailand are usually boiled live like lobsters (right on the street by vendors, most vendors avg 20-25 dogs a day), the boiling turns their skin/meat yellow which is a desired color for dog meat, then the meat is either served boiled, or then roasted/flavored/seasoned

China has extremely few dogs left in the country, due to them being consumed, as well as a new stigma attached in the last decade or so to eating dog meat...

Be a great way to eradicate the pit breed in this country, plus feed thousands of homeless humans...have a "pit" roast...

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#2431698 - 01/09/18 02:24 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
justinp61 Offline
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Pit Bulldog..........the new beef.

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#2431702 - 01/09/18 02:32 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: justinp61]
RoadRunner Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
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Originally Posted By justinp61
Pit Bulldog..........the new beef.


Haven't followed this post in a while and open to this. eek I wasn't sure where it was going or coming from. lol
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#2431724 - 01/09/18 03:31 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: RoadRunner]
amxautox Online   content
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I don't think eating pits would be a good idea. They probably have a bad gene in their dna that would make humans bite kitty cats.
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2431803 - 01/09/18 05:40 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


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The fans of pit (type) dogs are charged with being alligators. Lie in wait and pounce on any unsuspecting participant that noses up to the forum watering trough. Much like their favored pets their motive is to inflict as much pain and grief so that the participant succumbs.
To have a meaningful discussion would admit to that fact that their favored pets are not pets at all. They are more like land mines.
To put this in perspective in a little sci-fi/horror twist: imagine a post apocalyptic world where packs of family pets haunt the streets looking for whatever they can consume. Not a pretty sight.

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#2431822 - 01/09/18 06:16 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
amxautox Online   content
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Land mines don't usually blow up until stepped on. Or if it gets real cold in Korea on M.A.S.H.
_________________________
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2431828 - 01/09/18 06:24 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: EV2Bird]
Supercuda Online   content
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Originally Posted By EV2Bird
Alot of the same things posted about here apply to certain races and demographics of people but we can beat them in the head with a bat.


Did you get a new sheet or is that the old one?

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#2431873 - 01/09/18 07:30 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: DAYCLONA]
mopargem Offline
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[quote=DAYCLONA

Be a great way to eradicate the pit breed in this country, plus feed thousands of homeless humans...have a "pit" roast... [/quote]

Pit Bulldog...........the new beef

laugh2 this funny

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#2431888 - 01/09/18 07:51 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: amxautox]
srt Offline


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Proximity mine?

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#2431890 - 01/09/18 07:56 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
amxautox Online   content
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Originally Posted By srt
Proximity mine?
I don't know if they mentioned what kind of mine on the show when the mines were blowing in the cold.
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2431971 - 01/09/18 09:25 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


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lol, I was jesting about the 4 legged ones., i.e. don't get too close or they might blow.

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#2431984 - 01/09/18 09:38 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
amxautox Online   content
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Ah yes.

The neighbor had a couple young pits. They'd come over and want to play with Cherokee. The male did something, I forget what. I disciplined him. He growled at me and I smacked his nose again. He didn't growl at me again.

A couple years or less later Geronimo and his sister Otahki were about 12 weeks old. The pits came over. The male went to Otahki, the female went to Geronimo. Geronimo growled as he was scared. I figure Cherokee would have to protect Otahki, and I went to Geronimo.


But the pits only wanted to say hi.

A few years later the male was suspect in a goat killing. He was always getting loose. One day he didn't come home.

Later the female was growling/snarling at Cherokee while I was talking to the neighbor. I said to her, "NO!!! Cherokee can be here and you have no say about it!". The neighbor said nothing.

A couple months later the neighbor said the female went to Calif. to live with HIS family, but on the news was a story about a female pit the same color as his female that was found tied to a concrete block at the bottom of the local river.
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2431985 - 01/09/18 09:39 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: amxautox]
amxautox Online   content
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And before the pits he had a NASTY Rot female. Cherokee beat the crap out of that dog. Now he has a couple lap dog Chawawa mix dogs that Geronimo loved to play with.
_________________________
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"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2432787 - 01/11/18 10:55 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


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Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Yet another. Were the owners derelict in their responsibility, was the boarding facility? 50# killer

http://www.thenewsstar.com/story/news/2018/01/10/wm-woman-killed-pit-bull-wm-kennel/1020452001/

Happy new year

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pit-bull-attack-falmouth-massachusetts-girl-life-threatening-injuries/

What a nice day for a stroll:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/sd-me-pitbull-attack-20180109-story.html

Unfortunately the news reports what is going on. These cases all reinforce the perception that people will be people, dogs will be dogs and the news will report what people and dogs (and other things) do.

Each case includes circumstances that can be debated, yet the common denominator is the dogs trigger mechanism and turn-off switch have been bred to be at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

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#2432793 - 01/11/18 11:17 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
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damn, heart breaking events there.

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#2432795 - 01/11/18 11:20 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By srt
Each case includes circumstances that can be debated, yet the common denominator is the dogs trigger mechanism and turn-off switch have been bred to be at the opposite ends of the spectrum.


Very well put but krautrock still won't acknowledge it.
_________________________
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#2432800 - 01/11/18 11:24 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
srt Offline


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I just figured I would put the cherry on the bottom of this thread


Attachments
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#2432820 - 01/11/18 11:59 AM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By srt
Each case includes circumstances that can be debated, yet the common denominator is the dogs trigger mechanism and turn-off switch have been bred to be at the opposite ends of the spectrum.


Very well put but krautrock still won't acknowledge it.


an untrained or neglected dog is a possible dangerous dog, especially if they are large.

i can speak from my personal experience and honestly say that our apbt's "trigger" and "turn-off" switches are/were completely fine.

the most vicious dog i've ever encountered was a german shepherd, it seemed like it absolutely wanted to kill me and my dog. it was 2 feet from me with an owner that couldn't control it and it was creeping closer with every lunge at me. luckily someone stepped in and helped control the dog. i don't blame the dog, it had owners that knew nothing about dog behavior, BUT...they were actually at the trainer working on it. the dog was so bad they had to do private training classes...

i've also run across some stray pitbulls, i was on my bicycle and stopped to see if i could figure out where one belonged. the owner happened to step out from a gate and the dog decided it need to get protective.
all i did was confront the dog, take a strong step towards it when it got close to me and it would back away. if i turned around it would try to sneak up on me. the owner warned me. i turned around and stepped toward it and it turned around and took off, rinse repeat a few times. finally the owner was able to grab it. i haven't ever seen it loose again.

as i've said before, focus on the problems, don't be that person that is calling for a ban on all guns after every shooting in the news.

examples.
educate dog owners, offer free spay/neuters, offer free dog training for people adopting dogs, heavily regulate breeding (there are so many dogs in shelters, there is no need for breeding and F.U. if you actually buy a dog in area with overcrowded shelters), require all dogs to be on leash in public, fund your animal control dept., ban dogs in backyards on chains/ropes...so on and so forth.
you ban a breed and another breed will just replace it. remember when it was Rottweilers that were hated? or Dobermann's?
were there any other dogs???

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#2432831 - 01/11/18 12:20 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
remember the Vick story? that P.O.S.
well his dogs ended up being pretty alright despite the breeding and abuse.

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/12/23/vick-dogs

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#2432840 - 01/11/18 12:40 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Supercuda Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 13241
Originally Posted By krautrock



i can speak from my personal experience and honestly say that our apbt's "trigger" and "turn-off" switches are/were completely fine.



The common thread in a lot of these pit bull attacks is the clueless owner talking about how sweet their dog is and how they had no idea it would ever do anything like that.

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#2432842 - 01/11/18 12:45 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Supercuda]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Θάνατος
Originally Posted By krautrock



i can speak from my personal experience and honestly say that our apbt's "trigger" and "turn-off" switches are/were completely fine.



The common thread in a lot of these pit bull attacks is the clueless owner talking about how sweet their dog is and how they had no idea it would ever do anything like that.



only difference is i'm not a clueless owner. it should've been obvious based on the rest of my post.

it's funny, i kinda feel like the responsible gun owner bitching about people wanting to ban all guns.

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#2432843 - 01/11/18 12:50 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
i guess i'll atleast give a little detail.

our apbt will do a down-stay off lead in a room filled with other dogs AND someone offering treats and toys to try to get him to break his down-stay.
that's with me out of sight just giving a down-stay command. that was a requirement to pass the intermediate training class we did.

the chihuahua-dachsund we have...no f'in way she would hold that command. our new puppy..idk, i have hope but we will see.

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#2432866 - 01/11/18 01:27 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By krautrock
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Originally Posted By srt
Each case includes circumstances that can be debated, yet the common denominator is the dogs trigger mechanism and turn-off switch have been bred to be at the opposite ends of the spectrum.


Very well put but krautrock still won't acknowledge it.


an untrained or neglected dog is a possible dangerous dog, especially if they are large.

i can speak from my personal experience and honestly say that our apbt's "trigger" and "turn-off" switches are/were completely fine.

the most vicious dog i've ever encountered was a german shepherd, it seemed like it absolutely wanted to kill me and my dog. it was 2 feet from me with an owner that couldn't control it and it was creeping closer with every lunge at me. luckily someone stepped in and helped control the dog. i don't blame the dog, it had owners that knew nothing about dog behavior, BUT...they were actually at the trainer working on it. the dog was so bad they had to do private training classes...

i've also run across some stray pitbulls, i was on my bicycle and stopped to see if i could figure out where one belonged. the owner happened to step out from a gate and the dog decided it need to get protective.
all i did was confront the dog, take a strong step towards it when it got close to me and it would back away. if i turned around it would try to sneak up on me. the owner warned me. i turned around and stepped toward it and it turned around and took off, rinse repeat a few times. finally the owner was able to grab it. i haven't ever seen it loose again.

as i've said before, focus on the problems, don't be that person that is calling for a ban on all guns after every shooting in the news.

examples.
educate dog owners, offer free spay/neuters, offer free dog training for people adopting dogs, heavily regulate breeding (there are so many dogs in shelters, there is no need for breeding and F.U. if you actually buy a dog in area with overcrowded shelters), require all dogs to be on leash in public, fund your animal control dept., ban dogs in backyards on chains/ropes...so on and so forth.
you ban a breed and another breed will just replace it. remember when it was Rottweilers that were hated? or Dobermann's?
were there any other dogs???


Blah, blah, blah, blah. That's all I read in your posts. Guns do not have a mind of their own, no gun has ever loaded itself, cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger.

Educate owners? laugh2 Like that is going to happen. Free spay and neuter? Free dog training? Who is going to pay for that? You might as well give them free veterinary care too while you're at it. Elect some more tax and spend types to your city or county council. That's the answer, more free stuff.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2432879 - 01/11/18 01:57 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones

Blah, blah, blah, blah. That's all I read in your posts. Guns do not have a mind of their own, no gun has ever loaded itself, cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger.

Educate owners? laugh2 Like that is going to happen. Free spay and neuter? Free dog training? Who is going to pay for that? You might as well give them free veterinary care too while you're at it. Elect some more tax and spend types to your city or county council. That's the answer, more free stuff.


actually i'm pretty sure my city already has all that stuff.
there isn't free vet care but there is very heavily discounted vet care for the routine stuff like vaccinations and even some surgeries.
people volunteer or donate funds/time/services or whatever coz...you know, the greater good of the city or something like that.

there is definitely free training for people that adopt animals. when we adopted (remember if you buy a dog from a breeder when there is a crowded shelter you're a complete a-hole) we were offered free training and other resources if we had problems with the dog. but we don't have any problems because we are responsible dog owners that already know about training.
but yeah, many of the trainers in the city offer free training or discounted prices for training to people that adopt from the shelters because...some people care.
so no, it doesn't have to be some new tax for you to whine about. lololol.


Edited by krautrock (01/11/18 01:58 PM)

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#2432888 - 01/11/18 02:11 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: krautrock]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
There are many responsible dog owners just like there are many that aren't. You can't make people be responsible, you can however punish those that aren't.

But the numbers don't lie, you will never convince me it's always the owners with pit type dogs. I think my case has already proven that.

Did you read in that article that srt linked where the father couldn't separate the dog from his 1 year old little girls face? That is how pits attack. Just admit it already.
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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#2432895 - 01/11/18 02:20 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8815
Loc: USSA
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
... Who is going to pay for that?...

I made this point way up in this thread. What it takes is for local upheaval to determine the cost to society is excessive, only then will legislation decide how society deals with the issue.
As it is pit (types) incur a tremendous cost to society, heck even Krautrock with his well mannered apbt, paying taxes and insurance premiums to support among other things shelter costs, medical treatment (animal and human), pursuit, investigations, litigation, settlements, and who knows how many other costs due to the breeds of pit (types). I single out pit (type) because, by far, the cost to society of these dogs far outweigh all other breeds. I don't have the stats but my gut says more than all other breed combined. Beside monetary cost there is the mental anguish owners, family and survivors of attacks bear.
Mixing guns with dogs is bizarre enough to investigate.
How about implementing training, permitting, tracking, proof of liability insurance, and recurrent (annual or biannual) review and recertification of owners. This is not different than any other certification society requires (driving, gun ownership/carry, doctors, paramedics, licensed professions, etc.). Fans of the breed should be backing legitimizing ownership rather than fighting the obvious. They are potentially dangerous dogs requiring cognizance and action to sustain the breed.

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#2432937 - 01/11/18 03:27 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: Guitar Jones]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
That is how dogs attack.


fixed that for you.

my whole point through all these different threads is that, BSL is an easy reaction that doesn't actually address the problem. same as calls for a ban on all guns after every shooting hits the news...

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#2432942 - 01/11/18 03:34 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: srt]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By srt
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
... Who is going to pay for that?...

I made this point way up in this thread. What it takes is for local upheaval to determine the cost to society is excessive, only then will legislation decide how society deals with the issue.
As it is pit (types) incur a tremendous cost to society, heck even Krautrock with his well mannered apbt, paying taxes and insurance premiums to support among other things shelter costs, medical treatment (animal and human), pursuit, investigations, litigation, settlements, and who knows how many other costs due to the breeds of pit (types). I single out pit (type) because, by far, the cost to society of these dogs far outweigh all other breeds. I don't have the stats but my gut says more than all other breed combined. Beside monetary cost there is the mental anguish owners, family and survivors of attacks bear.
Mixing guns with dogs is bizarre enough to investigate.
How about implementing training, permitting, tracking, proof of liability insurance, and recurrent (annual or biannual) review and recertification of owners. This is not different than any other certification society requires (driving, gun ownership/carry, doctors, paramedics, licensed professions, etc.). Fans of the breed should be backing legitimizing ownership rather than fighting the obvious. They are potentially dangerous dogs requiring cognizance and action to sustain the breed.


i'm all for certification for people with dogs. all dogs. or at the very least large dogs. i think all dog owners should be required to complete training.

but before that, maybe make it illegal to breed dogs without a certification or some type of permit. and require spay/neuter of dogs.

our city has some pretty high taxes, maybe it does help pay for a nice animal shelter and alot of workers in the animal control dept.

there are alot of pit type dogs around here. but the last dog related death we had was a few years ago and it was a large pack of herding type dogs that killed a young woman who went on a property to try to serve some papers. neighbors said the dogs were always escaping the yard and harassing kids and dogs.

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#2432974 - 01/11/18 04:36 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
cogen80 Offline
master

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5334
Loc: the house on the left.
Quote:
as i've said before, focus on the problems, don't be that person that is calling for a ban on all guns after every shooting in the news.

examples.
educate dog owners, offer free spay/neuters, offer free dog training for people adopting dogs, heavily regulate breeding (there are so many dogs in shelters, there is no need for breeding and F.U. if you actually buy a dog in area with overcrowded shelters), require all dogs to be on leash in public, fund your animal control dept., ban dogs in backyards on chains/ropes...so on and so forth.
you ban a breed and another breed will just replace it. remember when it was Rottweilers that were hated? or Dobermann's?
were there any other dogs???



holy cow. finally someone with a brain replied in this thread.

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#2432977 - 01/11/18 04:38 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: cogen80]
krautrock Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1708
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By cogen80
Quote:
as i've said before, focus on the problems, don't be that person that is calling for a ban on all guns after every shooting in the news.

examples.
educate dog owners, offer free spay/neuters, offer free dog training for people adopting dogs, heavily regulate breeding (there are so many dogs in shelters, there is no need for breeding and F.U. if you actually buy a dog in area with overcrowded shelters), require all dogs to be on leash in public, fund your animal control dept., ban dogs in backyards on chains/ropes...so on and so forth.
you ban a breed and another breed will just replace it. remember when it was Rottweilers that were hated? or Dobermann's?
were there any other dogs???



holy cow. finally someone with a brain replied in this thread.


up

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#2433056 - 01/11/18 06:50 PM Re: Another vicious dog attack [Re: mopargem]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
I am a dog person and I prefer large dogs, it seems most large breeds are more laid back and less hyper than small dogs. Over the years I've had a bunch of labs and the only aggressive one I've had was raised on a chain and was two years old when we got him. He never showed any aggression towards people but if there was a strange dog it was a different story.

My thoughts on Pit type dogs is that if they were no more aggressive than other large breeds we'd be hearing a lot more about people being attacked by other breeds. Take Labs for instance, I'd hazard to guess that they outnumber pit type dogs by a large margin here in the US. Yet, how many reports do we read about people being attacked or killed by them? Believe me, Labs are owned by all types of people too.

BTW, I'm not for eradicating any breed of dog, but something needs to be done. To stick ones head in his a$$ and say there isn't a problem with pit type dogs is like saying Pablo Escobar was a small time pot peddler.


Edited by justinp61 (01/11/18 06:54 PM)

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