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#2424088 - 12/26/17 05:51 PM 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions
Silver70 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 17684
Loc: Rust Belt, SW PA
Asked in another members thread, but no replies... so figured start a new one.

What is the part # for the cam? Also can you use the mds style in a motor without mds? I'm not sure I got the correct part #s, but looks like the mds style was a lot cheaper is reason I ask. I have a 2012 5.7, the block I'm using was a 6sp car, so no mds, but could I still use the cam and would I need to use the mds style lifters(which I have already).

Also what valve springs could I use that won't break the bank. I paid 500 for the whole engine, don't want to spend that on springs. I saw some option from a google search, but figured a lot could be second hand info.

Engine will be swapped into my cuda, will be running megasquirt system, so tune and so on isn't an issue.
_________________________
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
99 Trans Am, 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD

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#2424136 - 12/26/17 07:35 PM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: Silver70]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 830
Loc: Sellersville Pa
The automatic mds cam is part # 5038419AB
Stick Non-MDS Cam part # is 5037379BC
You can use the MDS cam in a non MDS Engine , but keep in mind that the lobes that have those (MDS)lifters are designed to take up the extra lash.
I would use the MDS lifters with the MDS cam.
But if it were me and putting this combo in a older application, I'd go with the 5037379BC cam should be worth 15-20hp over the MDS cam because of the more uniform lobes.
As for valve springs use the 6.4s 5037382BC $13 apiece, $210 for 16

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#2424182 - 12/26/17 09:00 PM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: Silver70]
Silver70 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 17684
Loc: Rust Belt, SW PA
That 5037379BC is 200 or so more than the mds cam, I'm cheap, so would go with the mds style, plus the cost of non mds lifters on top of that.

I thought the 6.4 springs wouldn't work on eagle heads. I thought I read that.

Also what pushrods?
_________________________
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
99 Trans Am, 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD

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#2424190 - 12/26/17 09:13 PM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: Silver70]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9520
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
6.4 springs will drop on perfectly, push rods are the same between both motors
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I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


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#2424195 - 12/26/17 09:28 PM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: ric3xrt]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3905
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
The automatic mds cam is part # 5038419AB
Stick Non-MDS Cam part # is 5037379BC
You can use the MDS cam in a non MDS Engine , but keep in mind that the lobes that have those (MDS)lifters are designed to take up the extra lash.
I would use the MDS lifters with the MDS cam.
But if it were me and putting this combo in a older application, I'd go with the 5037379BC cam should be worth 15-20hp over the MDS cam because of the more uniform lobes.
As for valve springs use the 6.4s 5037382BC $13 apiece, $210 for 16


I thought it was just a slight variation in the opening ramp and the rest of the specs were the same? (MDS VS NON-MDS)

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#2424277 - 12/27/17 04:42 AM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: Silver70]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 830
Loc: Sellersville Pa
The mds lobes have a faster opening rate, but the lift and duration are the same.
Don't get me wrong, I like using the MDS cam , for a no hassle cam swap it's the best bang for the buck,but for few more HP if you don't have to worry about mds vs non spend the extra 200. Look at it this way for max effort you want the valve train as uniform as possible, that is what the non-mds offers.

Silver70 I respect and understand where you're coming from. You'll be fine with non mds cam

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#2424431 - 12/27/17 12:50 PM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: Silver70]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9520
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
The difference is super tiny and I would be shocked if there was a 15-20 hp difference, maybe 5 hp I would be. If they were that different then chrysler would have had to have different HP ratings.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


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#2425301 - 12/29/17 09:33 AM Re: 6.4 cam into '12 5.7 hemi questions [Re: Silver70]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 830
Loc: Sellersville Pa
This what My experience with the two cams has been.
My niece Taylor and her twin brother Tiylar , both have 1500s her truck is a 2014 RCSB 4x2, 44k, his is a 2009 4x2 RCSB 75k. We did the MDS cam swap in June on her truck, after an average of 3 pulls HP/TQ = 315/340 stock, no tune, no aftermarket anything, after the 392MDS cam was installed HP340@5500 TQ 375 @4400, after tuning was 355/380. His truck same dyno in September made 306/336. His buddie’s dad told him that the Non-MDS was the way to go, after install, 345 @5600, 390@ 4400, after tuning was 365/410, but his truck made 5-20 Hp more from 2000-5000 and 10 more from 5000-5800.
I didn’t dyno my 2014 RCLB 4x2 truck before I did the cam swap, after the swap I had my truck on the dyno my non-tune number was less than hers #’s by 5ish, my after-tune numbers were better than hers by 5ish, same dyno but mine was in April

The 392-short block (with Eagle heads) that was in my truck made 400HP@4300 and 393 TQ @5300 with the MDS Cam, NON- MDS Wass 407HP, and 400TQ, but from 2500-4700 the Non-MDS made an average of 20 more Hp and 25 more TQ
So yes, you are correct 5 Hp, best case is max 10 more peak HP but thru the RPM band the Non-MDs cam is a better choice for max effort, broader, smoother curves thru out the RPM band, is it worth the $ 175-200 difference only the end user can decide, but considering after market VVT cams are in the $600-800 range…. bang for the buck is still awesome.
Now the 428 in my truck now with Eagle heads was making 452 with the Non-Mds cam, and made 440 with the MDS
With Comp Cams # 201-424-17 my 428 is pulling 485 hp on the dyno paid $635 for this cam, $400+ what I spent on the Non-MDS for 30 more HP.

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