Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2420229 - 12/18/17 06:37 AM G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking?
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 132
Loc: !TRUMP!MAGA!
Hello Folks,

We all know that an aftermarket timing set would be nice to have for the VVT based engines. For several months, I’ve been in contact with a representative from Arrow Racing, who mentioned that this subject matter is being investigated. As far as what kind or type, that wasn’t revealed…I also got the impression this is not a high priority or even a product that may reach the market.

With this said, I’m suggesting that we contact Arrow via emails and/or phone calls to demonstrate interest for this product, as well as any others that could be deemed investment reasonable and worth their effort to produce or supply for the G3 Hemi community. I believe they are interested and paying attention, even if it is casual at best...

I humbly suggest not referencing this post on Moparts to Arrow as it may be better to just communicate with them randomly, I really don’t know…just a thought.

My suggestions submitted to Arrow are nothing new or original and pretty straight forward:

--Aftermarket timing set or at least a fixed cam gear to replace the OEM phasing mechanism and negate the related limiter/lockout products that are currently being used.

--Camshafts to compliment a fixed/locked-out timing set.

--Tunnel ram based modular intake that has similar/modifiable bolt pattern to accommodate the multitude of Holley GM/LS manifold top pieces that are mass produced.

--Drag Pack style intake with 4500/Dominator flange. The similar Ritter 4500 flanged intake has proven to be an awesome performer, but the intake is expensive and shown to be of very poor casting/production quality. I’m thinking Arrow could easily modify their current 4150 intake design which seems to be a great product.

--Solid roller lifters

--Adjustable rocker arms

Top
#2420373 - 12/18/17 12:42 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9763
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Its so easy to lock the phaser there is no need to replace it and locking it don't even have to cost money, just pop off the back cover and put something in it to keep it from moving like a nut or steel ball or fill it with JB weld... you could even use different shims on either side of the vanes to set cam timing exactly where you want it. Anyhow, there are plenty of cams available for VVVT engines or you can just get one of the cam grinders to regrind your factory one. If you just have to get rid of it there is a kit on ebay to do exactly what you describe so you can use any non-vvt style cam you want.

I do agree with the intake questions, it should be a very simple casting core with no water passags or anything and very popular so why the heck do they have to cost so dang much? How hard could it be to run a dominator flange?

Adjustable rockers and solid lifters would seem to be very nice on the surface but the stock stuff works so well that it would be a waste on most builds, only high end stuff will see benifits from it.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


Top
#2420640 - 12/18/17 07:29 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
Is there any drawbacks to the cam phaser lockouts from TheHemiShop for $80? I'm still just getting my feet wet on Gen 3, but for an $80 lockout part bolt on, I can't see a huge benefit for a dedicated gear setup. Keep it simple.

For roller lifters...are there no other options than just the hellcat upgrades? I'm assume the hellcat lifters are also hydraulic, but still seem to be an easy upgrade.

Ditto on the intake...I've read on this site that other intake options will be available in 2018.

Top
#2420678 - 12/18/17 08:26 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
Not to double post...what I would be very interested in seeing would be a front timing chain cover. The 6.4 I recently purchased from a 5500HD has a front cover with a bunch of extra attachment points.

It would be nice to see someone develope a very basic front cover, with maybe just an alternator bracket attachment point. SRT 6.4 covers are close, but directly from Mopar = $$$

Top
#2420730 - 12/18/17 09:59 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 132
Loc: !TRUMP!MAGA!
Thanks for the comments!

I agree with the simple front cover idea and mentioned this to Arrow months ago, along with consideration for motor plate mounting too.

I believe the non-vvt cam kit was discussed at length recently and my take away was that it wasn't a good solution.

My 2 cents only, but I want a different cam gear and the ability to use a custom cam that is not a reground oem profiled type vvt cam.

Has anyone shimmed the oem phaser to set a specific cam timing? Long term results/durability?

Anyone else reach out to Arrow or know of similar G3 products from other producers?

Top
#2420752 - 12/18/17 10:31 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
gremlinsteve Offline
top fuel

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 1742
Loc: houston texas
I don't understand
I'm grinding cams for the vvt blocks a lot these days

What do you mean your only able to get reground stock cores?
_________________________
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.

Top
#2420849 - 12/19/17 07:01 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: gremlinsteve]
moparmitch Offline
member

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 132
Loc: !TRUMP!MAGA!
The cam comment was in response to comment above.

Are you having good results using the comp cams lockout products?

Top
#2420995 - 12/19/17 01:15 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9763
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Spending $80 on something a 5 cent nut can do just as easily is senseless to me but I am a tightwad and always trying to figure out how to do the same thing as the rich guys but for cheaper.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


Top
#2421021 - 12/19/17 01:58 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
STEFF Online   content
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3737
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
Adjustable Roller Rockers have existed for a few years now. T & D and Jesel. Expensive? Yes. They are expensive to make, just like Gen2 Hemis, so you can't expect them to be $1000.

Top
#2421041 - 12/19/17 02:30 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: HotRodDave]
A39Coronet Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/18/16
Posts: 312
Loc: Usa
Originally Posted By HotRodDave
Spending $80 on something a 5 cent nut can do just as easily is senseless to me but I am a tightwad and always trying to figure out how to do the same thing as the rich guys but for cheaper.


Oh I agree...just don't want to lose a 5 cent nut at 7k to save $79.95. hopefully since it's such an easy design someone else will come up with a competitive piece.

Top
#2421045 - 12/19/17 02:37 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9763
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Any idea why they have to be so expensive? Don't seem like they should be $4000 more than a BB rocker, its just 2 extra shafts and a few bolts.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


Top
#2421051 - 12/19/17 02:50 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
STEFF Online   content
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3737
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
The T & D rockers are in the $2850 ball park. The Jesels are in the $5k ball park. There is alot of machine work in the Rocker bodies. Multiple set-ups and fixtures. They are nothing like a BB rocker. I attempted to reinvent the wheel and come up with my own system and after two vendors and almost two years of issues, I pulled the plug. Plus, I also realized they would cost more than the T & D's.

Top
#2421084 - 12/19/17 04:46 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9763
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
I guess its a good thing the stock ones seem to work so well for most users.
_________________________
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!


Top
#2421341 - 12/20/17 05:37 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 1084
Loc: Trumbauersville PA
Arrington has Roller tip non-adjustable 1.7s that's about it in the below 1500 range. PRW has discontinued their roller tip rockers.

http://www.shophemi.com/p-1984-hemi-engine-roller-rockers-by-arrington-performance.aspx

Stock rockers are a great piece, I've been building LS chucks of crap for the last 10 years , and one of the areas that the G3 hemi has over the LS engines is the stock rockers, you can build more power out of a G3 with the stockers than you can the LS's.
I'd love a set of adjustable Rollers but the demand is just not there to make a return on investment reasonable for the big parts houses.



Steff did you try Stanke motorsports see if they might be interested , I know they have some G3 stuff and their G1 rockers are $1600 for set no shafts.


Attachments
Arrington Roller Rockers.jpg

Stanke Roller rockers G1.jpg




Edited by ric3xrt (12/20/17 06:06 AM)

Top
#2421353 - 12/20/17 06:59 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: ric3xrt]
fbs63 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: NW Indiana
Steff,
The T&D rockers you have,are they common shaft? They had a set of individual shaft rockers at PRI. Looked like you have to mill the stands flat to use them.

Top
#2421415 - 12/20/17 10:17 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: ric3xrt]
STEFF Online   content
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3737
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
Quote:

Steff did you try Stanke motorsports see if they might be interested , I know they have some G3 stuff and their G1 rockers are $1600 for set no shafts.


No, never talked to them.


Edited by STEFF (12/20/17 10:18 AM)

Top
#2421417 - 12/20/17 10:20 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: fbs63]
STEFF Online   content
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3737
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
Originally Posted By fbs63
Steff,
The T&D rockers you have,are they common shaft? They had a set of individual shaft rockers at PRI. Looked like you have to mill the stands flat to use them.


I saw those on FB. They must be new for this year. Mine are the common shaft offerings. Yes, shaft stands need to be removed for their cradle that holds the individual rockers.

Top
#2421440 - 12/20/17 11:23 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
Bad340fish Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5667
Loc: Tulsa OK
I am a lurker over here in the G3 form but is that not a G3 head on the right side of the picture with Harland Sharp rockers on it? They don't list any on the site but I think this pic was from PRI.


Attachments
Image-1.png


_________________________
68 Barracuda Formula S 340

Top
#2421446 - 12/20/17 11:35 AM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
STEFF Online   content
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3737
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
No on the Harland Sharps for the Gen 3. They're not good.

Top
#2421570 - 12/20/17 05:14 PM Re: G3 Aftermarket Timing Set and Such: Wishful thinking? [Re: moparmitch]
gremlinsteve Offline
top fuel

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 1742
Loc: houston texas
Can you tell us why there not good steff
_________________________
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Advertisement
Forum Stats
25,379 Registered Members
32 Forums
191,030 Topics
2,230,108 Posts

Most users ever online: 1,424 @ 06/20/18 07:18 PM
Moparts Newest Topics
1968 Plymouth Road Runner 2 door post
by tomsjack
Today at 04:25 AM
Carlisle Follow Up
by moparts
Yesterday at 10:21 PM
Can someone give me advice (read) on these plugs?
by plazomat
Yesterday at 09:57 PM
Pro Comp roller rockers
by biff426
Yesterday at 09:55 PM