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Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild #2415300
12/08/17 04:50 PM
12/08/17 04:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 416
Georgia
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KingTuna Offline OP
mopar
KingTuna  Offline OP
mopar
K

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 416
Georgia
I recently acquired a engine out of a 99 pickup(non Mopar) that I am going to teardown and inspect. I will openly admit that I am not very experienced in these matters, however, I am trying to learn. The engine has 240K miles, and was still running fairly well when it came out of the truck and got replaced with one with alot less miles. I am hoping that I can simply hone the cylinders, install new bearings and rings and be done. Possibly a cam swap as well.

I guess my question here is what's the proper way to see if I can do this or if I need to bore the block or turn the crank. I know about running my fingernail in the bores to see if there is a ridge, but what about checking the crank? Please excuse my ignorance.


2014 Ram 1500 Pentastar V6
1966 Fury II 4 door
Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2415350
12/08/17 06:40 PM
12/08/17 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,361
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
The Doctor is in.

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Eagle, Idaho
Best way is to measure the parts. Sometimes bores get egg shaped at the bottom of the cylinder and you can't see it.

You may get away with not boring the block or turning the crank, but you should check and replace the valve guides + install new seals, new oil pump, new timing chain, etc.

Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2415358
12/08/17 06:56 PM
12/08/17 06:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
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Rio Linda, CA

A lot depends on how many more miles you expect to get from the motor. If you don't need it go another 100K miles, just overhaul it.

At 240K I can guarantee you it will have a ridge, just ream the ridge, hone it an install new wear parts.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2415423
12/08/17 09:32 PM
12/08/17 09:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
The way the motor got those miles put on it will make a difference on the wear in the cylinders and other parts shruggy
If it was driven a lot of long distance trips versus around town the cylinders will have more wear if it was driven around town shruggy
If you don't know the history on this motor then measure every thing that can wear, valve stem to valve guide, piston to cylinder clearance, cylinder wall taper or out of round, piston rings to piston ring land clearances and taper, crankshaft journal wear, timing gear and chain stretch and several other parts that wear with use that I can't think of right now like the oil pump, cam shaft lobes and lifter bottoms on flat tappet cam and lifters and so on scope Have fun, let us know what you find and which brand and size motor it is wrench grin

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/08/17 09:33 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: John_Kunkel] #2415431
12/08/17 09:39 PM
12/08/17 09:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
On the cheap I would dingle berry hone it with the right grit for plasma single Moly rings & some new bearings. ridge ream out the ridge & pull it (the cutter blade) toward you as you go around with a 5/8 box end & take out MOST of it). I would have/pay someone experienced to help you with that part. check the block/head decks for adequate flatness & likely you would use composition head gaskets as opposed to steel shim ones.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2415451
12/08/17 10:10 PM
12/08/17 10:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
master
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gulfport, ms, west mi
What I have done in the passed before I bought the tools to measure bore and crank dimensions was to take the crank and block down to the machine shop and have the guy check them. He never charged me. By the way he didn't know me ether. This might be a option for you to try. Hopefully the machine shop will not try to screw you over telling you that the block needs boring and the crank needs turned. Be prepared , know what the stock dimensions and tolerances are, have them written down, take them with you. I had my block and crank in the back of my truck, the machine shop guy checked them out right on the tail gate. Also make sure the block and crank are clean. Hate to see ya spend good money on rings, bearings and gaskets just to have it turn out worse than it is now.


it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2415492
12/08/17 11:18 PM
12/08/17 11:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

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Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
On the cheap if it is an LS I'd go to the junkyard. There less than $200 locally here.
Doug

Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2415706
12/09/17 01:32 PM
12/09/17 01:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 416
Georgia
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KingTuna Offline OP
mopar
KingTuna  Offline OP
mopar
K

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 416
Georgia
The engine is a 99 5.7 Vortec. It came out of a Z71 that my brother in law stuck a new engine in. I do know the history, it was mostly highway miles and pulling a light trailer some. My plan is to check it out, do any repairs, put a new intake, carb, and distributor, and put it in my 85 s10. I have a v8 700r4 to replace the 700r4 behind my 2.8. Thank you for the advice, now to call a few machine shops and look at some new tools.


2014 Ram 1500 Pentastar V6
1966 Fury II 4 door
Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2417632
12/12/17 10:31 PM
12/12/17 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
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Overhaul...rebuild...reman...These terms mean nothing.

A 1999 L31 Vortec motor is a very nice starting point. Vortec heads, hydraulic roller cam, Chevy's good PM rods, high quality cast crank. Unless it came out of a 3/4 ton it'll be 2 bolt main block but who cares...The crankshaft rear main seal is one piece that slips over the hub at end of the crank.
The most important wear point is the cylinder bores. Cylinder pressure pushes the rings out against the cylinder walls. One would expect to see the bores be tapered, with the bore largest right at the top of ring travel or at least within the first inch. On an older engine the bore might be up to 0.008" larger at the top than at the bottom. There is a max allowable for cylinder wall taper for any engine, you just have to look in something like a Motors Manual. You're probably right on the maximum.

One thing to watch out for with the pistons is if you are just replacing the rings, measure the ring grooves before ordering the rings. There seem to be three separate sets of rings and they don't interchange. Be sure to use the right grit hone for the type of rings you buy. Moly, chrome, steel, cast iron, they all want a particular finish.

The heads have hardened areas for the valve seats and the valve guides should be 11/32 but will be worn. Chrysler factory service manuals used to give a procedure for checking side play and it'd be worth checking that out. If I decide to reuse the heads I like to check the valve seats by hand lapping the valves with a little lapping compound. All I'm looking for is a continuous ring all the way around the seat. I do not believe that hand lap[ping the valves does anything more than that. As the valves expand, they grow more than the valve seat area so the two possibly don't touch. But you can see if there is a burnt area where the seat line should be.

If the rocker arms don't look too worn you may want to replace only the rocker balls with grooved balls.

The camshaft is 191/195 on a 111 LSA and should be adequate. Try to keep the lifters in the same configuration as when they come out.

I use carb cleaner to get the varnish off the crankcase walls.

I bet the crank is OK but judging from past experiences I'd say stick a new oil pump into that engine. Unless there was detonation, which will show as wear on the upper bearing half, the lower rod bearing halves will show the wear and the crank throw should be measured top to bottom. That's the most important.
R.

Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2417731
12/13/17 01:23 AM
12/13/17 01:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 170
Wisconsin
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Medlock51 Offline
member
Medlock51  Offline
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Wisconsin
Doing an inframe on my wife's Jeep...new rod bearings (mains we're fine), new rings, lapped the valves, new seals...

Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2417915
12/13/17 01:45 PM
12/13/17 01:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
super stock
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Posts: 870
Missouri
Every part in the engine needs to be measured, measurements compared to specs, and then you decide what can stay as is, what needs to be reconditioned, or what needs to be replaced. If you have finger nails, any ridge at the top of the cylinders that you can catch a finger nail on is out of spec and it needs to be bored, any scratch on the crank that you can catch a fingernail on, the same thing it needs reconditioned or replaced.

Re: Engine Overhaul instead of rebuild [Re: KingTuna] #2418021
12/13/17 04:34 PM
12/13/17 04:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155
CT
GTX MATT Offline
master
GTX MATT  Offline
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Posts: 5,155
CT
Every late model engine I've taken apart with 200K still barely had any ridge. The bores on the new stuff are pretty hard.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street






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