Concerns are Hood Clearance and Header fit.
I have most associated parts- Rockers, Intakes, etc.

69 Charger RT Clone (383 SE)- Auto-Street Car
496 440 source Kit in #'s match 383 block.
Hydraulic Roller- 236/242 @ .050 , LSA 112 , 539/558 RPM 2600-6600
Car has Sanden AC compressor and I can run an annihilator Fuel Injection or I have a few bigger carbs.
I have Indy Headers for the 440-1 (2-2 1/8) I think they work with Eddy also. Also Hooker 1 7/8.


Heads available-

1. 10.3:1 78CC +- cc- ported Iron 516 2:14/181 Proven in the mid 11's in 70 Charger Solid Cam

2. 10.57:1 75cc +- Indy Aluminum 440-1 Former Race Head Rebuilt-

3. 10.87:1 72 cc +- New in Box Edelbrock Victor

Compression Ratios are as advertised 440 Source w .039 gasket.

Thanks in advance for input.

Of the 3 I'd go with the -1's and use a MW ported 440-2d Manifold. (correction, forgot you had a low deck!....I'd run a well ported Holley Street Dominator, you can get the ports near MW size) The only drawback to the -1 is you ony have a 4.25" + (.0?0") overbore so the big intake valves will be a little bit more shrouded than on a 400/440 block. It won't be a big deal with all those cubes though. The vics might take a bit of work(as stated in other threads) to be as good as expected, but IMO a max wedge with a mild cam and decent compression will work very well with that many cubes and will still RPM higher from better breathing with the smallish cam. The old TM-6 (383 Tarantula) is a good intake too but doesn't have as much meat to port and achieve any taper from the plenum like the SD does. You can use the M1 (I think AndyF has a ported one for sale) but to me if your starting to port from scratch the M1 is a lot tougher to port than a SD.

Headers would depend on the gear and stall, I like the 1 7/8" but with a 3 1/2" collector (Schoenfeld slip on) grafted on for a mild stall mid 3 gear heavy car with full exhaust combo.

Out of those 3, I'd use the Indy -1 heads. The -1 heads on a low deck block will fit headers like a stock headed RB block. So the Indy headers you have, I assume are the TTI step headers for the raised port heads? Those likely will not work b/c they're made for the RB block w/ raised port heads. You can use any header for a stock port 440...like your Hookers.

For a street car the smaller headers would be
much better.. plus if the TTI are the step one
they wont fit and you wouldnt need them.. most
people are way wrong when they go BIG headers..
your not gonna make the torque.. use the smaller
header and have about 18" collectors... bigger
is not always better(most times its not)

Chris...
1. Staying w/ the stock Charger hood (no scoop at all)? I suspect that any raised port head is going to be a tight squeeze, although the stroker 383 will be better than an RB.

2. Are those Victors the ones you bought from me years ago, or a different set? You say 72 cc chambers, but mine were 75 cc, which is why I ask.

I'd say use the Indys w/ that many cubes, but I don't think that cam's really big enough, unless you just want it to be a torque monster w/o much need to run up the RPM. Plus, if you know the headers will work w/ the 440-1s, that's one less headache you may have to deal with using other heads. - Brad

The car prob won’t be seeing high RPM.
354 gear. Sorry I didn’t mention.

Brad,
I looked at the Eddy site and they say 72cc ???
I bought Rockers from Mancini but am having trouble finding a Usage for these heads.
I have a 2295 piston 440 short block and a decent solid rolller I could use.


I was unaware of using a conventional header with the 440-1.
::::The Indy Headers were the Step Headers from a low deck 511 in my Demon.
They list the same # for different bodies. I see the torque issue

Measure the exhaust port width and height before selecting your headers to make sure they will fit the -1 heads you have

Roughly 6 (7?) years ago Edelbrock changed a few things w/ the Victors, including the chamber size. If it's the same set you bought from me, those are from before those changes and still have the (advertised) 75 cc chambers, not the later 72 cc.

Correct me if I am wrong but info your running a low deck big block and a MW intake port, the single plane Indy Manifold is your only option. That will be close on a stock hood. In my 71 before I got the cowl that Manifold barely cleared the bulge hood with a super low profile air cleaner.
Not sure that combo will clear a flat style hood like yours.

A low deck with a raised port head will be comparable to a RB for height with a normal type intake. I run a 511 with Indy SR heads and a six pack. The a12 aircleaner wouldn’t fit under the matching hood on a 440 with sr heads but works great on the 400.

None of the above.

Sell something you already have to help finance some TF240’s, RPM manifold, 1 7/8” headers.

I respect your opinion always Dwayne, but if it were mine there's no way I'd turn loose a worked set of big port big valve -1's for a 906 size head port, not on something with a 4.25" stroke arm PLUS a light bobweight short rod low deck. That smallish cam will still make massive torque and carry RPM better with that cam, the biggish 2.25" valve will offset some of the reduced lift and duration and still let it breathe up top.

I think Mopar Muscle many years ago built an SR 440 dual plane 4.5 x 4.5 572 wedge many years ago with a little "broomstick 235/245@.050 Lunati FLAT TAPPET Hydraulic and the thing still made 700 lb/ft below 4000 and 615hp at 5100, and it still revved to 5600+.

As good as the 240TF's must be, you'd want a bigger cam in it for this combo to take advantage of them. I kno those heads are a far sight better than my old 508 Stage V motor, but it liked a 252/258 @.050 ~.590 lift cam and a single plan to pull the revs up.

A good head with a small cam will still make power and broad torque, but a small port (again relative to displacement) head combined with a 238/246 smallish cam may IMO feel like an Oldsmobile 455, kind of a big grunt tractor motor with an artificially low RPM cieling pulling vaccuum up high just out of shear port velocity/lack of cross section going hypersonic. The long stroke eats a lot of duration at BDC and the piston speed builds a lot of port velocity. If it were a 470 with a bigger bore/shorter stroke I'd be with you on the TF's, but I'd still want a bit bigger cam, maybe like a 248 single pattern at least. To my thinking with a small cam the big valve/port and flow window
positively offests the "lack" of duration to give you great torque and velocity down low but better breathing up high. Broader torque win-win.

Whose the Moparts buddy with like 3 or 4 500" Motors in 70 B and E bodies, Old School? Aren't all his motors max wedges too? They're all torque monsters with big heads and mildish cams and mid 3 gearing.

He doesn’t have to sell the -1’s.......there’s two other sets of heads that can go.

You’d do it your way, I’d do it mine.

For what the OP is outlining, MW heads wouldn’t even be a consideration for me.



Actually, all run pretty good sized solid rollers, and there have been rocker wear issues more than once, and they are high compression(race gas) builds.

He gave one of the cars to his son, who had me sell him a milder cam for it since they were pulling the 14:1 pistons out of it and wanted something more user friendly that didn’t need 800lbs open spring pressure.

Thanks, sorry, bad example I guess.. I couldn't remember the specs except he had like 3 or 4 of them just alike with 337 manifolds.

I remember having -1's on a 10.5: 440 and of course it felt a little soft (compared to say a 440 magnum) until around 3200 and then LIGHT SWITCH big power....which was fine for the way I drove it. When I did the 517 with the Chapman Max Wedges I was very very surprised just how tractible and FAST the motor revs and pulls, more like a Hemi than a wedge which I really like...a hemi with 91 more cubic inches of trorque at any RPM though. As much torque as this thing has I can only imagine it with a 25 degree smaller cam in it, I'm at 11.5:1 though so I couldn't go that low on degrees. But nonetheless, it revs like a Comp eliminator motor and I run 3.54's as well. I run a 4000 stall 9.5 but I have no doubt this would pull great with a 2800 converter too, the torque is just so broad and there at any RPM. not a thing soggy or sluggish about the
throttle response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6gtdpu5MqA

Holiis and I built a buddy's 442" stroker 401 AMC with ported edelbrocks (flow maybe on par with a GOOD set of LA Edelbrocks) and a near identical cam to the one 440Persuit is using, except it's on a tigher 109 center and it also has the Holley EFI. It made 545/545 or right around there but it is ALL DONE at 5300, massive torque (runs 12 teens....and aero challenged no doubt in a 3800 pound jeep CJ-7) .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bNsxJLSie0

This was basically the same recipie I used for my 427" Stroker SBF Cobra replica and also the 440" W2 small block Hollis and me did a couple years back. Big difference though are the ford and mopar Heads are a bit better...so more RPM cieling.

In a jeep that's awesome but In a charger R/T clone, well, I'd just want a motor that revs to 5800-6000 at least, with a tractible, linear power curve that feels great behind the wheel. Whether I go up there or not.

What I was saying (kidding of course) about turning it into a 455 OLDs is a motor that a motor that is ALL TORQUE is almost always hair-triggered and a tire shredder which is great if it hooks....but still it's all done at ~5000RPM and then the power drops like a stone, I guess a Harley V twin is another good analogy. you get really chugging and then....you're looking for a place to drop another quarter in the slot to keep the ride going. Max Wedge ports are bigger (still smallish compared to most BBC and NASCAR FORD stuff) but at 500" they're just not too big, I generally like to run as large and free flowing an intake port as I can get (and afford, lol) ....up until it starts to kill torque at the lower range if whatever me target RPM may be. I can then "tune" the powerband with the cam and gearing. It's just a philosophy, not really applicable to drag racing but more like a road race type powerband, for a dual purpose car.

I thought (still do but opinions Vary) that -1's with that mild cam combined with a single plane (works better with fuel injection...hands down) would give him just about close to perfect at any RPM. 496 from a 440 = thats 56 cubes = another whole cylinder's worth of displacement at any RPM, and all stroke too.

I respectfully agree though, we each have our own idea of the ideal recipie,

I agree. Heavy street car, street gears, maybe stock torque converter? Sell all of that stuff including the big headers and buy the Trick Flow 240 heads and a Performer RPM intake. No shame in having a smooth running street car with lots of torque off idle.

I have a low deck 512 in my Coronet with a 240 hyd roller, Performer RPM and ported RPM type heads. Makes more power than I need for a street car. I'm going to ditch the carb and switch over to EFI which should smooth it out a little more.

If those are the early style ootb std port victors, and I "had to" pick from that list, those are what I'd use.

Have a little work done to them, run the RPM intake and 1-7/8" headers.

If there were a hood clearance issue, I'd find a nice used low deck Holley SD.

If the Indy's you have also include all the rockers and oil lines....still a slam dunk. Thinking about Ron's 383mans MW EZ-1 motor but in a low deck and with a milder cam....what's not to like?

Opinions vary tho....

The 40cc larger intake ports that likely don't flow any more up thru the lift of the cam being used, and the big lazy single plane intake manifold.

Yeah the low deck manifold choice for that combo with a MW would have to be better than the Indy single plane. It seems with all the low decks out there someone would come up with a solution other than a near MW ported TM-6 or RPM, dual planes are a Bee-otch to port all the way through.

I joke about the Olds motors, I've built a few nice ones over the years and spoke literally a dozen times to Joe Mondello (RIP) about stroker motors. I just don't care for a hair trigger (instant face shredding torque) torque curve that causes tire spin, and a small intake duration combined with a small port and a long stroke is the recipie for that, it's the tractibility of it. Long stroke motors tend to have a lot of crank degrees of dwell where the piston really aint moving much up or down and if you don't have a nice big intake tract to feed it it runs out of breath pretty fast. With an olds you could put a huge ported single plane on a 10:1 455 and still pull a 32' travel trailer, just so much torque. Just "Case in point" the olds W-30 spec cam used a huge (something like 308 degree seat to seat) duration cam just to try to get those motors to rev into the 5000+ range. and they still made GOBS of torque.

Fast you were the one that brought to my attention (and you are right) that at a certain point with a big motor the cylinder just wants AIR/fuel to charge it....and port volume becomes as critical in many ways as flow and velocity, after all we know the port cross section really determines the mean flow and the maximum torque RPM a motor can breath to before restriction becomes a choke. My "logic" was with a small flow window (lift and duration) a 2.25" intake valve has a lot more cubic flow area than a 2.14" at the same duration, you also stated and I 110% agree that in the old days we used to hang the valve open higher and longer (lift and duration) on the old 906/915/452 castings and sacrifice powerband broadness (torque band) to get a little better high RPM breathing. I've always thought a standard 906 port window was about right for a 383 but comparatively small for a 440, so it's comparatively tiny on a 500". Heck I mildly worked W2 port will outflow all but the best standard B motor ports and is about the same cross section and does it with a smaller valve. To me it's not only the size, it's the fact that at least the -1 has a raised runner with a better angle at the valve, thats where dry flowbenches don't tell the whole story. it's easier to get air or smoke to turn around a bend than it is FUEL in suspension.

so point being...I'm not doing this to argue "recipies" as much as I am trying to keep the discussion going...semi intellectually. Hope you know me well enough to by now (over what, 15 years now) to see that. I'm devil's advocating for readers that may have "learned" certain assumptions.

Will the TF's make an awesome 500" motor for that Charger? Without a doubt, I wish I had them for several of my old iron headed motors way back when....I just think the cam specified will definately come up a little short of breath...and the "best combination" had to be chosen from the parts in hand.

BTW I notice on the victors that the 'StageVI style" raised port intake spacers are effectively cast in to the heads, got me thinking...it owuld be very expensive but it may be feasible to come up with a combination of careful bridgeport milling to both the heads AND an RB manifold (like a 440-2D or a 337) to where an RB manifold could be made to fit. They are cast into the Indys as well but that would be a ton of chips to accomplish.

I try to write in a way that maybe somebody out there reading is wondering about a certain aspect about this or that, to me the fun in this is the sharing and bouncing back and forth of ideas and concepts, never anything personal...Like friendly debates at a bar over a beer and a cocktail napkin, lol!

I run a standard port window SR (they are MCH ported) on my 511. Car is 4g with me in it. 4.10 gear. Could it be faster with a MW port? Possibly. I don’t really want to go there though. It’s a heavy street Car that gets driven everywhere from work to the track. The standard port window allows me some intake choice. I sometimes run a TM6 with a 1050/4150 in place of the six pack. Both combos ran identical, best et to date is 10.92 running through mufflers, air cleaner, driving it to the track. I shift it around 6g and it’s happy as can be. It’s super torque’y and responsive. Drags that ole rr around like it’s a gutted A body. And I’m sure it has more ET left in it if I wanted to chase it. It’s a 13 sec chassis with 10 sec power.

A 4-speed with a 2.65 first and a 3.54 gear is gonna need instant torque and response in a 4g charger. I think the TF240 would be a proper fit also.