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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2415247
12/08/17 02:49 PM
12/08/17 02:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
As soon as they put a rev limiter on the hemi
they killed that engine.. its no wonder that
Chrysler pulled the plug.. if Chrysler was winning
they would have put money in it
wave

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2415249
12/08/17 02:55 PM
12/08/17 02:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
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Las Vegas
The RPM killed the Asymmetric head, teams chose not to pursue the symmetrical port head when it was released because the asymmetric head made more power. With the intro of EFI and the RPM limit the symmetrical port head is a better design. But since no one was developing that platform they fell behind. They were making strides with it and given a bit more time I am quite sure they would be right there again. Kramer stayed with the asymmetrical stuff as that's what they had their time and money tied up in. No different than how those changes affected the DRCE2 stuff. It was hurt by the ROM limit but the DRCE3 was superior. Team KB was on the development of the 3 head way before anyone else which is why they had such a quick start. To oversimplify it


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2415253
12/08/17 03:01 PM
12/08/17 03:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
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back in Georgia
WJ wanted EFI near 20 years ago. The fact that they did it so late doesn't make him wrong.

Pro stock is ever advancing, despite funding losses. I've been at WJ's on holidays, even on Sunday mornings,and sometimes late in the evenings, and he'll be filthy head to foot, with chips in his hair like stripper glitter. He never stops, and the stuff he works on spans all the tech involved. Right down to predictive software relative to head flow, that transfers straight to machine code. He, and Kurt not having sponsor money to spend in R+D is a huge waste of a dying resource.

Love the made my money racing, I won't spend it on it comment lol!

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: dthemi] #2415361
12/08/17 07:01 PM
12/08/17 07:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Weddington, N.C.
Are there any pics of the current state of the art DRCE Heads out there? Last ones I've seen up close were a few years ago (which I guess is a generation ago in pro stock)


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Al_Alguire] #2415691
12/09/17 12:57 PM
12/09/17 12:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Well here is some insight from someone who ran the class for a very very long time on the new rules package.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/pro-stock-legend-johnson-shares-his-thoughts-2018-pro-stock-rules

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: 340Cuda] #2415726
12/09/17 02:35 PM
12/09/17 02:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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SRT6776 Offline
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Originally Posted By 340Cuda
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Well here is some insight from someone who ran the class for a very very long time on the new rules package.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/pro-stock-legend-johnson-shares-his-thoughts-2018-pro-stock-rules

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill


Sounds like grass is greener syndrome after working on GM stuff for 50? years... OR silently whispering into Mopars ear that he's available to run their team.

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: 340Cuda] #2416880
12/11/17 06:19 PM
12/11/17 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR Offline
master
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Amarillo, Texas
Originally Posted By 340Cuda

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill


I too thought it was funny how hung up he was on the Hemi.


Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2417010
12/11/17 10:08 PM
12/11/17 10:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,310
Charlotte, NC
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LSP Offline
pro stock
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Charlotte, NC
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: LSP] #2417020
12/11/17 10:23 PM
12/11/17 10:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Washington
Originally Posted By LSP
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.



Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2417301
12/12/17 01:10 PM
12/12/17 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
Well, WJ certainly nailed what the Camaro looks like. laugh2


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Guitar Jones] #2417324
12/12/17 01:48 PM
12/12/17 01:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,678
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Well, WJ certainly nailed what the Camaro looks like. laugh2


This is one of the few times I can say i agree with what WJ has said. biggrin

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist] #2418717
12/14/17 10:22 PM
12/14/17 10:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,310
Charlotte, NC
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LSP Offline
pro stock
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Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By LSP
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.



Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.


Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC.

More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank.

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2418755
12/14/17 11:34 PM
12/14/17 11:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,556
New Smyrna Beach FL
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scottb Offline
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New Smyrna Beach FL
Toyota did not build there motor nascar told them here’s the block now copy it just like Mopar and GM when was the last time you looked at a small block Chevy and seen the dist in the front of the motor there all using a version of a ford block

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2418759
12/14/17 11:41 PM
12/14/17 11:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,310
Charlotte, NC
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LSP Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,310
Charlotte, NC
You're right, I'm clueless.

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer] #2418792
12/15/17 12:47 AM
12/15/17 12:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,556
New Smyrna Beach FL
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scottb Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,556
New Smyrna Beach FL
Never said you were clueless

Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: LSP] #2418895
12/15/17 09:43 AM
12/15/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By LSP
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By LSP
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.



Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.


Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC.

More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank.


Well since the width of the rod journal, width of the connecting rod's big end and the bore offset are all interrelated just how many thousandths of an inch are we talking about?


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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