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Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: cuda66318] #2418468
12/14/17 01:53 PM
12/14/17 01:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
Happy Birthday RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
Cuda I enjoyed your article.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/16/17 09:37 PM. Reason: its the right thing to do

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2418481
12/14/17 02:26 PM
12/14/17 02:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Pacific NW
cuda66318 Offline
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cuda66318  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Pacific NW
I have also edited my response, thank you for taking the time.

Email me direct from the Email on my web site and I'll send you a free email version of my book... Tuning to Win

Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2418486
12/14/17 02:34 PM
12/14/17 02:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Don't like flim flam


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: CYACOP] #2418655
12/14/17 08:39 PM
12/14/17 08:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
C
crackedback Offline
top fuel
crackedback  Offline
top fuel
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
The wrong way to tune an engine is find out where it pings, back down timing and let the initial timing fall wherever it may... classic MP manual nonsense.

At least get two pieces of the puzzle correct at a minimum, initial and total. Initial is MORE important than total to overall driving performance. Adding in vacuum is a bonus on street cars for sure.

As a side note, vacuum advance shouldn't do anything on a full throttle dyno run. If it does, something is wrong.

Stock 340 and 440 like in the 14-18 range for initial timing. Start adding in larger camshafts and that number increases.




Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: crackedback] #2418818
12/15/17 01:42 AM
12/15/17 01:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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Happy Birthday RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
set the initial with the "vacuum gauge method" then with that # in hand shorten the slots with the FBO $22 plate to get 36 (initial+mechanical) then toss the heavy spring with the elongated loop & sub in a mr gasket/MP/Transdapt light spring in its place for a start (keep the OE light spring) & mix/match from there staying just under the pinging point at WOT up thru the gears on your hottest/driest (most likely to ping) day then plug in the can to ported & adj it with a 3/32 allen wrench staying (same deal) just under the pinging point in everyday driving under varying RPM/load conditions. CCW slows its curve (amt at a given in hg) but not the total. Bottom line NO pining allowed & there is silent ping & peoples' hearing varies so give yourself a cushion. You want to get close to the line but never over it.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: CYACOP] #2418894
12/15/17 09:28 AM
12/15/17 09:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,957
SW Fla.
CYACOP Offline OP
master
CYACOP  Offline OP
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,957
SW Fla.
RR I guess this needs be my next attempt. I cant get it to run half decent any where near the 10 degree mark in the garage. The mark on the damper is at about 10 o'clock with the timing light, just to get the engine to smooth out to readjust the carb needles and idle. The motor does sound responsive just setting by ear.

So I will hook up the vacuum guage to manifold vacuum, plug ported carb vacuum source and unhook can on distributor (not sure about this but will try connecting can on distributor also, using a tee for my guage). Maximize vacuum on guage at idle by turning distributor and then back off about an inchof vacuum and see where that gets me as a starting point. Then I will street test it if it seems close and then work on the ping.

I appreciate all of the suggestions and time you all take to respond.

Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: CYACOP] #2418898
12/15/17 10:09 AM
12/15/17 10:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
Happy Birthday RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
on finalizing the ign with the "vac gauge method" do not T into the can, go strickly off manifold. As you twist the dist the idle speed will rise so keep reducing the idle speed back to your lowest/normal in gear RPM which is what it will be at stoplight to stoplight. then when the vac in hg is highest then go back till the in hg drops 1" of vacuum & reset the idle speed if needed then see if it will crank OK when hot & if it balks then drop the INITIAL not the vac (1) degree & repeat. You would only T into the can if you are going to tune on manifold as opposed to ported & I know that is what Don at FBO is into & some people swear by it. I have no exp with it so I cannot say if it is the way to go. I'm thinking there still might be another issue tho besides this.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Timing Issue [Re: CYACOP] #2419441
12/16/17 01:14 PM
12/16/17 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 360
Ohio
shorthorse Offline
enthusiast
shorthorse  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 360
Ohio
Just asking but when you are using your timing light, do the marks stay steady through all RPM ranges? I've seen old polymer bonded harmonic balancers cause issues like you are describing.

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