Shouldn't the door tag match the VIN tag on the dash, and also the vin on the last part of the fender tag?

If I could find another example around my VIN that would really help...

Thanks Barry! As with all things mopar, its about as clear as mud... lol

What would you do? My mylar tag is missing...

Have ESC make you a new sticker and use the SPD or if you really think it's a month off look at the date code on your K frame. Rumor is that it is the date closest to when your car was built.

not the perfect example, but .....
Superbird RM23V0A171644 w/B30-SPD ("restored" in the '90s w/~60K miles on it)

all believed to be original to the car:

power steering box casting date 9299 = Monday 9/29/69
LH lower control arm stamped 301/921 = 301st day, Tuesday 10/28/69 (shift 2 line 1)
K-frame stamped 3229 1 = 322nd day, Tuesday 11/18/69 (shift 1)

car arrived at Clairpointe from Lynch Rd. Friday 11/28/69
car left Clairpointe Monday 12/1/69

Brennan Cook - SUPERBIRD pages

door sticker 12/69

Throwing superbirds in to this topic might create a bit of confusion since they all had B30 as their SPD on the fendertag
even though they were built in October November and December .
Much like the 69 1/2 A12 cars all had only two SPDs on their fender tags

Greg

Holy Cow! Woke up to a wealth of information! Thanks Guys!!! I will get the wiper motor number, K-frame number, and steering box number.


Where is the EXACT location where the FMVSS label should be placed?

Jeff

Jeff

Since my car is very close to yours I can get you a photo if you don't mind waiting until tomorrow.

Morty

The steering box is super greasy I have to clean it up. The wiper motor is 2659-S, and the k-frame is 2729-1.

Thankfully I don't have to deal with this nonsense as my grandfathers car was built in 68 for the 69 model year. Since I had to call up ECS yesterday to order some more stuff, I had Charlie put me in contact with Dave there since he does the VIN stickers to see what he said being he does this for a living.

Here is what he had to say about it......He got a chuckle at the direction this talk was headed. He said the date listed on the tag had more to do with NHST 49 CFR 567 - certification and US Law. He said you guys try to define your entire research with Chrysler related parts and internal certification and it really has nothing to do with the standards set by the factory. Every manufacturer has to comply with the standards set by the SAE & NHTSA requirements. (hope I got that alphabet soup in the right order) You have to know use the DMV & SAE Laws in conjunction with factory protocol otherwise you're just guessing.

Like I said, either way it doesn't matter to me as it does not apply to my vehicle since my car was exempt from this standard so I have no dog in the fight but it was nice to get the inside scoop on how the stuff was done.

(2) Month and year of manufacture: This shall be the time during which work was completed at the place of main assembly of the vehicle. It may be spelled out, as “June 2000”, or expressed in numerals, as “6/00”.

it doesn't matter who you are. it reads the same no matter who you are. and you say hello if you wish. what I trying to relate to you is read what the decal says not what you want it to say. the FMVSS decal was about safety standards and a notification to the public as to what safety standards guide lines the vehicle was manufactured bye , not the date the vehicle was manufactured , but I believe that is the point the other gentlemen where trying to make when discussing the date codes on certain parts on the vehicle ,which along with other data might help you figure out an approximant date. maybe the fender tag date would be correct, at least it gives a definitive date.

Agreed with the common sense. Which is why I think Dave chose to take the point hit on the date code of the tires vs having original ones being worn and used. Going after OE certification means that the car has to look as it did new, not used. So, with that being said, what would you rather have done if you were in his shoes? Take the point hit for the incorrect date code but having something that is brand new appearing and perfect in every way (except for the date) or something that has a correct date but appears chewed up and used from road wear? I know if I ever go through OE with a car (not that I will cause I don't have that kind of money) I'd want it to represent something new and not used.

As for the exact date of manufacture, one thing solid can be said. If you have the original VIN sticker, then that is what the date of manufacture of the completed car was. Otherwise going off of date coded parts, fender tags, or whatever, you are only taking a guess which could be wrong. As for Dave.... I'm sure he had worked with thousands and thousands of certification labels in his 20 years or so of service to the industry. Not only does he manufacture Chrysler products but he mentioned that he does it for more than 40 different manufacturers, including motorcycles, semi-complete vehicles, union certification decals other Federal mandated labels. He has worked with every legal institution and has even been instrumental in helping to fabricate current Certification Standards under California DMV Standards. I can almost guarantee his research has gone far beyond dissecting cars from junk yards, deciphering information from grinding numbers on K- Frames, or researching wiper motors or whatever date coded part you'd prefer to chose.

The fact that his choice for choosing cosmetically better appearing tires on his Valiant had absolutely nothing to do with the original VIN label that was affixed to his Valiant. If memory serves me right, he had the correct tires that came with the car from the factory but decided to go with a better looking set of NOS versions for visual purposes only. Had he used the original tires, he would have probably been docked for them not being in pristine. new looking condition, like OE judges on. He chose to have the deduction for the wrong date codes because the "average" person like me, would have never deciphered the DOT coded numbers but they probably would have easily seen the "used" condition that they exhibited. He was going for an OE Car. Period. He probably didn't give a second thought to correct VIN certification from 1970 because he had an original to use. It's as simple as that. No guessing, no assuming what dated parts were placed on the car last, nothing. He had an original to use and therefore, did. Its just like trying to replicate a fender tag. Unless you have an original to go off of, you are only doing a "guess" as to what was on it originally. Again, like you said..... common sense approach.

It seems that the dated parts of a car have nothing to do when the decal was affixed to the door. I have heard of where cars have been held on the line because they had an electric top installed or door glass broke and the car didn't get the VIN placed on it until it was ready to leave the Factory. This thread seems like people were trying to use dated parts to determine when a VIN label would have a date printed and the has nothing to do with anything. My grandfathers car has parts that were dated 7 months before the car left the line which would have no impact on the time frame that the VIN label was affixed to his car, should his car been applicable to receiving the VIN sticker. From what I am gathering, the label was about the last thing to go on the car after it was complete and didn't go on until it was ready to leave the plant and be shipped.

A couple searches on the internet found this.......(no, I didn't write it all out.... just copied and pasted for everyones reading pleasure)

§ 567.4 Requirements for manufacturers of motor vehicles.
(a) Each manufacturer of motor vehicles (except vehicles manufactured in two or more stages) shall affix to each vehicle a label, of the type and in the manner described below, containing the statements specified in paragraph (g) of this section.
(b) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(c) Except for trailers and motorcycles, the label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. If none of the preceding locations is practicable, notification of that fact, together with drawings or photographs showing a suggested alternate location in the same general area, shall be submitted for approval to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Washington, D.C. 20590. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
(d) The label for trailers shall be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side, such that it is easily readable from outside the vehicle without moving any part of the vehicle.
(e) The label for motorcycles shall be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post with the handle bars, in a location such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except the steering system.
(f) The lettering on the label shall be of a color that contrasts with the background of the label.
(g) The label shall contain the following statements, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than three thirty-seconds of an inch high, in the order shown:
(1) Name of manufacturer: Except as provided in paragraphs (g)(1)(i), (ii) and (iii) of this section, the full corporate or individual name of the actual assembler of the vehicle shall be spelled out, except that such abbreviations as “Co.” or “Inc.” and their foreign equivalents, and the first and middle initials of individuals, may be used. The name of the manufacturer shall be preceded by the words “Manufactured By” or “Mfd By.” In the case of imported vehicles to which the label required by this section is affixed by the Registered Importer, the name of the Registered Importer shall also be placed on the label in the manner described in this paragraph, directly below the name of the actual assembler.
(i) If a vehicle is assembled by a corporation that is controlled by another corporation that assumes responsibility for conformity with the standards, the name of the controlling corporation may be used.
(ii) If a vehicle is fabricated and delivered in complete but unassembled form, such that it is designed to be assembled without special machinery or tools, the fabricator of the vehicle may affix the label and name itself as the manufacturer for the purposes of this section.
(iii) If a trailer is sold by a person who is not its manufacturer, but who is engaged in the manufacture of trailers and assumes legal responsibility for all duties and liabilities imposed by the Act with respect to that trailer, the name of that person may appear on the label as the manufacturer. In such a case the name shall be preceded by the words “Responsible Manufacturer” or “Resp Mfr.”
(2) Month and year of manufacture: This shall be the time during which work was completed at the place of main assembly of the vehicle. It may be spelled out, as “June 2000”, or expressed in numerals, as “6/00”.
(3) “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions. However, for school buses the minimum occupant weight allowance shall be 120 pounds per passenger and 150 pounds for the driver.
(4) “Gross Axle Weight Rating” or “GAWR,” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, for each axle, identified in order from front to rear (e.g., front, first intermediate, second intermediate, rear). The ratings for any consecutive axles having identical gross axle weight ratings when equipped with tires having the same tire size designation may, at the option of the manufacturer, be stated as a single value, with the label indicating to which axles the ratings apply.
Examples of combined ratings:
GAWR:
(a) All axles - 2,400 kg (5,290 lb) with LT245/75R16(E) tires.
(b) Front - 5,215 kg (11,500 lb) with 295/75R22.5(G) tires.
First intermediate to rear - 9,070 kg (20,000 lb) with 295/75R22.5(G) tires.
(5) One of the following statements, as appropriate:
(i) For passenger cars, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety, bumper, and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(ii) In the case of multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and trucks with a GVWR of 6,000 pounds or less, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the (word “Federal”).
(iii) In the case of multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and trucks with a GVWR of over 6,000 pounds, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(iv) For all other vehicles, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(6) Vehicle identification number.
(7) The type classification of the vehicle as defined in § 571.3 of this chapter (e.g., truck, MPV, bus, trailer).
(h)Multiple GVWR-GAWR ratings.
(1) (For passenger cars only) In cases in which different tire sizes are offered as a customer option, a manufacturer may at its option list more than one set of values for GVWR and GAWR, to meet the requirements of paragraphs (g) (3) and (4) of this section. If the label shows more than one set of weight rating values, each value shall be followed by the phrase “with _tires,” inserting the proper tire size designations. A manufacturer may, at its option, list one or more tire sizes where only one set of weight ratings is provided.
Example:
Passenger Car
GVWR: 4,400 lb with P195/65R15 tires; 4,800 lb with P205/75R15 tires.
GAWR: Front - 2,000 lb with P195/65R15 tires at 24 psi; 2,200 lb with P205/75R15 tires at 24 psi. Rear - 2,400 lb with P195/65R15 tires at 28 psi; 2,600 lb with P205/75R15 tires at 28 psi.
(2) (For multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers, and motorcycles) The manufacturer may, at its option, list more than one GVWR-GAWR-tire-rim combination on the label, as long as the listing contains the tire-rim combination installed as original equipment on the vehicle by the manufacturer and conforms in content and format to the requirements for tire-rim-inflation information set forth in Standard Nos. 110, 120, 129 and 139 (§§ 571.110, 571.120, 571.129 and 571.139 of this chapter).
(3) At the option of the manufacturer, additional GVWR-GAWR ratings for operation of the vehicle at reduced speeds may be listed at the bottom of the certification label following any information that is required to be listed.
(i) [Reserved]
(j) A manufacturer may, at its option, provide information concerning which tables in the document that accompanies the vehicle pursuant to § 575.6(a) of this chapter apply to the vehicle. This information may not precede or interrupt the information required by paragraph (g) of this section.
(k) In the case of passenger cars imported into the United States under 49 CFR 591.5(f) to which the label required by this section has not been affixed by the original assembler of the passenger car, a label meeting the requirements of this paragraph shall be affixed before the vehicle is imported into the United States, if the car is from a line listed in appendix A of 49 CFR part 541. This label shall be in addition to, and not in place of, the label required by paragraphs (a) through (j), inclusive, of this section.
(1) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(2) The label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or, if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
(3) The lettering on the label shall be of a color that contrasts with the background of the label.
(4) The label shall contain the following statements, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than three thirty-seconds of an inch high, in the order shown:
(i) Model year (if applicable) or year of manufacture and line of the vehicle, as reported by the manufacturer that produced or assembled the vehicle. “Model year” is used as defined in § 593.4 of this chapter. “Line” is used as defined in § 541.4 of this chapter.
(ii) Name of the importer. The full corporate or individual name of the importer of the vehicle shall be spelled out, except that such abbreviations as “Co.” or “Inc.” and their foreign equivalents and the middle initial of individuals, may be used. The name of the importer shall be preceded by the words “Imported By”.
(iii) The statement: “This vehicle conforms to the applicable Federal motor vehicle theft prevention standard in effect on the date of manufacture.”
(l)
(1) In the case of a passenger car imported into the United States under 49 CFR 591.5(f) which does not have a vehicle identification number that complies with 49 CFR 565.4 (b), (c), and (g) at the time of importation, the Registered Importer shall permanently affix a label to the vehicle in such a manner that, unless the label is riveted, it cannot be removed without being destroyed or defaced. The label shall be in addition to the label required by paragraph (a) of this section, and shall be affixed to the vehicle in a location specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) The label shall contain the following statement, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than 4 mm high, with the location on the vehicle of the original manufacturer's identification number provided in the blank: ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER'S IDENTIFICATION NUMBER SUBSTITUTING FOR U.S. VIN IS LOCATED ___.

Does the door printed VIN tag on a vehicle match the month that the fender tag says it is supposed to be built in, or the actual month of the day it was built. For example if the build date on the fender tag says 929, would the door tag say September or October when the car was actually built?

Thanks,

Jeff

Can someone please answer cuda340's question, or at the least what it shouldn't be or hand grenade, ballpark or atom bomb WAG of what to order the label date, this is not an O.E. Gold restoration.............or is it

Can someone please answer cuda340's question, or at the least what it shouldn't be or hand grenade, ballpark or atom bomb WAG of what to order the label date, this is not an O.E. Gold restoration.............or is it

The SPD for my '70 Dart is 802, but the door sticker says 9-1969. So no, the month of the door sticker does not necessarily match the month of the SPD.

In general I would say that the date on the door sticker would not be earlier than the latest date code found on the car.

The SPD for my '70 Dart is 802, but the door sticker says 9-1969. So no, the month of the door sticker does not necessarily match the month of the SPD.

In general I would say that the date on the door sticker would not be earlier than the latest date code found on the car.

can you share more info about your Dart, in this thread or start another

with an 802-SPD the car is probably a PROMO "dealer introductory show unit" * NO cars were assembled on SUNDAY August 2, 1969

I've always wondered what happened to the PROMO A-bodies, this would be the first one I've heard of - lots of known B & E-bodies

It would be good to see the sequential# and VON on that swinger .

Greg

My friend/Moparts member just picked this ‘70 Bee up. It also has an SPD of 9/29. The door sticker shows 10-1969. I hope this picture works

My friend/Moparts member just picked this ‘70 Bee up. It also has an SPD of 9/29. The door sticker shows 10-1969. I hope this picture works

Awesome Thanks! Would love to see the rest of the car! Also take a pic of the top of the steering box where the adjusting screw is if it a manual steer car. I would love to see that.

thanks,
Jeff

Jeff, it’s a power steering car. I’ll ask him to post more pictures.

It is a PS car. Sorry.

Remember to start a new topic on the carpet color

Good one, can't wait for that

im curious what information are you using to determine your results?

I guess you missed the point of my question? what information are you using that has weight as related to the time a car came off the assembly line or even exactly what day it came off the line. like I said im curious . would you please share the formula you have used to obtain your hypothesis ?

great Super Bee "EWJ", Dark Green metallic w/GREEN "C"-stripes & a broadcast sheet to prove it aren't Lynch Rd. fender tags wonderful?

Ed,

Can you get a couple of close-up pics of the reverse/lockout linkage?

Thanks

Jeff

they aren't quite results, a hypothesis - maybe, still need more info (see above) - I've figured out '70 St. Louis & most of Line #1 at Hamtramck, Lynch Rd. would need 100s of hours put into it to get "0A" better than the above "smaller than a ballpark-snapshot of 929" but it is getting close - then there's the other plants/other years ..... I'm using anything I can get my hands/eyes on

Dave, hello again. I understand all of the details you've brought up from your wealth of knowledge and experience with compliance labels, restoration, O.E. judging or should I say O.E. JUDGES.......

MikeR

Whats up with that broadcast sheet? The 2nd line is shifted, and the 3rd line is off too.

Did 383 SBs not have dual exhaust?

Ed,

Can you get a couple of close-up pics of the reverse/lockout linkage?

Thanks

Jeff

I would like to thank everyone for there responses and the discussion that has developed.

Jeff