#2413476 - 12/05/17 06:51 AM
VVT cam journal size .
|
member
Registered: 10/17/17
Posts: 31
Loc: Australia
|
I can see the front journal on a VVT cam is longer , but is it a different diameter . I have seen someone makes an adapter to put older cams in vvt blocks . Is there anything that would stop a good machinist from making something up to do this , or is there more to it .
_________________________
Stock 6.1 Hemi . 11.657 @ 113.54 , 3588 lbs. Sweet on the street , a bit dull on the track .
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2413484 - 12/05/17 07:45 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: aus370]
|
super stock
Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 983
Loc: Trumbauersville PA
|
I can see the front journal on a VVT cam is longer , but is it a different diameter . I have seen someone makes an adapter to put older cams in vvt blocks . Is there anything that would stop a good machinist from making something up to do this , or is there more to it . Yes the VVT front Bearing is a larger Diameter. there is more to it then just making an adaptor for the cam, you also need to plug the passage for the solenoid.
Attachments
_________________________
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda don't always acknowledge truth 74 D100 D-Code,3x75 D100 D-code, 3x77 D100 D-code,6x78 D150 D-D-code...lots of pre 81 trucks 75 4x2 Ramcharger....G3 coming soon 2003 Ram st 2004 Rumble Bee 2004 Ram GTX(Plum Crazy) 2005 Ram GTXtreme(s Plum Crazy,Banana Yellow) Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated 2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building) 2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414072 - 12/06/17 05:23 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: aus370]
|
member
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 144
Loc: Wisconsin
|
I would think you could machine a spacer to reduce the front journal diameter and run an early front cam bearing...
Isn't the front of the block .060 longer at the cam journal?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414083 - 12/06/17 07:17 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: Medlock51]
|
member
Registered: 10/17/17
Posts: 31
Loc: Australia
|
I like that Idea Medlock51 , not shure how much longer the block is at that point .
Looking at the pic above it seems the adaptor locates on the early cam via a recess and a dowl hole , then the outer diameter acts as the cam journal to fit in the larger cam bearing , and the length extends the sprocket forward the required amount .
_________________________
Stock 6.1 Hemi . 11.657 @ 113.54 , 3588 lbs. Sweet on the street , a bit dull on the track .
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414092 - 12/06/17 08:06 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: aus370]
|
super stock
Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 1198
Loc: NW Indiana
|
The person to talk to about this is Steff. He designed and built a belt drive for the vvt blocks with the non-vvt cam. It's more than just an adapter. IIRC he mentioned some oiling mods to the cam bearing also.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414151 - 12/06/17 10:09 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: ric3xrt]
|
master
Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3732
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
|
My 1st thought was to mill down the cam area in the VVT block and plug any oil passage that I encounter, problem with that theory is there are water passages in in the VVT block that would be in the path of the area that needs to be milled.
I think(just a theory here) that a VVT block could be machined for a cam roller bearing and that might be a work around for deleting the VVT system.....but would it be coast prohibitive ? I looked at this 5 years ago and went thru every scenario you mentioned to modifying the block and it's not worth it. The cooling passages get in the way. It would be a mess.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414175 - 12/06/17 10:51 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: ric3xrt]
|
master
Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3732
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
|
I did 2 VVT builds this year ,2 weeks(11/15/17) ago we tore down one of the VVT builds that used the delete kit, and the front cam bearing is grooved at the back edge where the adaptor rides on the bearing , car had 40 runs and roughly 3500 mile on the build. we pulled it just to check to see how the VVT delete was holding up.
now the engine owner is thinking of taking a Non VVT cam core , turning down the front journal, and making a "cap" (his words) to place over the front of the cam......My opinion is it's not worth the cost for one unit. I agree. Doing all the mods to a non-VVT cam and making an adapter is time wasted. The cost of a regular cam is $500-600. The cost of a custom core VVT is double that. Not a severe hit to the budget. Wasn't sure if the Nutter adapter kit came with a new cam bearing, but yes, front bearing mods are required to get the oil to the adapter, where it rides. I plugged all of the oiling at the front journal for the VVT and drilled a new oiling hole for the cam bearing from the main feed line, then added a small oil channel in the cam journal as a passage to a new oil hole I added to the cam bearing. The oil hole is under the front of the most forward VVT cam journal.
Edited by STEFF (12/06/17 10:57 AM)
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414198 - 12/06/17 11:30 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: ric3xrt]
|
master
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 4006
Loc: Canada
|
I did 2 VVT builds this year ,2 weeks(11/15/17) ago we tore down one of the VVT builds that used the delete kit, and the front cam bearing is grooved at the back edge where the adaptor rides on the bearing , car had 40 runs and roughly 3500 mile on the build. we pulled it just to check to see how the VVT delete was holding up.
now the engine owner is thinking of taking a Non VVT cam core , turning down the front journal, and making a "cap" (his words) to place over the front of the cam......My opinion is it's not worth the cost for one unit. What caused the groove? Was the adapter moving/squirming around on the front cam journal, making it cockeyed? When you guys pressed the adapter onto the non VVT cam did you through a dial indicator on the journals to see how true it ran? (not questioning your work, just wondering the process for installing the adapter) Like mentioned, would it not work if you sleeved the front VVT journal down to non VVT size, install a non VVT cam bearing and use a spacer on the front of the cam to make up the length difference? Maybe not economical for a customer but if someone had a basic lathe to do it for themselves it wouldn't be to hard, no?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414225 - 12/06/17 12:10 PM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: WO23Coronet]
|
master
Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3732
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
|
I did 2 VVT builds this year ,2 weeks(11/15/17) ago we tore down one of the VVT builds that used the delete kit, and the front cam bearing is grooved at the back edge where the adaptor rides on the bearing , car had 40 runs and roughly 3500 mile on the build. we pulled it just to check to see how the VVT delete was holding up.
now the engine owner is thinking of taking a Non VVT cam core , turning down the front journal, and making a "cap" (his words) to place over the front of the cam......My opinion is it's not worth the cost for one unit. What caused the groove? Was the adapter moving/squirming around on the front cam journal, making it cockeyed? When you guys pressed the adapter onto the non VVT cam did you through a dial indicator on the journals to see how true it ran? (not questioning your work, just wondering the process for installing the adapter) Like mentioned, would it not work if you sleeved the front VVT journal down to non VVT size, install a non VVT cam bearing and use a spacer on the front of the cam to make up the length difference? Maybe not economical for a customer but if someone had a basic lathe to do it for themselves it wouldn't be to hard, no? The Nutter design cam adapter does not press onto the cam. It gets sandwiched between the cam & cam gear, when bolted together. Turning something on a lather is only part of the job. It would need to be hardened and then ground on the OD to bring it to size and get a nice surface finish. The biggest thing I didn't like about it, is the fact that the oiling for the cam journal is not covered by the cam anymore which means there is a big oil leak now. The oil grooves in the VVT cam line up with two feed holes in the bearing, that provides the oil to the Cam Phaser. Once you put the smaller non VVT cam journal in there, they are wide open and the adapter is forward of the oiling holes. The adapter only gets residual oil, not a direct feed.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414270 - 12/06/17 01:40 PM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: WO23Coronet]
|
master
Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3732
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
|
What are the oil holes in the VVT cam journal grooves for? Is this the feed/return for the VVT? Yes.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414506 - 12/06/17 09:51 PM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: aus370]
|
member
Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 144
Loc: Wisconsin
|
Maybe I can dig up some info at PRI this weekend.. but might not since I'm only there Saturday.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#2414588 - 12/07/17 06:37 AM
Re: VVT cam journal size .
[Re: WO23Coronet]
|
super stock
Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 983
Loc: Trumbauersville PA
|
So if you want to lock out the VVT for installation into an older platform, do you just mechanically lock the VVT mechanism at what lever ICL you want and unplug the solenoid? Yes, keep in mind that the VVT system is full advance at start up, the oil pressure retards the cam when needed.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
25,246 Registered Members
32 Forums
188,828 Topics
2,201,822 Posts
Most users ever online: 882 @ 03/05/17 10:15 PM
|
|
|