871 Blower on a 440
#2413359
12/05/17 12:57 AM
12/05/17 12:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 581 Boise Idaho
65coronet500
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OP
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Boise Idaho
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Been a really long time since ive posted anything on here or anywhere for that matter and im finally finding interest in my 65 Coronet again but now i have acquired a beautiful 871 Mooneyham blower complete setup for a 440 I am new to the blower world and havent ever ran one but find myself very intrigued by this arrangement of Mayhem Im going to start from the shortblock and work my way up . Ok that being said for a street/strip car and im talking more street than strip how long will a nicely prepped stock block live keeping the boost at 10 psi MAX theoretically Am i just wasting time and money ?? Plan on a forged 440 crank and Manley H beams and Arias Dished pistons Indy SR Heads Cam is going to be decided by Dwayne Porter Any Input or ideas will be appreciated Thanks Matt
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads . ..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: Dragula]
#2413376
12/05/17 01:29 AM
12/05/17 01:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 581 Boise Idaho
65coronet500
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Who Makes a decent girdle For these things now days ?
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads . ..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: 65coronet500]
#2413388
12/05/17 01:53 AM
12/05/17 01:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,116 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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You would be a lot better off starting with a 400 block, that blower at 10 lbs. of boost at WOT will probably break the main webbing in any of the stock 440 blocks, girdle or no girdle, in very little time I've seen stock type 440 blocks that are not supercharged break the main webbing above 700 HP Or better yet spring for a after market aluminum or cast grey iron block, if you can find and swing a deal for either one IHTHs
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/05/17 01:53 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2413390
12/05/17 01:54 AM
12/05/17 01:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 581 Boise Idaho
65coronet500
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Believe me i have thought about that with alot of consideration LOL Ive done about everything ive ever wanted to do to cars but the blower has been on the bucket list for many years and i own the silly thing now so i will try it and waste countless dollars and then change it out for something more friendly im sure, just like i Tried A Jerico 4 Speed and i would give it a 10 on the fun scale but also a 10 on the miserable side of reality LOL
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads . ..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2413392
12/05/17 01:58 AM
12/05/17 01:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 581 Boise Idaho
65coronet500
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You would be a lot better off starting with a 400 block, that blower at 10 lbs. of boost at WOT will probably break the main webbing in any of the stock 440 blocks, girdle or no girdle, in very little time I've seen stock type 440 blocks that are not supercharged break the main webbing above 700 HP Or better yet spring for a after market aluminum or cast grey iron block, if you can find and swing a deal for either one IHTHs Cab ....Who has an iron block that is decent now days I heard Mike and the gang at Muscle motors has something going on but dont know if its takin off yet ??
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads . ..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: 65coronet500]
#2413398
12/05/17 02:09 AM
12/05/17 02:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,116 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,116
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/05/17 02:09 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: 65coronet500]
#2413399
12/05/17 02:09 AM
12/05/17 02:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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I Live Here
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Stock block,,,,,,,671,,,,me thinks 5 or 6 lbs of boost and 7.5:1 and run on pump gas!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: 65coronet500]
#2413417
12/05/17 02:31 AM
12/05/17 02:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
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master
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Charlotte, North Carolina
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I would go a slightly different direction. Stock stroke, 7.1 rod, aluminum main caps and girdle. Bigger cubes won't matter. You will have more than enough torque and power at 10 psi boost. Longer rod ratio will be easier on the stresses thrown at the block.
[image][/image]
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: Dragula]
#2413522
12/05/17 12:31 PM
12/05/17 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
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I love Roots blowers, the main advantage is the Instant torque at any RPM, no need to have any sort of high stall converter. The key is you are very seldom going to need to go to WOT and maximum RPM but if you do you want some sort of boost retard which is really your safest bottom end protection.
Very good cooling is also essential, you may be surprised how much heat even an underdriven GMC style blower builds, those ribs are there for a reason. I would probably limit the boost to maybe 7 or 8 pounds which basically increases your effective displacement another 50% in terms of torque production.
I would like to do a 470 low deck with a 2.200 journal 3.90 stroke and a 6.800 BBC rod but to use an RB manifold you would need to run some sort of Stage VI head....so to run an RB I would still do a 3.90 stroke but with a 7.100 BBC rod. A girdle would be addeded insurance but for me strong but lightweight internals are essential because the RATE of ACCELERATION of the crank under load goes way up in a boosted motor.
For a blower set-up I like to run another 1/2 a thou of P/W clearance with the finish hone over the piston MFG spec with a fairly long skirt, piston rattle at TDC and excessive rock at BDC under load is what you want to try to minimize at all costs. Run a BIG radiator and aluminum heads and to save the bottom end, keep the max RPM down under 6000. The problem with boosted motors is they make so much power it's easy to overrun the safe zone of the block because the power doesn't percievably drop off in terms of the Seat of the pants, however, even though you don't feel it you are still transmitting all those high torque + High RPM stresses into your block. Methanol/water injection is also a great investment, keeps the blower cooler and the tune safer.
An 8-71 would probably run at least 10-15% under-driven. key is to incorporate some boost limiting is not as easy to accomplish with a wet (fuel through the blower case) system, if all the fuel was injected below the case (as in a modern OEM like the hellcat) it would be easier to dump excess pressure. The thing to remember is you only boost when you give it enough air to make boost so in a way, limiting the carb max CFM can also keep your bottom end safe. But I would do this with a large carb with a throttle stop rather than too small a carb for the street. But in safe race tune with race gas you can always back the stop off.
Have fun! I'd love to do another Blower motor someday, I always had a blast.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/05/17 12:32 PM.
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#2413568
12/05/17 02:28 PM
12/05/17 02:28 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
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master
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northern,Ohio,USA
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BCR girdle and maincaps, that 8-71 significantly underdriven on E85 at 9:1 compression. S/F....Ken M 1 to 1 drive is only about 4# on a 440
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: Clanton]
#2413624
12/05/17 03:55 PM
12/05/17 03:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Clanton,
only 4 psi? Is that right?
I think it's more than that (but correct me if I'm wrong) because if you remember the 71 series Rootes was designed for a Detroit Diesel....which are 2 strokes. And the supercharger was required just to get enough air into them, I only know this because I worked on and learned a ton from working with big Deisel mechanics as a 'young-un'.
So when you put the blower on a 4 stroke of the same discplacement, each revolution of the blower is packing only 1/2 the cylinders/displacement PER REVOLUTION... so the boost is actually proportionally higher. I think that's how the early Hot-rodders figured out how they could make them work
They used 6-71's on 426 Hemis for decades at close to +/- 1:1 ratios and we know it will definately make more than 4 psi of boost. There are pretty generous efficiency losses between the seals and the case, not to mention air density losses from heat but still the displacement calucation was based on the GMC/ALLISON/Detroit Diesel standard 71 cube cylinders. I thing there was a 53 inch Cylinder as well, a lot of early smallblosks ran 4-53 blowers
i would think an 8-71 on a 440 could be significantly under-driven on the street and easily make big boost.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/05/17 04:04 PM.
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Re: 871 Blower on a 440
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2413952
12/06/17 12:20 AM
12/06/17 12:20 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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I Live Here
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Rolled around the idea of doing this in my Duster for Nostalgia class I run. If I were to do it, I was going to build a low deck 383 stroker with 440Source parts & girdle at 493 cubes and an 871. I can tell you, it would be a blast, but I worry about the heat between rounds. As we run, the rounds get quicker. On pump gas NA, its not an issue, but on Roots, I am thinking it would add a bunch...Been kinda thinking an F1R procharger on water injection would be better for heat.
Last edited by Dragula; 12/06/17 12:21 AM.
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