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#2413359 - 12/04/17 09:57 PM 871 Blower on a 440
65coronet500 Offline
mopar

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 566
Loc: Boise Idaho
Been a really long time since ive posted anything on here or anywhere for that matter and im finally finding interest in my 65 Coronet again but now i have acquired a beautiful 871 Mooneyham blower complete setup for a 440
I am new to the blower world and havent ever ran one but find myself very intrigued by this arrangement of Mayhem
Im going to start from the shortblock and work my way up .
Ok that being said for a street/strip car and im talking more street than strip how long will a nicely prepped stock block live keeping the boost at 10 psi MAX theoretically
Am i just wasting time and money ??
Plan on a forged 440 crank and Manley H beams and Arias Dished pistons
Indy SR Heads Cam is going to be decided by Dwayne Porter
Any Input or ideas will be appreciated Thanks Matt
_________________________
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads .
..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!

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#2413362 - 12/04/17 10:01 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 10077
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
A girdle is a must. I suggest the whole rotating assembly from 440Source if you don't have it yet. Opt for the best bolts throughout.

Buddy of mine had a stroked 440/493 in his street car with an 871 on pump gas...Car was wicked! Easy horse power, tire frying mayham.
_________________________
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_XTmRBuvWs (6.19)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZGfDBPROM (9.70 at 138.5mph)

'70 Cuda Hemi, 605 almost ready again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.31)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

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#2413376 - 12/04/17 10:29 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dragula]
65coronet500 Offline
mopar

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 566
Loc: Boise Idaho
Who Makes a decent girdle For these things now days ?
_________________________
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads .
..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!

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#2413382 - 12/04/17 10:37 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
lockjaw-express Offline


Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 398
Loc: Ohio
Sell it and go with Holley EFI!

you will be much happier...

my 2 cents

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#2413388 - 12/04/17 10:53 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
Cab_Burge Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 29964
Loc: Bend,OR USA
You would be a lot better off starting with a 400 block, that blower at 10 lbs. of boost at WOT will probably break the main webbing in any of the stock 440 blocks, girdle or no girdle, in very little time shruggy
I've seen stock type 440 blocks that are not supercharged break the main webbing above 700 HP work
Or better yet spring for a after market aluminum or cast grey iron block, if you can find and swing a deal for either one up twocents
IHTHs thumbs


Edited by Cab_Burge (12/04/17 10:53 PM)
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2413390 - 12/04/17 10:54 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: lockjaw-express]
65coronet500 Offline
mopar

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 566
Loc: Boise Idaho
Believe me i have thought about that with alot of consideration LOL
Ive done about everything ive ever wanted to do to cars but the blower has been on the bucket list for many years and i own the silly thing now so i will try it and waste countless dollars and then change it out for something more friendly im sure, just like i Tried A Jerico 4 Speed and i would give it a 10 on the fun scale but also a 10 on the miserable side of reality LOL
_________________________
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads .
..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!

Top
#2413392 - 12/04/17 10:58 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Cab_Burge]
65coronet500 Offline
mopar

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 566
Loc: Boise Idaho
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
You would be a lot better off starting with a 400 block, that blower at 10 lbs. of boost at WOT will probably break the main webbing in any of the stock 440 blocks, girdle or no girdle, in very little time shruggy
I've seen stock type 440 blocks that are not supercharged break the main webbing above 700 HP work
Or better yet spring for a after market aluminum or cast grey iron block, if you can find and swing a deal for either one up twocents
IHTHs thumbs

Cab ....Who has an iron block that is decent now days
I heard Mike and the gang at Muscle motors has something going on but dont know if its takin off yet ??
_________________________
All steel 3800 lbs with me in it 65 Coronet 451 CID Indy 440-1 heads by Dwayne Porter racing heads .
..... 10.31 @ 129.4 mph 1.40 60 ft ALL MOTOR!!!!

Top
#2413398 - 12/04/17 11:09 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
Cab_Burge Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 29964
Loc: Bend,OR USA
MM is closing up according to them earlier this year, several other vendors, Ray Barton, Chicago Connection and several others are suppose to be getting those blocks as they come out of the foundry and machine shops confused
I'm going to wait until all the bugs are worked out of those blocks before buying one twocents up
Bob George racing and other Indy dealers are able to get you a good Indy wedge, both high deck and low deck, aluminum block work scope


Edited by Cab_Burge (12/04/17 11:09 PM)
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2413399 - 12/04/17 11:09 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 10240
Loc: Great Neck,LI,new york
Stock block,,,,,,,671,,,,me thinks 5 or 6 lbs of boost and 7.5:1 and run on pump gas!
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HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!!

PaRAicE is melting

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#2413417 - 12/04/17 11:31 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
sgcuda Offline
master

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 3616
Loc: Charlotte, North Carolina
I would go a slightly different direction. Stock stroke, 7.1 rod, aluminum main caps and girdle. Bigger cubes won't matter. You will have more than enough torque and power at 10 psi boost. Longer rod ratio will be easier on the stresses thrown at the block.
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#2413426 - 12/04/17 11:42 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
EchoSixMike Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 392
Loc: IL
BCR girdle and maincaps, that 8-71 significantly underdriven on E85 at 9:1 compression. S/F....Ken M

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#2413429 - 12/04/17 11:50 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: EchoSixMike]
Dave Hall Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1499
Loc: Cotati, CA
iagree with Mike here. Alcohol is super friendly here. That much boost is going to require some expensive gas and the tune up must be perfect. With gas, the lean or fat conditions are a LOT harder on a girdled stock block. With alcohol you can add more compression for efficiency as well.

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#2413462 - 12/05/17 03:32 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
62SAVOY Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 171
Loc: CA
I guess I will see what happens on my 440 with 30 over pistons. 8-71 running 11 pounds currently under driven. I do have two fuel cells in the back though. One for pump gas and one for AV gas. Also running a MSD boost retard box too so I can dial timing out. See what happens. runaway

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#2413469 - 12/05/17 05:21 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
dvw Offline
master

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 6663
Loc: MI, usa
I ran a 6V=71 on a stock 340 block for over 20 years at 13lbs. Even detonated 2 sets of pistons learning to tune. Never hurt the block. We also run a stock 360 block/cast crank at 21lbs. A buddy has run a stock 440 block, iron heads, 8-71 on alcohol to 5.60's in the 1/8. A sensible tune , thick crown pistons it'll be fine for mostly street.
Doug

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#2413472 - 12/05/17 05:40 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 10077
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Originally Posted By 65coronet500
Who Makes a decent girdle For these things now days ?


440Source...
_________________________
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_XTmRBuvWs (6.19)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZGfDBPROM (9.70 at 138.5mph)

'70 Cuda Hemi, 605 almost ready again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.31)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

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#2413522 - 12/05/17 09:31 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dragula]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9590
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
I love Roots blowers, the main advantage is the Instant torque at any RPM, no need to have any sort of high stall converter. The key is you are very seldom going to need to go to WOT and maximum RPM but if you do you want some sort of boost retard which is really your safest bottom end protection.

Very good cooling is also essential, you may be surprised how much heat even an underdriven GMC style blower builds, those ribs are there for a reason. I would probably limit the boost to maybe 7 or 8 pounds which basically increases your effective displacement another 50% in terms of torque production.


I would like to do a 470 low deck with a 2.200 journal 3.90 stroke and a 6.800 BBC rod but to use an RB manifold you would need to run some sort of Stage VI head....so to run an RB I would still do a 3.90 stroke but with a 7.100 BBC rod. A girdle would be addeded insurance but for me strong but lightweight internals are essential because the RATE of ACCELERATION of the crank under load goes way up in a boosted motor.

For a blower set-up I like to run another 1/2 a thou of P/W clearance with the finish hone over the piston MFG spec with a fairly long skirt, piston rattle at TDC and excessive rock at BDC under load is what you want to try to minimize at all costs. Run a BIG radiator and aluminum heads and to save the bottom end, keep the max RPM down under 6000. The problem with boosted motors is they make so much power it's easy to overrun the safe zone of the block because the power doesn't percievably drop off in terms of the Seat of the pants, however, even though you don't feel it you are still transmitting all those high torque + High RPM stresses into your block. Methanol/water injection is also a great investment, keeps the blower cooler and the tune safer.

An 8-71 would probably run at least 10-15% under-driven. key is to incorporate some boost limiting is not as easy to accomplish with a wet (fuel through the blower case) system, if all the fuel was injected below the case (as in a modern OEM like the hellcat) it would be easier to dump excess pressure. The thing to remember is you only boost when you give it enough air to make boost so in a way, limiting the carb max CFM can also keep your bottom end safe. But I would do this with a large carb with a throttle stop rather than too small a carb for the street. But in safe race tune with race gas you can always back the stop off.

Have fun! I'd love to do another Blower motor someday, I always had a blast.







Edited by Streetwize (12/05/17 09:32 AM)
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WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2413568 - 12/05/17 11:28 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: EchoSixMike]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3256
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By EchoSixMike
BCR girdle and maincaps, that 8-71 significantly underdriven on E85 at 9:1 compression. S/F....Ken M
1 to 1 drive is only about 4# on a 440
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GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
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#2413624 - 12/05/17 12:55 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Clanton]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9590
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
Clanton,

only 4 psi? Is that right?

I think it's more than that (but correct me if I'm wrong) because if you remember the 71 series Rootes was designed for a Detroit Diesel....which are 2 strokes. And the supercharger was required just to get enough air into them, I only know this because I worked on and learned a ton from working with big Deisel mechanics as a 'young-un'.

So when you put the blower on a 4 stroke of the same discplacement, each revolution of the blower is packing only 1/2 the cylinders/displacement PER REVOLUTION... so the boost is actually proportionally higher. I think that's how the early Hot-rodders figured out how they could make them work

They used 6-71's on 426 Hemis for decades at close to +/- 1:1 ratios and we know it will definately make more than 4 psi of boost. There are pretty generous efficiency losses between the seals and the case, not to mention air density losses from heat but still the displacement calucation was based on the GMC/ALLISON/Detroit Diesel standard 71 cube cylinders. I thing there was a 53 inch Cylinder as well, a lot of early smallblosks ran 4-53 blowers

i would think an 8-71 on a 440 could be significantly under-driven on the street and easily make big boost.


Edited by Streetwize (12/05/17 01:04 PM)
_________________________
WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2413918 - 12/05/17 08:35 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Streetwize]
Cab_Burge Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 29964
Loc: Bend,OR USA
One of the west coast fastest 10.5 outlaw racer has said more then once that high boost pressures are a failure of head flow or some other related failure on the motor, in other words make sure the motor can handle the airflow in and out work
The better the motor, the better the results thumbs
_________________________
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2413952 - 12/05/17 09:20 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Cab_Burge]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 10077
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Rolled around the idea of doing this in my Duster for Nostalgia class I run. If I were to do it, I was going to build a low deck 383 stroker with 440Source parts & girdle at 493 cubes and an 871. I can tell you, it would be a blast, but I worry about the heat between rounds. As we run, the rounds get quicker. On pump gas NA, its not an issue, but on Roots, I am thinking it would add a bunch...Been kinda thinking an F1R procharger on water injection would be better for heat.


Edited by Dragula (12/05/17 09:21 PM)
_________________________
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_XTmRBuvWs (6.19)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZGfDBPROM (9.70 at 138.5mph)

'70 Cuda Hemi, 605 almost ready again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.31)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

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