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#2414024 - 12/05/17 11:00 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dragula]
Dave Hall Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1505
Loc: Cotati, CA
Dragula brings up a good point! Anyone run one of those "Superchillers"? Like they have on bada$$ boats? Wouldn't coolant temp. even be enough to make more power or stay in the game longer? Add extra capacity to the cooling system too!

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#2414054 - 12/06/17 01:08 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Clanton]
62SAVOY Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 171
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By Clanton
Originally Posted By EchoSixMike
BCR girdle and maincaps, that 8-71 significantly underdriven on E85 at 9:1 compression. S/F....Ken M
1 to 1 drive is only about 4# on a 440


This is wrong. My 8-71 currently is under driven by 5%. I can go from 20 inches of vacuum to instant 11 pounds of boost by flooring it. Feels good too pulling hard. Do not see me needing to over drive it by swapping the pulleys. A race car driven on the street but power and giggles when I want it.

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#2414071 - 12/06/17 05:18 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
Medlock51 Offline
member

Registered: 06/15/16
Posts: 142
Loc: Wisconsin
I built a vintage 354 blown Hemi's 10 years ago.

Stock block and heads... Venolia pistons...8-1, 8 lbs. boost, stock rods bushed with good bolts... Si stainless valves... stock rockers rebuilt... Clay Smith cam...very mild with a 113 lsa...525 lift... 240-ish duration (the blower mellows out the cam a bit). I ran an old Carter 750 single. Nicely built engine with good parts and machining.

You don't need a girdle, aluminum heads, dual 850's, fancy rods or a mega crank IF you keep the boost down to 8lbs. and keep your hoof out of it. You can have a very nice DD with good fuel economy and loads of driveability.

Now if you want 4 mpg, an uncontrollable idle, gas dripping from the exhaust, overheating in traffic, etc. then go all out. I didn't want that...

There are thousands of blown factory built cars running hyper pistons, stock rods, etc. getting 100,000 miles or more without issues.

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#2414075 - 12/06/17 05:52 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Medlock51]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 10079
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Originally Posted By Medlock51
I built a vintage 354 blown Hemi's 10 years ago.

Stock block and heads... Venolia pistons...8-1, 8 lbs. boost, stock rods bushed with good bolts... Si stainless valves... stock rockers rebuilt... Clay Smith cam...very mild with a 113 lsa...525 lift... 240-ish duration (the blower mellows out the cam a bit). I ran an old Carter 750 single. Nicely built engine with good parts and machining.

You don't need a girdle, aluminum heads, dual 850's, fancy rods or a mega crank IF you keep the boost down to 8lbs. and keep your hoof out of it. You can have a very nice DD with good fuel economy and loads of driveability.

Now if you want 4 mpg, an uncontrollable idle, gas dripping from the exhaust, overheating in traffic, etc. then go all out. I didn't want that...

There are thousands of blown factory built cars running hyper pistons, stock rods, etc. getting 100,000 miles or more without issues.


I also helped a friend build one of these. It was a 354 with a tunnel ram and a blower on top of that. Cost a lot more than doing a blown wedge, and at the end of the day, only made a shade over 500hp...Lots of torque and reliability, but was a big disappointment. Especially with today's wedge heads where 700hp pump gas NA is no problem.
_________________________
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_XTmRBuvWs (6.19)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZGfDBPROM (9.70 at 138.5mph)

'70 Cuda Hemi, 605 almost ready again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.31)
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#2414109 - 12/06/17 08:42 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dave Hall]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3257
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
Dragula brings up a good point! Anyone run one of those "Superchillers"? Like they have on bada$$ boats? Wouldn't coolant temp. even be enough to make more power or stay in the game longer? Add extra capacity to the cooling system too!
Yes I run a Blower shop intercooler.[15yrs]
_________________________
GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/

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#2414111 - 12/06/17 08:45 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 62SAVOY]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3257
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By 62SAVOY
Originally Posted By Clanton
Originally Posted By EchoSixMike
BCR girdle and maincaps, that 8-71 significantly underdriven on E85 at 9:1 compression. S/F....Ken M
1 to 1 drive is only about 4# on a 440


This is wrong. My 8-71 currently is under driven by 5%. I can go from 20 inches of vacuum to instant 11 pounds of boost by flooring it. Feels good too pulling hard. Do not see me needing to over drive it by swapping the pulleys. A race car driven on the street but power and giggles when I want it.
The boost recorded is dependent on many things,You got 11# I got 4#.
_________________________
GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/

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#2414537 - 12/06/17 10:41 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
EchoSixMike Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 392
Loc: IL
Boost is a function of back pressure(and heat expansion). A set of worn out 906's is going to make more boost but less power than a set of B1's at the same drive %. S/F....Ken M

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#2414645 - 12/07/17 09:41 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dragula]
DusterDave Offline
top fuel

Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 1820
Loc: Tampa
Originally Posted By Dragula
Rolled around the idea of doing this in my Duster for Nostalgia class I run. If I were to do it, I was going to build a low deck 383 stroker with 440Source parts & girdle at 493 cubes and an 871. I can tell you, it would be a blast, but I worry about the heat between rounds. As we run, the rounds get quicker. On pump gas NA, its not an issue, but on Roots, I am thinking it would add a bunch...Been kinda thinking an F1R procharger on water injection would be better for heat.

If its a race only deal, run mechanical injection on alcohol, and there won't be a heat issue. That's assuming alky is allowed in your Nostalgia class.
_________________________
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210

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#2414649 - 12/07/17 09:46 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dave Hall]
DusterDave Offline
top fuel

Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 1820
Loc: Tampa
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
Dragula brings up a good point! Anyone run one of those "Superchillers"? Like they have on bada$$ boats? Wouldn't coolant temp. even be enough to make more power or stay in the game longer? Add extra capacity to the cooling system too!

It won't cool down the blower itself. They get hot.
_________________________
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210

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#2415073 - 12/07/17 11:32 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: DusterDave]
Dave Hall Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1505
Loc: Cotati, CA
Yeah, I see that. Good point. Boats run cool lake water through them so I see where that would really help cool things. It makes better sense to cool the air before the blower. Heat rises right? The cooler beneath the blower is really helping the engine more than the blower.

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#2415074 - 12/07/17 11:43 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
62SAVOY Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 171
Loc: CA
Dave

With cooling the air before the blower the problem is now the air will get hot from the friction of the vanes. Detroit 8v92 is a good example also. Inter cooler is below before air enters engine after turbo. Another example would be a GMC Typhoon or Syclone as how they are inter cooled. No room under hood to clear so they had a good idea how to fit it in. You need to cool air after the turbo or the supercharger.


Edited by 62SAVOY (12/07/17 11:45 PM)

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#2415100 - 12/08/17 01:36 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Dave Hall]
Cab_Burge Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 29970
Loc: Bend,OR USA
When you compress air it heats up and expands, roots type coolers mounted under the blowers can block the air flow into the motor so you see limited gains on the dyno or track with them shruggy
I think alcohol injection into the top of the blower would help cool down the intake air temps under the blower and make the motor make more power work


Edited by Cab_Burge (12/08/17 01:37 AM)
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Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

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#2415141 - 12/08/17 08:31 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
dthemi Offline
master

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 2607
Loc: back in Georgia
Being on the street helps since things don't generally break until it hooks.

The track will be the challenge on breaking things. Run a small narrow slick with a ton of wheel speed of the line (almost spinning) and it might live a little longer, maybe.

Throw a good pair of E85 Dominators on it, and that'll help keep down the temp.

I like the tuning of EFI for sure. The trade off though is a complicated mess of one thing fails, you're dead in the water, or it taking charge of things from faulty information from a fouled sensor ect.

Carbs are what they are, but if I had to put a blower motor in a plane, and ride in it myself, I'd never use EFI lol.

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#2415176 - 12/08/17 09:42 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 62SAVOY]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3257
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By 62SAVOY
Dave

With cooling the air before the blower the problem is now the air will get hot from the friction of the vanes. Detroit 8v92 is a good example also. Inter cooler is below before air enters engine after turbo. Another example would be a GMC Typhoon or Syclone as how they are inter cooled. No room under hood to clear so they had a good idea how to fit it in. You need to cool air after the turbo or the supercharger.
Here is mine with the intercooler.


Attachments
ngine2015 (1).jpg


_________________________
GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/

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#2415333 - 12/08/17 03:00 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: Clanton]
Dave Hall Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1505
Loc: Cotati, CA
Too cool Clanton! Love it!

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#2415449 - 12/08/17 07:03 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
62SAVOY Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 171
Loc: CA
Clanton

Looks good. I will put one up of mine but just noticed I never took pics of once it was done but only during assembly. Take a pic tonight. On the upper radiator hose too I found one that fit without having to use a flex tube. Was off a Ford if I remember right? Will see what it was off of and the Napa part number.

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#2415541 - 12/08/17 09:50 PM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 10248
Loc: Great Neck,LI,new york
Clanton,do you think the intercooler you use works better than W/M?
_________________________
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!!

PaRAicE is melting

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#2415618 - 12/09/17 01:42 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 65coronet500]
62SAVOY Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 171
Loc: CA
DSCN3008 copy by todd, on Flickr

Water outlet on the block I used a short straight outlet

Hose I used I can't find number. I have one written down but not the correct one. Might be one I was seeing if it fit and wrote it down. Will see if I can find it out when I take car out tomorrow stop by Napa and look for same one.


Edited by 62SAVOY (12/09/17 01:43 AM)

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#2415669 - 12/09/17 09:12 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: hemi-itis]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3257
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By hemi-itis
Clanton,do you think the intercooler you use works better than W/M?
For me I think it works better but I only used a base kit from snow.[2x 625 ml,min]
_________________________
GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/

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#2415670 - 12/09/17 09:14 AM Re: 871 Blower on a 440 [Re: 62SAVOY]
Clanton Offline
master

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 3257
Loc: northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted By 62SAVOY
Clanton

Looks good. I will put one up of mine but just noticed I never took pics of once it was done but only during assembly. Take a pic tonight. On the upper radiator hose too I found one that fit without having to use a flex tube. Was off a Ford if I remember right? Will see what it was off of and the Napa part number.
Thank you for looking for the part# and the pics,Very nice!
_________________________
GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/

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