Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413286
12/04/17 10:18 PM
12/04/17 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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Walton's Mountain, Pa
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A high dollar Comp eliminator. The same guys will still dominate, there will be no difference. The cars/engines are close now......AJ''s Dodges are within a half a tenth of the leaders. The problem is the cars are too refined, they don't make a bad run. So, it might as well light years. The days of someone coming out of the middle of the pack, even though it's within a few hundredths, and winning on a hole shot, or because someone misses a shift or even a shift point, are over. The cars are like watching robots. Not even fun to watch.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413304
12/04/17 10:58 PM
12/04/17 10:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
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I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster......
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2413321
12/04/17 11:36 PM
12/04/17 11:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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fredericksburg,va
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I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster...... Well golly, I thought the Hemi was a Plymouth engine! And Vegas came with small blocks, who would of thought
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2413323
12/04/17 11:38 PM
12/04/17 11:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,627 anywhere@ anytime
actionange
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,627
anywhere@ anytime
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I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster...... Or a Boss 429 in a Maverick... Really???
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413331
12/04/17 11:54 PM
12/04/17 11:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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It's all a ruse to get Toyota into the class.
What a joke.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413437
12/05/17 03:02 AM
12/05/17 03:02 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
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gulfport, ms, west mi
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I was watching Jay Leno's garage awhile back. He went for a drive in a I believe a Score [ Toyota ] off road race truck. The owner said it was powered by a Toyota engine that could run 10,000 RPM's all day . Maybe the Chevy's will be taking a break from the winners circle or there will be a lot of toyota engines in Chevys.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: rowin4]
#2413444
12/05/17 03:17 AM
12/05/17 03:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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Washington
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I was watching Jay Leno's garage awhile back. He went for a drive in a I believe a Score [ Toyota ] off road race truck. The owner said it was powered by a Toyota engine that could run 10,000 RPM's all day . Maybe the Chevy's will be taking a break from the winners circle or there will be a lot of toyota engines in Chevys. Those Toyotas are not Toyotas. They are an amalgamation of the Chevy and dodge engines.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413448
12/05/17 03:25 AM
12/05/17 03:25 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
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Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Why doesn't NHRA do a spinoff of pro stock and call it PS/C similar to our SS class SS /H for the old HEMI cars. It's all Chevy anyway.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413528
12/05/17 12:54 PM
12/05/17 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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Las Vegas
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Here comes Toyota..This is not new news per se'. The word of this coming has been floating around most of last year.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413572
12/05/17 02:32 PM
12/05/17 02:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
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The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2413574
12/05/17 02:33 PM
12/05/17 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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Great more uninformed people on the planet (or the same amount with with more ammo).......I can hear them now boy those Toyota's really run. Just another reduction to the intelligence for the almighty dollar. I have good friend that swears that Top fuel engines are Chevy because of the advertising on the body. Even after showing him the pics of that teams engine. Ever listen to stock car racing fans talk about their favorite Ford, Chevy, or Toyota. Exactly why I haven't watched any professional racing on TV for almost 2 decades. Heck I usually don't even read these post about them. I would love to watch some bracket, sportsman, or swamp-buggy racing any day. But for some reason they won't show that. Man I miss Sundays with Diamond P sports on TNN . I know times have changed..... I agree, the same as everything else today, repeating what they hear, with no understanding what so ever of the topic. Back in the day you found out what was right before you spouted off like an idiot. We where car junkies, not game boys. As far as Toyota, the other three can get off their butts and spend the jack to compete, they're still living on last years fame, plus the "owner" we have at FCA is out to lunch and going back to V6s and 4 cyl, full circle back to the wonderful years.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Rhinodart]
#2413592
12/05/17 03:07 PM
12/05/17 03:07 PM
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Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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Really?!? The future is in 4 cylinder turbo cars and electric, the days of V8 muscle will end when this current crop of muscle cars are done in the next couple of years. Glad I won't be around to see that future. Truly we are devolving.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413642
12/05/17 04:31 PM
12/05/17 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I know when I think of the epitome of the pure iconic American muscle car....... Camry is right there at the top of the list.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2413690
12/05/17 05:48 PM
12/05/17 05:48 PM
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Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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W. Kentucky
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I know when I think of the epitome of the pure iconic American muscle car....... Camry is right there at the top of the list. Years ago when the Camry was first introduced the local toyota dealer was on the radio advertising them as "the toyota cam ray". What a dufus.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413722
12/05/17 06:41 PM
12/05/17 06:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Personally, I think Pro-Stock died years ago when the body's became carbon fiber blobs with decals loosely resembling something offered by Chevrolet or Dodge. I'm not sure it can be saved by anything at this point.
I'd like to see Factory Stock take the spotlight. If they had to even the field, a weight minimum dictated solely by aero drag coefficient, keeping the cars in bone-stock Sheetmetal, with a factory built chassis and engine combination is something I'd like to see.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2413728
12/05/17 06:46 PM
12/05/17 06:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
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Basically funny cars with doors and gasoline now. Will not change the landscape much in the near future. The last Dodge after Allen was switching anyhow. Maybe Wescott will get back into it. Still has the car I think.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2413738
12/05/17 07:08 PM
12/05/17 07:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best. This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413800
12/05/17 08:26 PM
12/05/17 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131 Amarillo, Texas
BBR
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I like it. This will allow Ford and Mopar to participate as sponsors without having to deal with the exorbitant costs of PS engine development. PS engines are freaks that bear no resemblance or commonality (other than name) to anything I will ever own, so my brand loyalty in that respect is weak at best.
Heck, I would venture a guess that if you took all 3 PS engines apart and set all the parts out, most guys couldn't tell what was "GM", "Ford" or "Mopar" anyway.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya RMRW 2018 RMRW 2020
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413815
12/05/17 08:45 PM
12/05/17 08:45 PM
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Posts: 8,233 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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"Heck, I would venture a guess that if you took all 3 PS engines apart and set all the parts out, most guys couldn't tell what was "GM", "Ford" or "Mopar" anyway."
That depends on how old you are, over 50, you can tell. THAT is the problem today with all forms of racing. As memory's fade, so does the why of what it once was all about.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 12/05/17 08:46 PM.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: BradH]
#2413866
12/05/17 10:25 PM
12/05/17 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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Melbourne , Australia
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The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best. This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018. The big teams that are running are a millionaires club, that want to keep playing in their sandpit. All that aside, these teams employ many staff to run their operation, if they stop racing Pro Stock, you'll have plenty of folks looking for a job. Some of the engine guys may stay on, but I can understand why the teams are trying to stay racing. On various Facebook posts regarding this news, a lot of people are wanting Pro Mod to take it's place, some getting behind the factory based stuff. If Pro Stock goes, I'm not sure either will get up
Alan Jones
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: SportF]
#2413898
12/05/17 11:16 PM
12/05/17 11:16 PM
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Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
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They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car. you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: LA360]
#2413939
12/06/17 12:00 AM
12/06/17 12:00 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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Washington
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The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best. This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018. The big teams that are running are a millionaires club, that want to keep playing in their sandpit. All that aside, these teams employ many staff to run their operation, if they stop racing Pro Stock, you'll have plenty of folks looking for a job. Some of the engine guys may stay on, but I can understand why the teams are trying to stay racing. On various Facebook posts regarding this news, a lot of people are wanting Pro Mod to take it's place, some getting behind the factory based stuff. If Pro Stock goes, I'm not sure either will get up Most of the PM guys don't want to run a 24 event season. They are happy running part time. Make it a full series and many of them won't make all the races. IMO, they need to scrap the EFI, or at least let carbs run with them, because that was a giant flop. Get rid of the rev limiter, because it didn't bring in a single new competitor. Hood scoop or no hood scoop. Run PM at half the races and PS at the other half and have 3 races a year where they both compete. Say...the Winternationals, Indy and the Finals. That would be 15 races a year for each class.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2413982
12/06/17 12:49 AM
12/06/17 12:49 AM
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Posts: 20,163 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 20,163
Park Forest, IL
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There hasn't been anything "stock" in Pro Stock since the first couple years. Also, weren't the Eicke Mopar years run with his lectover Pontiac motors?
I love the technology in P/S, but it's so outof control I rarely watch anymore.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2413994
12/06/17 01:07 AM
12/06/17 01:07 AM
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Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
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TN
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It's a good idea. Cunningham, Patrick and those Ford guys can run cool looking Mustangs and be competitive. Same with Kramer and guys running Darts. Makes more money for the GM engine guys as they will have engines in everything. Racing is racing. This allows everyone with a pocketbook to be competitive and race the brand car that they want. The only thing that I'm sure will absolutely DESTROY my love for it is when someone shows up in a Camry. I think it is a joke. What made Pro stock great was the different manufactures competing against each other. NOW it is nothing more than carburetor on a Funny Car.
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: madscientist]
#2414044
12/06/17 02:57 AM
12/06/17 02:57 AM
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Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Puyallup, WA
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Most of the PM guys don't want to run a 24 event season. They are happy running part time. Make it a full series and many of them won't make all the races.
IMO, they need to scrap the EFI, or at least let carbs run with them, because that was a giant flop. Get rid of the rev limiter, because it didn't bring in a single new competitor. Hood scoop or no hood scoop.
Run PM at half the races and PS at the other half and have 3 races a year where they both compete. Say...the Winternationals, Indy and the Finals. That would be 15 races a year for each class.
More logic right there in one internet post than NHRA has shown in years.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2414051
12/06/17 03:36 AM
12/06/17 03:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
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Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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Personally, I think Pro-Stock died years ago when the body's became carbon fiber blobs with decals loosely resembling something offered by Chevrolet or Dodge. I'm not sure it can be saved by anything at this point.
I'd like to see Factory Stock take the spotlight. If they had to even the field, a weight minimum dictated solely by aero drag coefficient, keeping the cars in bone-stock Sheetmetal, with a factory built chassis and engine combination is something I'd like to see. On a unrelated note, GREAT signature pic!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2414159
12/06/17 01:28 PM
12/06/17 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356
Las Vegas
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The blocks and heads were REQUIRED to have a factory stamped part number for use in Pro Stock, unless that has changed in the very very recent past. The stuff I had all had Mopar part numbers in the head and on the block. My car also has Mopar part numbers on the entire thing, body, trunk, doors, dash etc. Don't mean much as they submit the parts for NHRA approval and once given they are produced. Same thing happened with the Eicke stuff. The were not the direct Pontiac parts, they casting was changed to make them have a Siamesed exhaust port like a factory head. Just as the latest "Hemi" run in Pro Stock is not a Hemi...
As for the comment is the current Pro Stock internals were laid out on a table I doubt most anyone here could identify them unless they had seen them previously. Age would mean nothing.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2414373
12/06/17 08:40 PM
12/06/17 08:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,627 anywhere@ anytime
actionange
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,627
anywhere@ anytime
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They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car. you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis? Oh you forgot the Lenco trans
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2414379
12/06/17 08:50 PM
12/06/17 08:50 PM
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Posts: 13,572 md
mopars4ever
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,572
md
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It's a good idea. Cunningham, Patrick and those Ford guys can run cool looking Mustangs and be competitive. Cunningham passed away a few years ago.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: scottb]
#2414443
12/06/17 10:42 PM
12/06/17 10:42 PM
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Posts: 9,719 Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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I would bet you will not see 1 Ford or 1 Mopar out there this yr with a GM motor its pro chevy camaro AJ and his dad and Mopar talked to NHRA about prostock and they wanted no part of what Mopar was asking for so they said see you later Just let it die I think you'll see a couple chevy powered darts, purely because they could be picked up cheap(ish) and they are pretty slick.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2414502
12/07/17 12:45 AM
12/07/17 12:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Great more uninformed people on the planet (or the same amount with with more ammo).......I can hear them now boy those Toyota's really run. Just another reduction to the intelligence for the almighty dollar. I have good friend that swears that Top fuel engines are Chevy because of the advertising on the body. Even after showing him the pics of that teams engine. Ever listen to stock car racing fans talk about their favorite Ford, Chevy, or Toyota. Exactly why I haven't watched any professional racing on TV for almost 2 decades. Heck I usually don't even read these post about them. I would love to watch some bracket, sportsman, or swamp-buggy racing any day. But for some reason they won't show that. Man I miss Sundays with Diamond P sports on TNN . I know times have changed..... Ever look at John Force's funny car engine? say's Chevrolet right on top of the valve cover, got to believe that right? LOL
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: actionange]
#2414624
12/07/17 11:55 AM
12/07/17 11:55 AM
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Posts: 982 western pennsylvania
b1dartsport
super stock
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super stock
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Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
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They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car. you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis? Oh you forgot the Lenco trans Tube chassis Dusters where not allowed until a year after Jenkin's Funny car Vega and they had to carry a .50 lb per c.i. weight penalty with a Hemi which was changed to .75 half way through the next season.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2415161
12/08/17 12:11 PM
12/08/17 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356
Las Vegas
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You and me noth Dave. Anyone who plays in an NA world and is not impressed by 500 cubes at 2350lbs running 6.50's is nuts....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2415178
12/08/17 12:45 PM
12/08/17 12:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
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Posts: 3,696
jersey
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And on the opposite note, power adders are VERY predictable and SHOULD go that fast.........500 cubes all motor, let that sink in plus w/enuff $$$ all of us can make just about anything fly........... Look at the Oklahoma Outlaws now, big $$$, fast et's WHEN they can get down the road/track and where does it end and how many more crashes will need to take place before people realize you can buy/build endless power which eventually can and will kill you........... Power adders are far from predictable. Not many N/A cars are just starting to lift the wheels at the 330 mark, or start to lose traction at half track.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2415206
12/08/17 01:36 PM
12/08/17 01:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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The same guy who thought EFI and losing the hood scoops would save the class now thinks essentially a spec engine will save the class.
Wrong again WJ.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: madscientist]
#2415245
12/08/17 02:39 PM
12/08/17 02:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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The same guy who thought EFI and losing the hood scoops would save the class now thinks essentially a spec engine will save the class.
Wrong again WJ. Considering this was done because it’s what the teams asked for, I’d take the opinion of someone who actually competed in the class for 40 years, over that of the fans. Personally, I think pro STOCK died in about 1973.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2415247
12/08/17 02:49 PM
12/08/17 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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As soon as they put a rev limiter on the hemi they killed that engine.. its no wonder that Chrysler pulled the plug.. if Chrysler was winning they would have put money in it
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2415249
12/08/17 02:55 PM
12/08/17 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,356
Las Vegas
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The RPM killed the Asymmetric head, teams chose not to pursue the symmetrical port head when it was released because the asymmetric head made more power. With the intro of EFI and the RPM limit the symmetrical port head is a better design. But since no one was developing that platform they fell behind. They were making strides with it and given a bit more time I am quite sure they would be right there again. Kramer stayed with the asymmetrical stuff as that's what they had their time and money tied up in. No different than how those changes affected the DRCE2 stuff. It was hurt by the ROM limit but the DRCE3 was superior. Team KB was on the development of the 3 head way before anyone else which is why they had such a quick start. To oversimplify it
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2415253
12/08/17 03:01 PM
12/08/17 03:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia
dthemi
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
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WJ wanted EFI near 20 years ago. The fact that they did it so late doesn't make him wrong.
Pro stock is ever advancing, despite funding losses. I've been at WJ's on holidays, even on Sunday mornings,and sometimes late in the evenings, and he'll be filthy head to foot, with chips in his hair like stripper glitter. He never stops, and the stuff he works on spans all the tech involved. Right down to predictive software relative to head flow, that transfers straight to machine code. He, and Kurt not having sponsor money to spend in R+D is a huge waste of a dying resource.
Love the made my money racing, I won't spend it on it comment lol!
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2415691
12/09/17 12:57 PM
12/09/17 12:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,509 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,509
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast. Bill
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2415726
12/09/17 02:35 PM
12/09/17 02:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719 Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast. Bill Sounds like grass is greener syndrome after working on GM stuff for 50? years... OR silently whispering into Mopars ear that he's available to run their team.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2416880
12/11/17 06:19 PM
12/11/17 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131 Amarillo, Texas
BBR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
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Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.
Bill
I too thought it was funny how hung up he was on the Hemi.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya RMRW 2018 RMRW 2020
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: LSP]
#2417020
12/11/17 10:23 PM
12/11/17 10:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage. Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close. Just wondering.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2417301
12/12/17 01:10 PM
12/12/17 01:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Well, WJ certainly nailed what the Camaro looks like.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: madscientist]
#2418717
12/14/17 10:22 PM
12/14/17 10:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,313 Charlotte, NC
LSP
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,313
Charlotte, NC
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The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage. Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close. Just wondering. Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC. More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank.
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Re: The Pro Stock circus continues
[Re: LSP]
#2418895
12/15/17 09:43 AM
12/15/17 09:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage. Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close. Just wondering. Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC. More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank. Well since the width of the rod journal, width of the connecting rod's big end and the bore offset are all interrelated just how many thousandths of an inch are we talking about?
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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