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#2413238 - 12/04/17 05:52 PM The Pro Stock circus continues
pittsburghracer Offline
Slowride

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 12962
Loc: PA.
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1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.89 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
6.001@113.27mph
9.44@138.23

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2413246 - 12/04/17 06:18 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 10210
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Used to be my favorite class.....Now its Promod and I am sure they will screw that up.
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'71 Duster Pump Gas 512LD 2013 Mod Gas Winner GRS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_XTmRBuvWs (6.19)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZGfDBPROM (9.70 at 138.5mph)

'70 Cuda, Plan C....605 Hemi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.31)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

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#2413253 - 12/04/17 06:27 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1923
Loc: Cotati, CA
It's a good idea. Cunningham, Patrick and those Ford guys can run cool looking Mustangs and be competitive. Same with Kramer and guys running Darts. Makes more money for the GM engine guys as they will have engines in everything. Racing is racing. This allows everyone with a pocketbook to be competitive and race the brand car that they want. The only thing that I'm sure will absolutely DESTROY my love for it is when someone shows up in a Camry.

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#2413286 - 12/04/17 07:18 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Steve1118 Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2690
Loc: Walton's Mountain, Pa
A high dollar Comp eliminator. The same guys will still dominate, there will be no difference. The cars/engines are close now......AJ''s Dodges are within a half a tenth of the leaders. The problem is the cars are too refined, they don't make a bad run. So, it might as well light years. The days of someone coming out of the middle of the pack, even though it's within a few hundredths, and winning on a hole shot, or because someone misses a shift or even a shift point, are over. The cars are like watching robots. Not even fun to watch.
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#2413291 - 12/04/17 07:31 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Steve1118]
Locomotion Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5512
Loc: Florida
puke
I guess to the "average" spectator, it doesn't matter. As long as it goes fast and makes a lot of noise. Gotta hand it to Allen Johnson. He maintained brand loyalty and purity to the end, despite the odds.
Pro Stock - the original "factory hot rods" RIP. It's where the FS cars should be.

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#2413304 - 12/04/17 07:58 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 3184
Loc: jersey
I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster......
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#2413321 - 12/04/17 08:36 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4325
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster......

Well golly, I thought the Hemi was a Plymouth engine! And Vegas came with small blocks, who would of thought

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#2413323 - 12/04/17 08:38 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff]
actionange Offline
pro stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 1523
Loc: anywhere@ anytime
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster......


Or a Boss 429 in a Maverick...
Really???

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#2413326 - 12/04/17 08:50 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Chris2581 Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6531
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Now the class will be boring .
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#2413331 - 12/04/17 08:54 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: Washington
It's all a ruse to get Toyota into the class.

What a joke.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2413357 - 12/04/17 09:49 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Locomotion]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By Locomotion
puke
I guess to the "average" spectator, it doesn't matter. As long as it goes fast and makes a lot of noise. Gotta hand it to Allen Johnson. He maintained brand loyalty and purity to the end, despite the odds.
Pro Stock - the original "factory hot rods" RIP. It's where the FS cars should be.


iagree

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#2413367 - 12/04/17 10:12 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist]
LA360 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5554
Loc: Melbourne , Australia
Originally Posted By madscientist
It's all a ruse to get Toyota into the class.

What a joke.


Yep!
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#2413408 - 12/04/17 11:18 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
topside Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12282
Loc: So Near, Yet So Far
Well, the Fuel classes all run what still looks like a Gen 2 Hemi, so I guess the GM-ish engines in all the PS cars is about the same logic.
That aero reference is because the PS bodies are approved in a standardized form, which is why they look Pro-Mod-ish.
ProStock's gravestone will read "1970-2017".

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#2413437 - 12/05/17 12:02 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
rowin4 Offline
master

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 6078
Loc: gulfport, ms, west mi
I was watching Jay Leno's garage awhile back. He went for a drive in a I believe a Score [ Toyota ] off road race truck. The owner said it was powered by a Toyota engine that could run 10,000 RPM's all day . Maybe the Chevy's will be taking a break from the winners circle or there will be a lot of toyota engines in Chevys.
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#2413444 - 12/05/17 12:17 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: rowin4]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By rowin4
I was watching Jay Leno's garage awhile back. He went for a drive in a I believe a Score [ Toyota ] off road race truck. The owner said it was powered by a Toyota engine that could run 10,000 RPM's all day . Maybe the Chevy's will be taking a break from the winners circle or there will be a lot of toyota engines in Chevys.



Those Toyotas are not Toyotas. They are an amalgamation of the Chevy and dodge engines.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2413448 - 12/05/17 12:25 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
rowin4 Offline
master

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 6078
Loc: gulfport, ms, west mi
Why doesn't NHRA do a spinoff of pro stock and call it PS/C similar to our SS class SS /H for the old HEMI cars. It's all Chevy anyway.
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#2413528 - 12/05/17 09:54 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Al_Alguire Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: Rockville MD & Las Vegas
Here comes Toyota..This is not new news per se'. The word of this coming has been floating around most of last year.
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#2413560 - 12/05/17 11:01 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Al_Alguire]
B1MAXX Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 741
Loc: Apollo, PA.
Great more uninformed people on the planet (or the same amount with with more ammo).......I can hear them now boy those Toyota's really run. Just another reduction to the intelligence for the almighty dollar. I have good friend that swears that Top fuel engines are Chevy because of the advertising on the body. Even after showing him the pics of that teams engine. Ever listen to stock car racing fans talk about their favorite Ford, Chevy, or Toyota. Exactly why I haven't watched any professional racing on TV for almost 2 decades. Heck I usually don't even read these post about them. I would love to watch some bracket, sportsman, or swamp-buggy racing any day. But for some reason they won't show that. Man I miss Sundays with Diamond P sports on TNN bawling . I know times have changed.....

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#2413567 - 12/05/17 11:25 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: B1MAXX]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9612
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
Quick Question,

Will a a mid 60's iron 396 Chevy head or Crank still physically bolt into a DRCE motor?
I believe an original 66 Hemi head or crank will still drop into a modern top fuel block. to me that is the Litmus test. if they hybrid P/S it is no longer a valid class, it's basically a homogenized heads-up comp eliminator class with spec engines...what could be more boring.

I suppose the goal to the NHRA is the perception of diversity, I wouldn't be suprised if there aren't 'back-door' incentives to rebody your Camaro to a dodge or a Mustang...that might actually appeal to the Summit or Jegs teams.

Brand loyalty has almost completely vanished from motorsports, sadly it's all about the show anymore. It means no more than the corporate "Stadium Naming" in the NFL. Things that mattered to older generations for the most part were not passed down to younger generations. Maybe if we had all the distractions and diversions in our day that kids have today we would at least be able to understand it better.
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WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2413572 - 12/05/17 11:32 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 3184
Loc: jersey
The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best.
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#2413574 - 12/05/17 11:33 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: B1MAXX]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4325
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By B1MAXX
Great more uninformed people on the planet (or the same amount with with more ammo).......I can hear them now boy those Toyota's really run. Just another reduction to the intelligence for the almighty dollar. I have good friend that swears that Top fuel engines are Chevy because of the advertising on the body. Even after showing him the pics of that teams engine. Ever listen to stock car racing fans talk about their favorite Ford, Chevy, or Toyota. Exactly why I haven't watched any professional racing on TV for almost 2 decades. Heck I usually don't even read these post about them. I would love to watch some bracket, sportsman, or swamp-buggy racing any day. But for some reason they won't show that. Man I miss Sundays with Diamond P sports on TNN bawling . I know times have changed.....

I agree, the same as everything else today, repeating what they hear, with no understanding what so ever of the topic. Back in the day you found out what was right before you spouted off like an idiot. We where car junkies, not game boys. As far as Toyota, the other three can get off their butts and spend the jack to compete, they're still living on last years fame, plus the "owner" we have at FCA is out to lunch and going back to V6s and 4 cyl, full circle back to the wonderful years.

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#2413584 - 12/05/17 11:51 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: cudaman1969]
Rhinodart Offline
Rhinotruck

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 36305
Loc: Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Really?!? The future is in 4 cylinder turbo cars and electric, the days of V8 muscle will end when this current crop of muscle cars are done in the next couple of years. work
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#2413592 - 12/05/17 12:07 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Rhinodart]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By Rhinodart
Really?!? The future is in 4 cylinder turbo cars and electric, the days of V8 muscle will end when this current crop of muscle cars are done in the next couple of years. work



Glad I won't be around to see that future.

Truly we are devolving.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2413610 - 12/05/17 12:38 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9612
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
The only reason I can think of for the teams asking for this is so they can possibly go for more MFG moneys since Chevy's marketing "pot" split 16 ways probably isn't enough to buy spark plugs for a season.

But what MFG is going to offer up sponsorship $$ in PRO STOCK when everything is a GM motor.... Top fuel and Funny Car all run mopar motors and there's not really enough $$$ in it for GM or Ford to justify spending $$$ for a brand specific block and heads...is there? Maybe when Force did the re-badged ford Hemi is somehow talked them into that? but not for pro-stock.
_________________________
WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2413642 - 12/05/17 01:31 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10894
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
I know when I think of the epitome of the pure iconic American muscle car....... Camry is right there at the top of the list.
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#2413690 - 12/05/17 02:48 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: fast68plymouth]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
I know when I think of the epitome of the pure iconic American muscle car....... Camry is right there at the top of the list.


Years ago when the Camry was first introduced the local toyota dealer was on the radio advertising them as "the toyota cam ray". What a dufus.

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#2413708 - 12/05/17 03:17 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4325
Loc: fredericksburg,va
In the south it's called Tiota, or Tiyota, some pronounce the y, some don't, like root one or route one (the highway)

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#2413722 - 12/05/17 03:41 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
StealthWedge67 Offline
master

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 4098
Loc: Puyallup, WA
Personally, I think Pro-Stock died years ago when the body's became carbon fiber blobs with decals loosely resembling something offered by Chevrolet or Dodge. I'm not sure it can be saved by anything at this point.

I'd like to see Factory Stock take the spotlight. If they had to even the field, a weight minimum dictated solely by aero drag coefficient, keeping the cars in bone-stock Sheetmetal, with a factory built chassis and engine combination is something I'd like to see.
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#2413728 - 12/05/17 03:46 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: StealthWedge67]
sixpackbee Offline
master

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 2965
Loc: Western New York
Basically funny cars with doors and gasoline now. Will not change the landscape much in the near future. The last Dodge after Allen was switching anyhow. Maybe Wescott will get back into it. Still has the car I think.

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#2413738 - 12/05/17 04:08 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13776
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best.

This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018.
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#2413800 - 12/05/17 05:26 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
BBR Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 7117
Loc: Texas
I like it. This will allow Ford and Mopar to participate as sponsors without having to deal with the exorbitant costs of PS engine development. PS engines are freaks that bear no resemblance or commonality (other than name) to anything I will ever own, so my brand loyalty in that respect is weak at best.

Heck, I would venture a guess that if you took all 3 PS engines apart and set all the parts out, most guys couldn't tell what was "GM", "Ford" or "Mopar" anyway.
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#2413815 - 12/05/17 05:45 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 4325
Loc: fredericksburg,va
"Heck, I would venture a guess that if you took all 3 PS engines apart and set all the parts out, most guys couldn't tell what was "GM", "Ford" or "Mopar" anyway."

That depends on how old you are, over 50, you can tell. THAT is the problem today with all forms of racing. As memory's fade, so does the why of what it once was all about.


Edited by cudaman1969 (12/05/17 05:46 PM)

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#2413844 - 12/05/17 06:48 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
SportF Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 799
Loc: Minn
They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car.

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#2413866 - 12/05/17 07:25 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: BradH]
LA360 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5554
Loc: Melbourne , Australia
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best.

This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018.



The big teams that are running are a millionaires club, that want to keep playing in their sandpit.
All that aside, these teams employ many staff to run their operation, if they stop racing Pro Stock, you'll have plenty of folks looking for a job. Some of the engine guys may stay on, but I can understand why the teams are trying to stay racing.

On various Facebook posts regarding this news, a lot of people are wanting Pro Mod to take it's place, some getting behind the factory based stuff. If Pro Stock goes, I'm not sure either will get up
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Alan Jones

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#2413898 - 12/05/17 08:16 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: SportF]
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 3184
Loc: jersey
Originally Posted By SportF
They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car.


you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis?
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526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!

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#2413939 - 12/05/17 09:00 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: LA360]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By LA360
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best.

This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018.



The big teams that are running are a millionaires club, that want to keep playing in their sandpit.
All that aside, these teams employ many staff to run their operation, if they stop racing Pro Stock, you'll have plenty of folks looking for a job. Some of the engine guys may stay on, but I can understand why the teams are trying to stay racing.

On various Facebook posts regarding this news, a lot of people are wanting Pro Mod to take it's place, some getting behind the factory based stuff. If Pro Stock goes, I'm not sure either will get up



Most of the PM guys don't want to run a 24 event season. They are happy running part time. Make it a full series and many of them won't make all the races.

IMO, they need to scrap the EFI, or at least let carbs run with them, because that was a giant flop. Get rid of the rev limiter, because it didn't bring in a single new competitor. Hood scoop or no hood scoop.

Run PM at half the races and PS at the other half and have 3 races a year where they both compete. Say...the Winternationals, Indy and the Finals. That would be 15 races a year for each class.
_________________________
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2413982 - 12/05/17 09:49 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
slantzilla Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 18102
Loc: Park Forest, IL
There hasn't been anything "stock" in Pro Stock since the first couple years. Also, weren't the Eicke Mopar years run with his lectover Pontiac motors?

I love the technology in P/S, but it's so outof control I rarely watch anymore.
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#2413994 - 12/05/17 10:07 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Dave Hall]
SCATPACK 1 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1425
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By Dave Hall
It's a good idea. Cunningham, Patrick and those Ford guys can run cool looking Mustangs and be competitive. Same with Kramer and guys running Darts. Makes more money for the GM engine guys as they will have engines in everything. Racing is racing. This allows everyone with a pocketbook to be competitive and race the brand car that they want. The only thing that I'm sure will absolutely DESTROY my love for it is when someone shows up in a Camry.


I think it is a joke. What made Pro stock great was the different manufactures competing against each other. NOW it is nothing more than carburetor on a Funny Car.
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#2414018 - 12/05/17 10:52 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: slantzilla]
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1923
Loc: Cotati, CA
Hence the birth of the predator cyl. head. Along with Nickens. I believe that the rule when they were running is that the engine case casting had to have (same as the car) factory Pt. #'s. They must have been lenient with cyl. heads and let them use a sharpie. apimp

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#2414044 - 12/05/17 11:57 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist]
StealthWedge67 Offline
master

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 4098
Loc: Puyallup, WA
Originally Posted By madscientist



Most of the PM guys don't want to run a 24 event season. They are happy running part time. Make it a full series and many of them won't make all the races.

IMO, they need to scrap the EFI, or at least let carbs run with them, because that was a giant flop. Get rid of the rev limiter, because it didn't bring in a single new competitor. Hood scoop or no hood scoop.

Run PM at half the races and PS at the other half and have 3 races a year where they both compete. Say...the Winternationals, Indy and the Finals. That would be 15 races a year for each class.


More logic right there in one internet post than NHRA has shown in years.
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#2414051 - 12/06/17 12:36 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: StealthWedge67]
cudadoug Offline
master

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3049
Loc: Between a rock & a hard place
Originally Posted By StealthWedge67
Personally, I think Pro-Stock died years ago when the body's became carbon fiber blobs with decals loosely resembling something offered by Chevrolet or Dodge. I'm not sure it can be saved by anything at this point.

I'd like to see Factory Stock take the spotlight. If they had to even the field, a weight minimum dictated solely by aero drag coefficient, keeping the cars in bone-stock Sheetmetal, with a factory built chassis and engine combination is something I'd like to see.


On a unrelated note, GREAT signature pic!

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#2414159 - 12/06/17 10:28 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Al_Alguire Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: Rockville MD & Las Vegas
The blocks and heads were REQUIRED to have a factory stamped part number for use in Pro Stock, unless that has changed in the very very recent past. The stuff I had all had Mopar part numbers in the head and on the block. My car also has Mopar part numbers on the entire thing, body, trunk, doors, dash etc. Don't mean much as they submit the parts for NHRA approval and once given they are produced. Same thing happened with the Eicke stuff. The were not the direct Pontiac parts, they casting was changed to make them have a Siamesed exhaust port like a factory head. Just as the latest "Hemi" run in Pro Stock is not a Hemi...

As for the comment is the current Pro Stock internals were laid out on a table I doubt most anyone here could identify them unless they had seen them previously. Age would mean nothing.
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#2414214 - 12/06/17 11:51 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
scottb Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Smyrna Beach FL
I would bet you will not see 1 Ford or 1 Mopar out there this yr with a GM motor its pro chevy camaro AJ and his dad and Mopar talked to NHRA about prostock and they wanted no part of what Mopar was asking for so they said see you later Just let it die

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#2414373 - 12/06/17 05:40 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff]
actionange Offline
pro stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 1523
Loc: anywhere@ anytime
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
Originally Posted By SportF
They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car.


you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis?


Oh you forgot the Lenco trans

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#2414379 - 12/06/17 05:50 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
mopars4ever Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10878
Loc: md
Quote:
It's a good idea. Cunningham, Patrick and those Ford guys can run cool looking Mustangs and be competitive.
Cunningham passed away a few years ago.

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#2414443 - 12/06/17 07:42 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: scottb]
sp392 Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 8992
Loc: Etobicoke
Originally Posted By scottb
I would bet you will not see 1 Ford or 1 Mopar out there this yr with a GM motor its pro chevy camaro AJ and his dad and Mopar talked to NHRA about prostock and they wanted no part of what Mopar was asking for so they said see you later Just let it die


I think you'll see a couple chevy powered darts, purely because they could be picked up cheap(ish) and they are pretty slick.

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#2414502 - 12/06/17 09:45 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: B1MAXX]
rowin4 Offline
master

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 6078
Loc: gulfport, ms, west mi
Originally Posted By B1MAXX
Great more uninformed people on the planet (or the same amount with with more ammo).......I can hear them now boy those Toyota's really run. Just another reduction to the intelligence for the almighty dollar. I have good friend that swears that Top fuel engines are Chevy because of the advertising on the body. Even after showing him the pics of that teams engine. Ever listen to stock car racing fans talk about their favorite Ford, Chevy, or Toyota. Exactly why I haven't watched any professional racing on TV for almost 2 decades. Heck I usually don't even read these post about them. I would love to watch some bracket, sportsman, or swamp-buggy racing any day. But for some reason they won't show that. Man I miss Sundays with Diamond P sports on TNN bawling . I know times have changed.....





Ever look at John Force's funny car engine? say's Chevrolet right on top of the valve cover, got to believe that right? LOL
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#2414586 - 12/07/17 06:24 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Spaceman Spiff Offline
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#2414620 - 12/07/17 08:45 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: rowin4]
BuckeyeBrawler Offline
member

Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Ohio, United States
Just when you think NHRA couldn't do anything any dumber, THEY GO OUT AND TOTALLY REDEEM THEMSELVES !! Just my opinion, they should have to use FACTORY Steel roof and quarter panels and motor combination that is currently offered in a PRODUCTION vehicle let them run the factory super chargers or turbos of that manufacture. After all it's supposed to be pro STOCK !! Ok now I'll shut up. NHRA pro stock is now pronounced dead.

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#2414624 - 12/07/17 08:55 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: actionange]
b1dartsport Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 925
Loc: western pennsylvania
Originally Posted By actionange
Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
Originally Posted By SportF
They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car.


you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis?


Oh you forgot the Lenco trans
Tube chassis Dusters where not allowed until a year after Jenkin's Funny car Vega and they had to carry a .50 lb per c.i. weight penalty with a Hemi which was changed to .75 half way through the next season.

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#2414837 - 12/07/17 03:36 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: StealthWedge67]
BobR Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 7914
Loc: Left Coast
Pro Stock sucks to watch because it has no power adders. 6.50 1/4 mile? Oh boy! 213 mph? My car goes 205 to the 1/8th. And it costs a fortune to be that unimpressive. Pro Mod is the next big thing but the NHRA is already messing with that. Spectators love nitro and the sound big power turbo cars make. The rest is just time fillers.

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#2414891 - 12/07/17 05:10 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: BobR]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18738
Loc: State of confusion
And on the opposite note, power adders are VERY predictable and SHOULD go that fast.........500 cubes all motor, let that sink in plus w/enuff $$$ all of us can make just about anything fly........... twocents

Look at the Oklahoma Outlaws now, big $$$, fast et's WHEN they can get down the road/track and where does it end and how many more crashes will need to take place before people realize you can buy/build endless power which eventually can and will kill you........... beer
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#2415067 - 12/07/17 11:15 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: BobR]
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1923
Loc: Cotati, CA
I'm impressed! shruggy

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#2415161 - 12/08/17 09:11 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Al_Alguire Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: Rockville MD & Las Vegas
You and me noth Dave. Anyone who plays in an NA world and is not impressed by 500 cubes at 2350lbs running 6.50's is nuts....
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#2415178 - 12/08/17 09:45 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Thumperdart]
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 3184
Loc: jersey
Originally Posted By Thumperdart
And on the opposite note, power adders are VERY predictable and SHOULD go that fast.........500 cubes all motor, let that sink in plus w/enuff $$$ all of us can make just about anything fly........... twocents

Look at the Oklahoma Outlaws now, big $$$, fast et's WHEN they can get down the road/track and where does it end and how many more crashes will need to take place before people realize you can buy/build endless power which eventually can and will kill you........... beer


Power adders are far from predictable. Not many N/A cars are just starting to lift the wheels at the 330 mark, or start to lose traction at half track.
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#2415194 - 12/08/17 10:12 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9612
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
If I was still interested in Pro Stock (which i haven't been since the dodge boys days)

I would like to see basically the pro stock truck smallblock motors limited to about 370" (6.2-ish litres) with no RPM limits and in Carbon Fiber but all stock/oem dimension bodies. If they whine about standard overhangs, go to a rollout type double trigger light where it has to be off the wheels (similar to the starting line) You could run a Challenger....or a Dart, a Mustang or a Fusion, a Camaro or a whatever. That to me would be far more exciting and interesting to watch and would be more or less back to the early 80's concept of Pro-stock.

won't happen, but it's a nice dream.
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World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

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In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2415202 - 12/08/17 10:27 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Al_Alguire Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: Rockville MD & Las Vegas
Well here is some insight from someone who ran the class for a very very long time on the new rules package.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/pro-stock-legend-johnson-shares-his-thoughts-2018-pro-stock-rules
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"It's never wrong to do the right thing"

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#2415206 - 12/08/17 10:36 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: Washington
The same guy who thought EFI and losing the hood scoops would save the class now thinks essentially a spec engine will save the class.

Wrong again WJ.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2415223 - 12/08/17 11:02 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9612
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
Wonder if (conversely, as WJ pointed out) somebody like KB start tinkering with the Hemi? I know both Line and Anderson have Mopar history going way back.
_________________________
WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2415245 - 12/08/17 11:39 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist]
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 3184
Loc: jersey
Originally Posted By madscientist
The same guy who thought EFI and losing the hood scoops would save the class now thinks essentially a spec engine will save the class.

Wrong again WJ.


Considering this was done because it’s what the teams asked for, I’d take the opinion of someone who actually competed in the class for 40 years, over that of the fans.
Personally, I think pro STOCK died in about 1973.
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526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!

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#2415247 - 12/08/17 11:49 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Spaceman Spiff]
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master

Registered: 06/13/03
Posts: 50757
Loc: Romeo MI
As soon as they put a rev limiter on the hemi
they killed that engine.. its no wonder that
Chrysler pulled the plug.. if Chrysler was winning
they would have put money in it
wave
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#2415249 - 12/08/17 11:55 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Al_Alguire Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: Rockville MD & Las Vegas
The RPM killed the Asymmetric head, teams chose not to pursue the symmetrical port head when it was released because the asymmetric head made more power. With the intro of EFI and the RPM limit the symmetrical port head is a better design. But since no one was developing that platform they fell behind. They were making strides with it and given a bit more time I am quite sure they would be right there again. Kramer stayed with the asymmetrical stuff as that's what they had their time and money tied up in. No different than how those changes affected the DRCE2 stuff. It was hurt by the ROM limit but the DRCE3 was superior. Team KB was on the development of the 3 head way before anyone else which is why they had such a quick start. To oversimplify it
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#2415253 - 12/08/17 12:01 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
dthemi Offline
master

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 2663
Loc: back in Georgia
WJ wanted EFI near 20 years ago. The fact that they did it so late doesn't make him wrong.

Pro stock is ever advancing, despite funding losses. I've been at WJ's on holidays, even on Sunday mornings,and sometimes late in the evenings, and he'll be filthy head to foot, with chips in his hair like stripper glitter. He never stops, and the stuff he works on spans all the tech involved. Right down to predictive software relative to head flow, that transfers straight to machine code. He, and Kurt not having sponsor money to spend in R+D is a huge waste of a dying resource.

Love the made my money racing, I won't spend it on it comment lol!

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#2415361 - 12/08/17 04:01 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: dthemi]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9612
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
Are there any pics of the current state of the art DRCE Heads out there? Last ones I've seen up close were a few years ago (which I guess is a generation ago in pro stock)
_________________________
WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

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#2415691 - 12/09/17 09:57 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Al_Alguire]
340Cuda Offline
top fuel

Registered: 04/04/03
Posts: 1973
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Well here is some insight from someone who ran the class for a very very long time on the new rules package.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/pro-stock-legend-johnson-shares-his-thoughts-2018-pro-stock-rules

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill

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#2415726 - 12/09/17 11:35 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: 340Cuda]
sp392 Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 8992
Loc: Etobicoke
Originally Posted By 340Cuda
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Well here is some insight from someone who ran the class for a very very long time on the new rules package.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/pro-stock-legend-johnson-shares-his-thoughts-2018-pro-stock-rules

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill


Sounds like grass is greener syndrome after working on GM stuff for 50? years... OR silently whispering into Mopars ear that he's available to run their team.

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#2416880 - 12/11/17 03:19 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: 340Cuda]
BBR Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 7117
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By 340Cuda

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill


I too thought it was funny how hung up he was on the Hemi.
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#2417010 - 12/11/17 07:08 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
LSP Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1190
Loc: Dallas, TX
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.

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#2417020 - 12/11/17 07:23 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: LSP]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By LSP
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.



Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2417301 - 12/12/17 10:10 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Well, WJ certainly nailed what the Camaro looks like. laugh2
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The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
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#2417324 - 12/12/17 10:48 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: Guitar Jones]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9545
Loc: W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
Well, WJ certainly nailed what the Camaro looks like. laugh2


This is one of the few times I can say i agree with what WJ has said. biggrin

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#2418717 - 12/14/17 07:22 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: madscientist]
LSP Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1190
Loc: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By LSP
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.



Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.


Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC.

More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank.

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#2418755 - 12/14/17 08:34 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
scottb Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Smyrna Beach FL
Toyota did not build there motor nascar told them here’s the block now copy it just like Mopar and GM when was the last time you looked at a small block Chevy and seen the dist in the front of the motor there all using a version of a ford block

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#2418759 - 12/14/17 08:41 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
LSP Offline
super stock

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1190
Loc: Dallas, TX
You're right, I'm clueless.

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#2418792 - 12/14/17 09:47 PM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: pittsburghracer]
scottb Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Smyrna Beach FL
Never said you were clueless

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#2418895 - 12/15/17 06:43 AM Re: The Pro Stock circus continues [Re: LSP]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 9726
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Originally Posted By LSP
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By LSP
The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.



Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.


Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC.

More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank.


Well since the width of the rod journal, width of the connecting rod's big end and the bore offset are all interrelated just how many thousandths of an inch are we talking about?
_________________________
The Scamp is sold, now just two old trucks.
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc conversion. Hydroboost coming soon
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NP435, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Magnum 5.2 MPI coming soon.

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