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#2361303 - 08/28/17 05:34 PM 5.7 hemi tick
dstryr Offline
master

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 2942
Loc: Wendy, I'm home.
Okay guys, just replaced the 5.7 in my '13 Ram 1500 with a factory New engine. At 112,124 miles my daughter started the truck and said it started ticking. All the advice I got, including from my regular and reputable mechanic said 'sounds like the hemi tick'. Well... it wasn't.

Maybe at first it was but I saw the failed parts. The Chrysler dealer mechanic showed me the parts from the roller end, a pivot point he called it, I though it was a shaft that the needle bearings rode on, had a flat spot. Retainers broke and the needle bearings came out and then my cam was gone with a crap load of metal in the pan.

Yep, 112,124 miles and Chrysler Care set me up with some good will warranty help but only partial.

So, to the Question of the Day:

What is failing when an engine has the Hemi Tick? Has a Post Mortem been done to actually explain it?

Is the lifter collapsing? It the roller failing? Something else?

TIA
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#2361323 - 08/28/17 06:05 PM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9833
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Roller lifters stop rolling and eat the cam.

I also see the pushrod/rocker interface wear out and start ticking, probably even more common actually. We seen one that was so bad it sounded like a duramax, swapped in rockers and pushrods and now its smooth and quiet.
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#2361336 - 08/28/17 06:31 PM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
dstryr Offline
master

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 2942
Loc: Wendy, I'm home.
Thanks Dave.

So the pushrod/rocker interface wears and the lifter doesn't take up slack?

I have also read a lot of comments(not on moparts) where owners are going to a 5w30 weight oil and the tick stops and they drive many thousands of more miles without a failure. Do you know what's up with that?

Or, the tick is just 'there' and they continue to drive thousands and tens of thousands more miles without a failure, and its not the exhaust leak tick.

Maybe they're just living on borrowed time?
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dstryr, since 1986.

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#2361475 - 08/28/17 10:06 PM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 9075
Loc: Charleston
The thinner oil makes its way thru the shafts then rockers down thru the pushrods into the lifters quicker than a thicker oil will.
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#2407736 - 11/23/17 01:52 AM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
Rockystock Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Knoxville, TN
I bought a 392 Hemi from a 2016 Challenger with only 10,000 miles but I think the rocker assemblies are the same as the 5.7. Did the MDS delete and found that the pushrods were not very straight and were all considerably shorter than their spec. of 6.800" (intake) and 8.100" (exhaust), some by 0.016"! My intake rods averaged about 0.006" short; exhaust rods averaged 0.014" short. In addition, six of the rocker end tips were galled along with the corresponding rockers.

My MDS lifters also looked odd - the push pins were misaligned on all but one of them. I hadn't heard it run before purchasing but can't imagine it sounded well.

So in addition to the non-MDS lifters, this engine is also getting a set of new 3/8" 0.120" wall pushrods (0.145" for the intake because the maker is phasing out 0.120" wall) and new rocker assemblies.

I don't think individual rockers are available, but Mopar has revised their rocker assemblies in a way that appears to increase the duration of oil flow to the pushrods and lifters per cycle. They've added a chamfer to each oil hole to the rockers (see pics below). The rockers also appear to be cast differently, but the overall dimensions appear identical to the old rockers (maybe stronger material?). They are part numbers 53021552AB and 53021553AB.


Attachments
Stock Pushrod Tip - Rocker End.jpg

New Rocker Shafts - General.jpg

New vs Old Rocker Shafts - Chamfered oil holes.jpg

New vs Old Rocker Shafts - valve tip oil hole.jpg




Edited by Rockystock (11/27/17 09:33 PM)

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#2407759 - 11/23/17 07:06 AM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 24355
Loc: Texas
Interesting, that chamfer will make a nice difference in flow..
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#2409492 - 11/27/17 01:00 AM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
Rockystock Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Knoxville, TN
The "hemi tick" surely has several possible causes, but aside from trying different oils or additives, changing out the pushrods (and the rockers if there's evidence of tip wear) is probably one of the easier things to try. I think the stock pushrods are just poorly sized and straightened from the manufacturer, and can cause at least some slop in the valvetrain.

OK so I was a bit bored today and took some measurements of the stock pushrods from my engine and compared them to a set of aftermarket rods. The aftermarket rods are a three-piece version and are probably good, but I'll be sending them back for a set of one-piece rods that are advertised to be straight to within 0.001", length to spec within 0.002". Full OCD.

Tip diameter - Didn't bother to plot these, because they were all right at 0.312" (5/16") for both stock and aftermarket.

I refuse to spend around $100 for a pushrod straightness checker stand, so for the total indicated runout, I placed the pushrod ends (with a bit of assembly lube) into two of my old rockers, and clamped the rockers to a workbench. Digital indicator was resting on the workbench. The 1" digital indicator is a Harbor Freight POS, supposedly good to +/- 0.001". It took some patience and finessing with this setup, but I was able to get a repeatable set of measurements. The values shown on the plot are the maximum of three for each rod (one measurement taken at the center and about 1" from each end).

Lengths were measured with an Insize brand dial caliper, 0-12", accuracy +/- 0.001".


Attachments
Pushrod TIR Measuring.jpg

Pushrod TIR Comparison.png

Pushrod Length Comparison.png



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#2409495 - 11/27/17 03:32 AM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
aus370 Offline
member

Registered: 10/17/17
Posts: 42
Loc: Australia
Good work, Love the runout checker .
I was thinking about using a rotary burr to add the chamfers to my older shafts , but maybe not a good idea , it may cause flaking of the surface hardening
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#2409741 - 11/27/17 04:23 PM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
Silver70 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 18208
Loc: Rust Belt, SW PA
I built an 04 5.7 thats in my truck by using the later eagle years pistons, because I had a set with 5k miles. To get the compression up, I had .020 taken off the heads. No tick or any valve train noise at all. Used the stock length pushrods. Seems longer pushrods would fix the noise. My 06 magnum, I regret not doing the same when the engine was apart.
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#2409945 - 11/27/17 10:41 PM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: aus370]
Rockystock Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Good point on doing a DIY chamfer. Mopar might have also modified the bulk material properties of the shafts to accommodate the chamfers (maybe increased toughness?). I don't think I'd have the cajones to chamfer my own though lol. Unless Mopar were to tell us what they changed beyond the obvious, hmmm...

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#2410000 - 11/28/17 02:18 AM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: Silver70]
Rockystock Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Knoxville, TN
It makes sense that you have less or no excessive valvetrain noise with effectively longer pushrods, since you're probably running with more preload than completely stock. How much, no idea. If your stock pushrods are similarly shorter than their spec length as mine are, your head decking may have come really close to balancing out the short rods. If you know the angle the pushrods make relative to the cylinder deck, you may be able to calculate the effective pushrod lengths needed. May just be easier to measure lengths with the special adjustable pushrod and checking spring...

Alternatively, you could be running with too much preload which may cause excessive lifter pump-up, leading to excessive valve lift, reduced power, and rough idle. Here's a brief discussion about the effects of too little or too much lifter preload: Pump It Up - Preloading Is Important!

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#2410097 - 11/28/17 10:22 AM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: dstryr]
Silver70 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 18208
Loc: Rust Belt, SW PA
There are no issues with idle or power. The truck idles perfect and runs like a stock 5.7 should. My research showed this was the most I could take off the heads and still use the stock length pushrods... been done many times before. A lot of people have done this to increase compression/power, I did it for compression but just to get it over 9 to 1 vs 8.5 or so to 1 it would have been with the newer style pistons. It's just a really quiet smooth 5.7... my magnum on the other hand, I can see why people complain about the ticking noise.

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#2410401 - 11/28/17 08:23 PM Re: 5.7 hemi tick [Re: Silver70]
Rockystock Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/17
Posts: 6
Loc: Knoxville, TN
That's pretty neat - sounds like a good solution.

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