Broke my K Frame
#2405773
11/19/17 02:02 AM
11/19/17 02:02 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
So the perch that the engine mount bolts to on the K Frame is completely broken on the passenger side. It has slid about an inch and a half away from it's original position, and it's pretty obvious to see the engine leaning way to the left.
Think this is possible to repair in the car? Lift the engine as far out of the way as possible, weld this thing back on?
Doesn't seem feasible to me, although a friend suggested it.
Pretty bummed out about this at the moment, but I guess as hard as I drive this car, it isn't unexpected.
If I have to take it out, is it reasonable to just hoist the engine out of the way, or do I really need to pull the engine and trans?
Last edited by mickm; 11/19/17 02:15 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2405854
11/19/17 10:46 AM
11/19/17 10:46 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,048 Richmond, Tx. (Houston)
GTSDave
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,048
Richmond, Tx. (Houston)
|
I supported my engine and pulled the K-Member to repair and reinforce at the steering box mounts when I broke a steering box. Made it much easier to repair it, and there was no guessing if I had repaired all the cracks. Included a pic with the k-member out. By the way this was with a low deck, 440-1 heads and the original pro parts headers. Have since gone to a custom set of headers.
-Dave
PLEASE Pray for our brothers and sisters in harms way. If you are the owner of a GTS us at the GTS Registry www.gtsregistry.com
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2405908
11/19/17 01:51 PM
11/19/17 01:51 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667 Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
|
The 70 unit is unique as it has the sway bar through the k but the steering box angle is the same as the earlier years. 71-2 the box angle changed and to use it you need the center link from those two years too then you should be ok. 71 on is the same as the e-bodies from what I've found out. Found this out when putting a 70 unit in my 65 Coronet.
Carl Kessel
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2405914
11/19/17 02:01 PM
11/19/17 02:01 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
|
Late 69 would have the same indents in the k-frame for the 70 sway bar, just no holes drilled which would be easy to do. I have a 71 k-frame in my 69 belevedere... has no issues with it.
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert 340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2406015
11/19/17 06:22 PM
11/19/17 06:22 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144
PA.
|
Take a good look at your transmission tailshaft while your are under there.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: HotRod20]
#2406034
11/19/17 07:43 PM
11/19/17 07:43 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
I agree with Pittsburghracer.....check your tail shaft while you're under there....great advice! HR20 Ugh..! Will do...
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2406118
11/19/17 11:04 PM
11/19/17 11:04 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada
RUNCHARGER
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
|
Good idea: I would expect the left mount to want to pull up, not so much the right one. I wouldn't worry about a new K-member, welding this one shouldn't take more than 30 minutes and you have to pull it out anyway.
Sheldon
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#2406137
11/19/17 11:34 PM
11/19/17 11:34 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Good idea: I would expect the left mount to want to pull up, not so much the right one. I wouldn't worry about a new K-member, welding this one shouldn't take more than 30 minutes and you have to pull it out anyway. Yea, my plan is to weld it, and just reinforce all the other welds.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2406227
11/20/17 06:05 AM
11/20/17 06:05 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
|
When you pull the kframe, take it to a machine shop and have it hot tanked, less things to burn when welding. Tim
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: astjp2]
#2406602
11/21/17 12:27 AM
11/21/17 12:27 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
|
When you pull the kframe, take it to a machine shop and have it hot tanked, less things to burn when welding. Tim That's one of the reasons I have my own hot tank, but I really need to clean it out soon.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: astjp2]
#2407193
11/22/17 02:11 AM
11/22/17 02:11 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
When you pull the kframe, take it to a machine shop and have it hot tanked, less things to burn when welding. Tim Good advice, but won't need to. It was well cleaned out when I put it in, had it powder coated before going in. Will just have to clean it well for welding.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2407613
11/22/17 11:23 PM
11/22/17 11:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,392 Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,392
Highland, MI.
|
Got down under the car today, and it is an ugly sight. The outboard side of the perch still looks like it is attached to the k frame, although a little hard to tell. The inboard side is completely separated from the frame, and bent down towards the engine, at least a few inches out of place.
So I'm going to have to bend it back into shape before it can be welded on. I may remove it and add a little structural bracing, just to be sure. Bent metal is bent metal...
I hope to have it out in the next few weeks, but we'll see... Mick, if you need to replace the K-member, you want a good rust-free one. Let me know - I have a few contacts still from TX. & AZ. that should have some good 1970 K-members. From the way you describe it, I would not even bother trying to repair it.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#2412890
12/04/17 12:47 AM
12/04/17 12:47 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Well, got started this weekend.
Now, you have your high tech way of doing things, and then you have your "whatever is laying around the garage" way of doing things.
I thought about buying a lift thingy that was only $60 shipped, but then I thought that after that it would just be sitting around, taking up space and collecting dust.
So, a few 4x4's, 2x4's and some chain, and here it is!
The perch is completely separated from the k frame. Don't have it out yet, but close. Wow! Busted that thing right off.
On another note, it's been a long time, and I don't have anything specific. How do I get the torsion bars out? And yes, all of the preload is off.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2413530
12/05/17 12:56 PM
12/05/17 12:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667 Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
|
Watch my video on YouTube about t-bar removal. The one by Roll Another One Fabrications.
Carl Kessel
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: astjp2]
#2413786
12/05/17 08:05 PM
12/05/17 08:05 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
|
When you pull the kframe, take it to a machine shop and have it hot tanked, less things to burn when welding. Tim Good luck finding a machine shop with a hot tank in California.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: Morty426]
#2413870
12/05/17 10:33 PM
12/05/17 10:33 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249 North Carolina
469runner
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249
North Carolina
|
I would highly recommend replacing the whole thing with the proper Hemi K frame This. Mega Parts will set you up. It will place the engine perfectly in the engine compartment.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: Pntastar69]
#2414056
12/06/17 04:24 AM
12/06/17 04:24 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Just removed mine over the weekend. Support the LCA's w/a jack, loosen both LCA pivot nuts, back off the height adjusters, and give the LCA's a whack w/hammer and block of wood rearward. The bars should pop right out. That worked well for the right side, left side I can't move at all. I've triple checked that all nuts are loose, clip is out at the back, but it just doesn't want to move. I put these bars in about 10 years ago, and the car hasn't seen weather, no rust or anything, but something is keeping that LCA from moving, or the bar from coming out.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: CKessel]
#2414058
12/06/17 04:26 AM
12/06/17 04:26 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Watch my video on YouTube about t-bar removal. The one by Roll Another One Fabrications. I did check this out. I played with moving the adjuster up and down, didn't help, although I didn't work it up and down and find the middle point. I'll try that.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2414140
12/06/17 12:44 PM
12/06/17 12:44 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667 Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
|
You need to get the pressure off the hexes of the bar and the sockets, then they should slide out. Factory bars have a bit of a helix/twist in the hex which helps to keep them in. Think of it as a fastener stuck in your socket, after putting some grunt to it, that you have to change the rotation back the other way for it to pop loose. Loosening up the control arm shaft nut, say a little less than 1/4", then thumping it back gets it unstuck from the k and helps it to rotate freely to further aid getting the bars free.
Carl Kessel
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2414146
12/06/17 12:57 PM
12/06/17 12:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,757 Gilbertsville, PA 19525
Pntastar69
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,757
Gilbertsville, PA 19525
|
Just removed mine over the weekend. Support the LCA's w/a jack, loosen both LCA pivot nuts, back off the height adjusters, and give the LCA's a whack w/hammer and block of wood rearward. The bars should pop right out. That worked well for the right side, left side I can't move at all. I've triple checked that all nuts are loose, clip is out at the back, but it just doesn't want to move. I put these bars in about 10 years ago, and the car hasn't seen weather, no rust or anything, but something is keeping that LCA from moving, or the bar from coming out. Try jacking up the LCA a bit more. You gotta find the sweet spot where it will slide out.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: Kern Dog]
#2414155
12/06/17 01:17 PM
12/06/17 01:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249 North Carolina
469runner
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249
North Carolina
|
You guys have a stockpile of these rare 1970 only K members? From what I understand, the 1970 model is unique, the 71-71 fits but the steering box mounts are angled slightly. I purchased a 1970 Hemi K-frame from Mega Parts. They take a small or big block frame and cut the mount perches off and weld HEMI perches on. They use a jig so the dimensions are spot on. They are usually made to order so don't let the out of stock keep you from calling in. Sometimes they will require a core to be sent in. http://www.megapartsusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MP-HKF103
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2420431
12/18/17 05:28 PM
12/18/17 05:28 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,038 N.W. Florida
Fat_Mike
master
|
master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,038
N.W. Florida
|
Ok, so got it out. I think the pictures below explain it all. I think my repair job will hold up just fine, let me know what you think. Nice job, Mick! Personally, I would have used a generous bead of super glue prior to applying the duct tape. But that might be overkill...
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: krautrock]
#2420497
12/18/17 06:37 PM
12/18/17 06:37 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
is there something weird going on with your LCA pivot tube? the weld looks strange. Yes, I noticed that as well. We will be going over the whole k frame, looking for any other issues, so I'll definitely take a closer look at that.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: Fat_Mike]
#2420499
12/18/17 06:38 PM
12/18/17 06:38 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Ok, so got it out. I think the pictures below explain it all. I think my repair job will hold up just fine, let me know what you think. Nice job, Mick! Personally, I would have used a generous bead of super glue prior to applying the duct tape. But that might be overkill... Yeah, I think so. The engine only puts out 700hp, duct tape should handle that!
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#2421278
12/20/17 01:41 AM
12/20/17 01:41 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
|
I've seen messed up control arm tubes before, they can be tricky to weld. The last few k-members that I have done I have cut the bottom open below the pin tubes and welded from the inside. Might also make sense to open the top and weld it from the top, too.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#2421939
12/21/17 05:46 PM
12/21/17 05:46 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
I've seen messed up control arm tubes before, they can be tricky to weld. The last few k-members that I have done I have cut the bottom open below the pin tubes and welded from the inside. Might also make sense to open the top and weld it from the top, too. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. If so, may be worth just finding another one. I'm hoping to have it back from the powder coating guys, (burning the old stuff off), soon, and then we can really go over it.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#2422327
12/22/17 03:23 PM
12/22/17 03:23 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
|
That car is a beast! Does it already have subframe connectors in it and the front frame rails tied together?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: jbc426]
#2422346
12/22/17 04:28 PM
12/22/17 04:28 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
That car is a beast! Does it already have subframe connectors in it and the front frame rails tied together? I have the US Cartool connectors, the ones that are welded all along the bottom of the floorpan. It makes a big difference!
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2428161
01/03/18 04:02 AM
01/03/18 04:02 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
So, here is the latest. The K frame is all welded up and ready to go. We tacked the perch on, and then I did a test fit, and it was perfect, so we finished off the welding.
I decided to stick with this (instead of going for a MegaParts hemi K frame, I have the Schumacher mounts), for the following reason. When you look at the photos, you will see how ungodly horrific the welds that held this perch on were. It's absolutely astonishing to me that as bad as these welds were, that the thing lasted this long. The welds along the seams that make the perch itself are very, very nice welds, so no worry at all there. When you compare what was there before, and what is there now, I have full confidence that it will outlive me!
I also put the FirmFeel braces on the LCA's, a few pictures of those.
We also reinforced a number of other areas on the K frame. Some welds I ground away and we redid, and some we just added in places that can only help. Pictures should say everything.
This is where the perch was welded on the top. You can see that the weld barely penetrated the metal of the perch.This is along the side. Again, astonishing these held as long as they did.A zoomed out shot.Control arm with FirmFeel brace.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2428244
01/03/18 12:52 PM
01/03/18 12:52 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357 central Florida
VL21
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
central Florida
|
WOW, some of those factory welds look like my doing!
But, I swear, I was nowhere near the the factory back then, Iowa at the time, in college.
Sooo, my welds WOULD have looked like that ...
It takes gasoline to interest me.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: VL21]
#2428278
01/03/18 02:00 PM
01/03/18 02:00 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
WOW, some of those factory welds look like my doing!
But, I swear, I was nowhere near the the factory back then, Iowa at the time, in college.
Sooo, my welds WOULD have looked like that ...
It is scary how bad some of them were. Especially that perch. The guy knew that this was holding the engine in place, but hey, good enough, I guess... I didn't show any pictures of the before on some of the others, but pretty bad. Hard to believe someone was hired with that lack of a skillset.
|
|
|
Re: Broke my K Frame
[Re: mickm]
#2428499
01/03/18 09:30 PM
01/03/18 09:30 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144
PA.
|
That looks much better. Great job
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
|
|