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#2403860 - 11/15/17 01:43 AM Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s
DGS Offline
mopar

Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 455
Loc: Graz, Austria
Has anyone done a real world comparison between the standard port Chapmans (260cc intake port) and the Trick Flows?
On paper the Chapmans seem to have an advantage on the intake pulling away starting at mid lift. On the exhaust side the Trick Flows seem to be the better choice.

Intake
Lift Chapman Trick Flow
.100 71 72
.200 157 154
.300 230 230
.400 290 282
.500 325 310
.600 351 326
.700 351 334


Exhaust
Lift: Chapman Trick Flow
.100 55 58
.200 112 130
.300 177 186
.400 211 222
.500 233 243
.600 242 253
.700 252 262

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#2403910 - 11/15/17 09:19 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
pittsburghracer Offline
Slowride

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 11901
Loc: PA.
Were they checked on the same bench? Tube on the ex, no tube.
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422 Indy headed small block
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#2403941 - 11/15/17 10:13 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10333
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
The advertised TF ex numbers are with a tube.

Power-wise, if you built enough motor to be able to exploit them, the Chapmans would make more power.
Downside.......they use a bunch of custom parts, and if you needed a replacement down the road at some point....... Good luck with that.

So...... This is another one of those "it depends" situations.

The TF heads are very nicely made heads...... And still a bargain for what they cost.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2403943 - 11/15/17 10:15 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: pittsburghracer]
krautrock Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1476
Loc: central texas
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Were they checked on the same bench? Tube on the ex, no tube.


there are chapman heads on the BB head flow chart in the archives, if that was on Dwayne's bench then it seems there is a pretty direct comparison. Trick flows flowed as advertised on his bench.

One thought, maybe the Chapman's would be a little better, but I recently saw a bair pair for sale and I think the price was $3k, for that price diff I would definitely run the PP240's...unless for some reason running an RB intake on a B motor is really advantageous for a person...

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#2403961 - 11/15/17 11:13 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
mopar dave Offline
master

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 5237
Loc: flint michigan
Sorry for asking silly questions, but are these sb or bb heads?

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#2403971 - 11/15/17 11:26 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
AndyF Online   content
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23237
Loc: Oregon
The Chapman head is superior but as Dwayne points out, also impractical for the most part these days.

The TF 240 head can be turned into a high port head that should work just as well as the Chapman but it would take some work. There is a ton of material left in the top of the port on the 240 head which could be removed. Another option if a person really wanted to make a high flowing std port head would be to start with a 270 and fill in the bottom of the ports.

If Trick Flow wanted to they could build a killer std port head by putting a standard port runner in the 270 casting. I've mocked this up and it would work. The intake manifold would be moved up a little bit but everything else works right out of the box. Stock valvetrain fits, etc.

I'm not sure the world needs a 750 hp pump gas head but if it does, TF could make it without much work.

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#2404019 - 11/15/17 01:26 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: AndyF]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9496
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
If I remember right (I think it's in the archives) Dwayne said the chapmans picked up a TON with a tube, something close to 300 cfm....So compare Apples to apples. He said he was suprised because he didn't originally think they would.

I have the Max Wedge 285cc port Chapmans but I'm 99.9% certain the exhaust is the same as the 260's.

As for the custom parts? Well you need a set of Race W2 style Rocker stands (arguably well worth it for rigidity anyway) and I used the Hughes (I think they were .585(?) can't remember) offset rocker for the Victor and only needed to relieve the outside of the runner castings a tad, about 30 minutes for all 8 with a carbide. Nothing else fancy and I bought a set of nice light stem 2.25"/1.81" Ferreas for the bare castings. I didn't really see them as that impractical considering there was really nothing other than the -1's on the market to compare back then, and they needed 'tweaks' to like external oiling and custom offset rocker as well. The nice thing is for low decks (like my 517) any RB MW manifold will bolt right on. If you run strong roller springs the billet stands add a lot of high RPM stability compared to any as-cast-in-head aluminum pedestal. It would cost you a lot in bridgeport machining to retrofit to billets if you wanted to upgrade, that was my reasoning anyway.

So it depends on what you want, for me it was a head that flows 335 at only .500 lift and 360 at only .600 that clinched it for me. I think the 260 actually flowed as well or slightly better below around .350-.400 than the Maxies. I also wanted a wedge head that could pull like a hemi above 6500 rpm, but without having to put a huge cam in it.

I wonder if JohnRR ever used his set of 260's, I know we both sent them to Dwayne for flowbench testing back in like 2004-2005? The real issue is probably finding a set, I wish someone would recast them, but after looking at the 260 side by side numbers....maybe TF used a set for their own R&D??



Edited by Streetwize (11/15/17 01:44 PM)
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#2404060 - 11/15/17 02:41 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: mopar dave]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13333
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By mopar dave
Sorry for asking silly questions, but are these sb or bb heads?

BB, if you hadn't figured it out already.

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#2404061 - 11/15/17 02:45 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: Streetwize]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13333
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
JohnRR sold his 260s many years ago. I looked them over closely when he brought them to Carlisle (2005?), but opted not to purchase them.

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#2404063 - 11/15/17 02:46 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: BradH]
Streetwize Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 9496
Loc: Weddington, N.C.
Wish I has known I would have liked to have another set
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World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

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#2404168 - 11/15/17 05:18 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: Streetwize]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13333
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Streetwize
Wish I has known I would have liked to have another set

I had to think a loooong time about whether or not to buy John's 260s. I really wanted them, but what I estimated the "all in" cost was going to be to upgrade from my old Stage VI setup scared me off.

A few years later I came across another set, but for more $$$ than what John was asking for his. It started the whooooole process over again in my head and, once again, the total cost to make the switch was higher than I was willing to pony up.

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#2404178 - 11/15/17 05:24 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
AndyF Online   content
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23237
Loc: Oregon
Unless a person can actually buy the Chapman heads the thread is sort of a Godzilla vs. King Kong type of debate.

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#2404190 - 11/15/17 05:48 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
krautrock Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 1476
Loc: central texas
there is (or was) a set listed over at "for a bodies only"...

EDIT: went on over to grab a link. some decent photos.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/thre...r-heads.393940/


Edited by krautrock (11/15/17 05:51 PM)

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#2404250 - 11/15/17 07:38 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
AndyF Online   content
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23237
Loc: Oregon
Those are nice heads but I wouldn't pay $3000 for them. Trick Flow 240 heads are $2000 at Summit. Sure you can make more power with the Chapman heads but I made 700 hp with a pump gas 470 using out of the box 240 heads.

Just have to ask yourself how fast you want to go and how much money do you want to spend...........

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#2404375 - 11/16/17 12:40 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: AndyF]
Rob C Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 686
Loc: Earth
I agree. If the MP VI’s was a bit cheaper ($1,000) you could possibly OK it in (perhaps) better performance and power. The rocker gear is the deal killer (street/stripper car) in a cost vs performance arena. Even if the heads were at TF prices. The VI’s are really nice though.

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#2404387 - 11/16/17 01:22 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 10147
Loc: Great Neck,LI,new york
More flow numbers than you need to know BBM is about 1/2 way down.

http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/srweiss/tablehdc.htm
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#2404421 - 11/16/17 07:55 AM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: BradH]
mopar dave Offline
master

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 5237
Loc: flint michigan
Yeah. Thanks. Didnt know chapman made bb heads.

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#2405938 - 11/19/17 12:03 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: mopar dave]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13333
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By mopar dave
Yeah. Thanks. Didnt know chapman made bb heads.

For a very short time back around 2003-2004, IIRC. Very nice, but hideously expensive.

I'm happy with my standard-port Victors now that all the dust has settled from my multiple cylinder head purchases & sales since then.

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#2405998 - 11/19/17 02:43 PM Re: Chapman Stage VI vs Trick Flow 240s [Re: DGS]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10333
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
If I were looking for a std port head with more flow than the TF 240 for myself, I'd probably use some Indy SR's.
I like the Indy external top end oiling, the raised intake port/valley plate arrangement, and the ability to use non-offset rockers.

Without Herculean porting efforts, they can flow in the 340's at std port window size.
It requires full porting to get there, but nothing really crazy.

If the std port Victors didn't come with the bowls cast so ridiculously small, I think they might sell more of them.
I like the Indy valley plate arrangement better than the victor plate too.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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