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#2403818 - 11/14/17 10:57 PM So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car?
grancuda Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 706
Loc: Central US
So in today's car hobby, what is a Survivor Car?

All Original Paint?
Numbers matching?
Never been disassembled?
All Original interior?
Cleared over patina'd paint?
Cleared over layers of barnfind dust?
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1967 Barracuda Formula S 383
1969 Dart Custom 2dr HT 440
1972 D1oo SWB 360
1980 Macho Power Wagon LWB 318
2010 Ford Raptor 6.2L
2014 Challenger R/T Shaker #0488

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#2403837 - 11/14/17 11:48 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
dart4forte Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 13807
Loc: Mesa, Arizona
popcorn

Opinions on this will vary to the n'th degree.

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#2403845 - 11/15/17 12:32 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
AndyF Online   content
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23237
Loc: Oregon
Here is my survivor. Original paint and still has the Fikse rims that were bolted on at the factory. Even the air in the tires is original.


Attachments
DSC_1169 (Large).JPG



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#2403850 - 11/15/17 12:54 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
Hemi_Joel Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5316
Loc: Minnesota
what is a Survivor Car? In my opinion:

All Original Paint? 75% or more original paint
Numbers matching? Yes
Never been disassembled? Some dissasembly ok, for repairs and cleaning. But not for restoration.
All Original interior? 90%
Cleared over patina'd paint? for sure not!
Cleared over layers of barnfind dust? Arrrgh!

To be called a survivor, I think all areas of the car (exterior, engine bay, trunk, bottom) should have their original surface finishes, (or lack thereof, if that's how it was built) With only touch-up work. Upolstry should be original with some repair OK, and replacement of a panel or 2 with good used.
Mechanical part should be original, with the exception of normal stuff that deteriorates with time like tires, belts, hoses and plug wires. Maybe a starter or alternator.

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#2403857 - 11/15/17 01:27 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: dart4forte]
A12 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17462
Loc: N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted By dart4forte
popcorn

Opinions on this will vary to the n'th degree.



IMO survivors are cars that most likely were never driven and if they were then again most likely driven less than 30,000 miles. I can't see how a car could be driven and not need paint if driven if driven in the rain and rust belt or an interior if the car is from the South or Southwest.

Here's my Southwest/West Texas '69 GTX 4-speed that had 93k on the odo in 2010 with the interior (dash, front bucket seats) dry rotted and cracked with faded paint. Still had a 1969 Texas plate on it and the shift pattern on the shift ball worn away. I still have that shifter ball on it with close to 100,000 miles on the odo now. New paint, new dash pad, new front seat covers and carpet, engine cleaned up now so it lost its "survivor" status but there is no way I would have left it like I bought it from the second owner that never titled it from the original owner. All matching numbers and all original sheet metal, bumpers, radiator, console, etc., but because I painted it and changed some interior pieces it is no longer a survivor. So low mileage, garage kept trailer queens get the title "survivor", and the owners never got the chance to enjoy them for what they were meant for. drive

Should I have kept it a survivor?


Attachments
DSC03168.JPG

a2_1.jpg

69 GTX 001.jpg

GTX Y2 4SPD 69 0001 copy.jpg




Edited by A12 (11/15/17 01:31 AM)

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#2403861 - 11/15/17 02:39 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8427
Loc: Trumpitvile
How old does it have to be?
Certainly many cars up to about 20 years old may fit the criteria.
I imagine the first qualifier should be a minimum age.
Then, there is the entire factory original vs. day two thing. I like to see cars that are preserved as they were modified.
I've heard some use the term vintage, although I feel that term is abused a'la "vintage" signs, etc made in china.

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#2404107 - 11/15/17 03:40 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: srt]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18838
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
You're all wrong, Bloomington Gold trademarked the term "survivor", so if anybody who claims to have a survivor that has not been certified by their judges, that is a federal trademark violation.

Don't shoot the messenger.
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#2404131 - 11/15/17 04:18 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: John_Kunkel]
RoadRunnerLuva Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 2320
Loc: The Great Lakes State
When I think of a "survivor" vehicle, I see a car/truck at least minimum
of 30 years old, has at least 85% factory original paint still on it.
Also, driveline has to be original, with normal "wear items" replaced as needed. Interior should be untouched in decent shape. Mileage to me, isn't
a big deal, if the vehicle has been kept in good shape, and taken care of,then miles are of no concern. They were built to be driven in the first place. Besides, driving them, is the best way to keep them alive. twocents
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"It comes down to a simple choice...get busy living or get busy dying"....

1973 Dodge Charger SE Brougham...400 CI
1972 Plymouth Duster...418 CI Stroker

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#2404132 - 11/15/17 04:18 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
Orange_Crush Offline
Belieber!

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 17686
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted By grancuda
So in today's car hobby, what is a Survivor Car?

All Original Paint?
Numbers matching?
Never been disassembled?
All Original interior?
Cleared over patina'd paint?
Cleared over layers of barnfind dust?


By Mopar definition, a Survivor is any car that is in the same condition in which it left the factory, except for maintenance items and, possibly, mild day 2 stuff like rims.

By Corvette definition,a survivor is any car that retains one factory valve cover.
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1970 Dodge Charger R/T Hemi Orange U-code 4-speed
1971 Jaguar E-Type Series 3 V-12 4-speed 2+2 Signal Red.

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#2404205 - 11/15/17 06:33 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
BSB67 Offline
master

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 3368
Loc: Prospect, PA
Is there any significance to being or owning a "survivor" car?
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500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes 4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter 11.68 @ 120.2 mph

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#2404239 - 11/15/17 07:28 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
flypaper Offline
I hate Texas

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 18413
Loc: jersey shore
it has been so misused
there is no such thing anymore..
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siggy was removed because of the morally corrupt mental midget LIAR from portland or!
I appreciate it!


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#2404322 - 11/15/17 09:41 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
Moparnutcase Offline
mopar

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 479
Loc: New Jersey
My '77 Cordoba is basically an "original" survivor. Has just over 12,300 miles,100% as it left the factory body,paint,trim,and interior along with all hoses and belts. When I purchased it was still using the original fuel filter(since changed). The only items on the car that it did not leave the assembly line with are....the fuel and air filters,spark plugs,tires,battery,and heater core(NOS replacement). I prefer a clean basically all original car over a restored one any day. Like they say, you can restore it a hundred times, it's only original ONCE.
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1965 Dodge Monaco 426W w/4speed
1977 Chrysler Cordoba 400-4brl,T-tops,triple blue,one family owned until my purchase,under 11,300 miles as of 10/20/2016
2012 Dodge Durango Crew AWD (wifey)
2017 Dodge Ram 1500 QC 4x4
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (daughter)

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#2404406 - 11/16/17 05:28 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: Moparnutcase]
bboogieart Offline
master

Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 3332
Loc: Lost and Spaced
The above post is, in my opinion, the best definition.
I would consider anything that has not been modified or restored, only wear items replaced and is still in driving condition.
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I can screw up anything.

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#2404452 - 11/16/17 09:42 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
EV2Bird Online   work
On Vacation

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 2827
Loc: Kansas Roads Between 0 and 140...
I myself find it odd that many throw out % numbers for paint and interior, I think its a huge stretch and the only consideration should be for instance might be a hurt door or fender from an accident that was repaired in a timely manor during the cars life and not saying Joel is incorrect but to allow 25% of a cars paint to be worked over for simple cosmetic reasons dont fit imo.

I see these % numbers being layed out by the masses to fit more cars into the "survivor" category.

In 1985 these numbers wouldnt wash, so I ask will the standards change in 20 years? Will 50% org. paint be the norm?

Just like the NFL, Roger G makes rules because hes in the mix, so he is biased, in the car world people in the mix make the rules considering what "survivor" means which I think is also biased.

Id like to see 100 people who understand history, preservation, ect, polled one what they consider what a survivor is vs what we in the car world make it out to be to fit our needs and our wallets.

I think there are very few true survivors in the car world of any brand and the partially cosmetically perfumed cars is the reason we are discussing this now.

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#2404459 - 11/16/17 10:10 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
SomeCarGuy Offline
master

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 8166
Loc: Someplace you aren't
If the car is still in one piece, or maybe a thousand, it’s still around so therefore it survived.
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Forever in debt to your priceless advice...

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#2404484 - 11/16/17 11:05 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8427
Loc: Trumpitvile
I can see over time that attaching the word survivor to a standard will not work. Let the chevy people have fun with that.
Look what is important in verifying a vehicle:
Original metal
Original Glass
Original Mechanicals
Original attachments (wheels, seat frames, electrical, starting, induction, and associated containing date codes).
To me (most of) the rest are wear items and do not affect a cars heritage.
Perhaps the better word is heritage. Maybe I should trademark that?

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#2404490 - 11/16/17 11:27 AM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: srt]
ChryCoGuy Offline
master

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 5269
Loc: Canada
It's the same thing that often happens when we attach a label to describe some concept - it will be interpreted, and then interpreted based on that interpretation, then interpreted based on the interpretation of the interpretation, and so on...

Then those skewed interpretations will be used as a positive to sell or describe someone's car... and then the arguments start.

I always tend to take terms like "restored", "survivor", "mint", "no rust", etc. with a grain of salt, as they mean different things to different people.

For example, to me, "no rust" means that it has all the original sheet metal that was installed at the factory and it has never been rusted or repaired. To others, it may mean that they have cut out the rusty floor pans and welded new ones in, or all the rust holes have been filled in with fibreglass and bondo...

These days I try not to get caught up in semantics. twocents

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#2404554 - 11/16/17 02:51 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
srt Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 8427
Loc: Trumpitvile
I agree with you especially on the metal. I've not been a fan of "originals" having huge grafts of used, oem or repro metal. I also feel that "labelling" encourages scrutiny that should be reserved for eyes on.
Owning a car that was produced early in production I know the pain of looking for parts that were removed (wheels, dist, ex manifolds) to make the car correct. Being a "survivor" won't be it's fate even though it's original mechanicals, metal and paint. I was very recently fortunate to have purchased another vehicle that would fit the "survivor" label. It attracted me solely because it retained all factory components, including 1970 CA smog equipment.
Lastly, I think the survivor label tends to be abused as some parts married to a car to make it oem would preclude it.

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#2404558 - 11/16/17 02:59 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: grancuda]
Neil Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12064
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
Originally Posted By grancuda
So in today's car hobby, what is a Survivor Car?

All Original Paint? Yes, or close to it. Paint needs to be somewhat presentable and shiny. Stone chips and scratches are ok. Big dents or large rust holes and your out.

Numbers matching? Yes

Never been disassembled? Ok for maintenance purposes

All Original interior? Yes. Repaired seats or new carpet to replace trashed original carpet is ok.

Cleared over patina'd paint? No clear coating

Cleared over layers of barnfind dust? Seriously, do people do this? confused

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#2404616 - 11/16/17 05:51 PM Re: So, what is the latest definition of a Survivor Car? [Re: SomeCarGuy]
A12 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 17462
Loc: N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted By SomeCarGuy
If the car is still in one piece, or maybe a thousand, it’s still around so therefore it survived.


Best description yet. When I first heard the term "survivor" I remember thinking it was called that because "it didn't get sent to the crusher even if it had been in an accident or rusted away to almost nothing and someone got it running and driving again. No matter what condition or percentage of original paint left it SURVIVED and is still with us today. Why are we defining a survivor with things like percentage of original parts or paint. There are many people that are medical SURVIVORS that are missing a few ORIGINAL body parts, should we not call them survivors or put them into a category of their remaining original parts? wink

MikeR

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