Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Morty426]
#2402349
11/12/17 02:39 AM
11/12/17 02:39 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38 Western US
Furious440
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Western US
|
That's my understanding too from what I read in the 1971 parts catalog and chassis manual. I am replacing the fuel sender, sock, four rubber hoses and ground strap. However, many have encouraged me to put a universal 5/16" filter between the tank and pump. I guess as an extra ounce of prevention to protect a restored carburetor. Does anyone else do this? Why did they not use a filter on the B/RB cars when they did on the small V-8 & slant six cars?
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2402681
11/12/17 07:36 PM
11/12/17 07:36 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38 Western US
Furious440
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Western US
|
Okay... So I bought a reproduction vapor separator off ebay. The nipple on it that goes to the vent hose appears to be the correct size. It has a very tiny opening as well. I have not measures it yet. Do I need to worry about the orifice???
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2403730
11/14/17 10:34 PM
11/14/17 10:34 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 356 Greenwood Lake, NY
fuelishnsilly
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 356
Greenwood Lake, NY
|
I don't know if the 71 style is the same as the 69 or not but I put one on my roadrunner and I ended up soldering up the return line fitting and then hand drilled the fitting back open to the correct opening size.
inherited a 69 roadrunner from my grand pop.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2403849
11/15/17 03:53 AM
11/15/17 03:53 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
|
The opening of the nipple to the vapor return line on my reproduction separator is 1/16".
Is this OK? Well 1/16 is .0625 so it should work fine as the factory hole was about .060. Ron
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2404587
11/16/17 07:36 PM
11/16/17 07:36 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 267 New Jersey
69Chrgr
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 267
New Jersey
|
I thought Franks had the screen, and the correct hole? I bought one from him for my 69 440 thinking it was, its already installed. I broke the cam in on a run stand, so I wouldn't have seen any problems from the hole being too large yet.
Duane
Last edited by 69Chrgr; 11/16/17 07:36 PM.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2404714
11/16/17 11:55 PM
11/16/17 11:55 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38 Western US
Furious440
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Western US
|
Thank you every body for your input. I guess I will know if there is a problem after I run the motor. The tattle tale I assume will be raw fuel exiting the vapor return nipple. Were these ever available in the auto parts stores or were they just dealer only???
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: biggE]
#2404897
11/17/17 11:39 AM
11/17/17 11:39 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 267 New Jersey
69Chrgr
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 267
New Jersey
|
On ebay JS Brown or 521 Restorations sells the one that will work. His listing has a diagram of the separator. There are ones being sold that the vapor return size hole is to large and this allows gas to run back to the tank instead of vapor. I do know people that block the tube off which does eliminate the issue on the bad ones. They are suppose to be a return line, the system is suppose to work so that if you return fuel from a .060 line, it wont stay stagnant,heat up and vapor lock. when the extra supply is needed at the carb, it is easier to travel thru a 3/8 line than a .060, once the needle closes or cycles, it becomes a return line again. same as a modern fuel system. if the hole is too big, it will starve the carb. Duane
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2405864
11/19/17 11:20 AM
11/19/17 11:20 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,388 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,388
Abilene, Texas
|
I bought some from rock auto and the return line hole is too big. I was going to modify them and make the hole to match my NOS one. I use a filter before the pump anyway. They were cheap. I bought one from year one and installed it before I checked the hole. I bet it is too big as well.
Last edited by fastmark; 11/19/17 11:21 AM.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2411839
12/01/17 04:14 PM
12/01/17 04:14 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 954 Chicago
PurpleBeeper
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Chicago
|
Sorry to Hijack, but I have a related question. I'm running a 440 six pack that does suffer from vapor lock issues. I have an electric blue Holley pump regulated to 6psi.
I was thinking about using the stock fuel line as my return. Since I'm not running a mechanical pump at all, will adding the vapor separator (with .060" hole) help me???
70 Roadrunner convt. street car
440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs
'96 Mustang GT convt. street car
'04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered
"Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: gygeneral]
#2412196
12/02/17 12:42 PM
12/02/17 12:42 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,674 California
biggE
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,674
California
|
After reading this post I decided to check mine as I've always had issues starting the car after sitting after a period of time. I actually had to put fuel directly into the fuel bowl for it to start. Heres the pic of the return line, full hole, maybe this is my issue. When I disconnected the hose it was full of fuel. There should be zero fuel in the return line. The other issue that I believe is with the fuel separator that you have is that the tube length in the unit is to short. Either way I would replace it.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: biggE]
#2412321
12/02/17 06:13 PM
12/02/17 06:13 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,053 Ont, Canada
gygeneral
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,053
Ont, Canada
|
There should be zero fuel in the return line. The other issue that I believe is with the fuel separator that you have is that the tube length in the unit is to short. Either way I would replace it. I ordered a new one from Frank B.. I'm going to open this old one up and look inside when I remove it from the car.
Last edited by gygeneral; 12/02/17 06:14 PM.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: gygeneral]
#2412736
12/03/17 06:03 PM
12/03/17 06:03 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315 Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
|
After reading this post I decided to check mine as I've always had issues starting the car after sitting after a period of time. I actually had to put fuel directly into the fuel bowl for it to start. Heres the pic of the return line, full hole, maybe this is my issue. When I disconnected the hose it was full of fuel. There were many bogus separators in the marketplace. Besides the return line having no orifice, there was no screen inside and the tubes were the incorrect length!!!! This is one I bought for my 6bbl - junk. Your return tube looks like mine - with no orifice, so I suspect it is a bogus one. Jim
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto 1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto 1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible 2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Furious440]
#2413527
12/05/17 12:50 PM
12/05/17 12:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,388 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,388
Abilene, Texas
|
I’m not an expert but I have my oem one from my Superbird that I have measured and compared to two ones that I have bought. The first was from Year One and had the big (.115 ) hole in the return line. Using a wire with a hook on it, I determined that all three units had the exact same length tubes as my oem. The other unit I bought had the proper size hole as the oem one did. It was not made as clean but it was .060. I’m not sure if it has the screen or not. I bought three of them and just used one on my Charger to replace the new and wrong Year One piece. I’ll see if I can find where I bought these three from. I’ll try and post a picture as well.
Last edited by fastmark; 12/05/17 12:55 PM.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: 68jim]
#2413942
12/06/17 12:02 AM
12/06/17 12:02 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315 Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
|
You may find that even the .060" hole can be too big. I discovered on my engine that the larger hole allowed a 2+ psi drop on the fuel pressure measured at the carbs. I soldered the hole closed and drilled it out to .030". My pressure loss was now less than 1 psi and still large enough to pass any vapor and fuel back to the tank. Zero issues even in 95+ degree heat. I agree- 0.060" is too large. I soldered mine and drilled with a 0.040" drill.
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto 1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto 1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible 2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#2414610
12/07/17 11:27 AM
12/07/17 11:27 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,053 Ont, Canada
gygeneral
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,053
Ont, Canada
|
It's there to prevent vapor lock, but also, if you plugged it up, it could cause the fuel pressure to get to high. what about the cars that only have a fuel filter, how do they get away with no return line. I guess it must be vented somewhere then?
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: biggE]
#2443699
01/30/18 10:34 PM
01/30/18 10:34 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180 upstate western ny
sogtx
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180
upstate western ny
|
After reading this post I decided to check mine as I've always had issues starting the car after sitting after a period of time. I actually had to put fuel directly into the fuel bowl for it to start. Heres the pic of the return line, full hole, maybe this is my issue. When I disconnected the hose it was full of fuel. There should be zero fuel in the return line. The other issue that I believe is with the fuel separator that you have is that the tube length in the unit is to short. Either way I would replace it. I disagree
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: sogtx]
#2444455
02/01/18 02:47 AM
02/01/18 02:47 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
|
After reading this post I decided to check mine as I've always had issues starting the car after sitting after a period of time. I actually had to put fuel directly into the fuel bowl for it to start. Heres the pic of the return line, full hole, maybe this is my issue. When I disconnected the hose it was full of fuel. There should be zero fuel in the return line. The other issue that I believe is with the fuel separator that you have is that the tube length in the unit is to short. Either way I would replace it. I disagree Yeah E that's not right. It's a fuel return line.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: Morty426]
#2444935
02/01/18 11:34 PM
02/01/18 11:34 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,674 California
biggE
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,674
California
|
I disagree [/quote]
Yeah E that's not right. It's a fuel return line. [/quote] It's actually a vapor return line. Fuel can run through the line but if there's fuel in it something is likely wrong like a blocked fuel line or clogged separator.
Last edited by biggE; 02/01/18 11:48 PM.
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: biggE]
#2445400
02/02/18 10:29 PM
02/02/18 10:29 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315 Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
|
Yeah E that's not right. It's a fuel return line. [/quote] It's actually a vapor return line. Fuel can run through the line but if there's fuel in it something is likely wrong like a blocked fuel line or clogged separator. [/quote] You are both right! If vapour accumulates in the top of the separator, then it will flow into the return line. If there is no vapour, the fuel will flow into the return line and the flow is restricted by the orifice. I bought a repro for my 440-6 bbl and could not get the engine to start. Found out it was a knockoff and there was no orifice in the return line. All the fuel was going straight back to the tank!!
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto 1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto 1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible 2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
|
|
|
Re: '71 440 HP VAPOR SEPARATOR experts please!
[Re: racerlall]
#2486745
04/23/18 10:42 AM
04/23/18 10:42 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,053 Ont, Canada
gygeneral
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,053
Ont, Canada
|
That was a neat video. Enjoyed that. Well mine had no orifice so I installed a new reproduction. In a month or so I will see if it made a difference. Mine was also very hard to start.
|
|
|
|
|