Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
#2401172
11/09/17 10:51 PM
11/09/17 10:51 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
70 Road runner, stock 11" drums. Front left continually adjusts looser over time, and fairly quickly. I set it so there is enough drag to get about a turn when I spin the tire, and w/in 20-30 miles it's loose again. More than about 100 miles and it's dangerous, that side is so loose that when I hit the brakes it pulls sharply to the right. Adjust it out and everything is ok.
I just had it apart, and confirmed it is a left hand adjuster. I double checked that everything is connected correctly, and took a pry bar and moved the rear shoe back at the top, and it did click the adjustor. I double checked that it is going in the right direction, i.e. when the adjuster is turned, it is expanding and not contracting.
Had a mopar friend take a look, and he saw nothing wrong either.
What could be causing this?
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2401177
11/09/17 11:03 PM
11/09/17 11:03 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
|
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
|
Is the spring laying against the star so the star doesn't turn from vibration?
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2401186
11/09/17 11:20 PM
11/09/17 11:20 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
Best picture I have of the layout from the FSM
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: amxautox]
#2401192
11/09/17 11:34 PM
11/09/17 11:34 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
Is the spring laying against the star so the star doesn't turn from vibration? that is what I would confirm & compare the tang/teeth etc on the adjuster assy on both sides to see if they are identical (other than the mirror images/different twist on the threads). The tang somehow has to be improperly allowing the star wheel teeth to vibrate/move for it to be loosening.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2401392
11/10/17 02:14 PM
11/10/17 02:14 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
|
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
|
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: amxautox]
#2401399
11/10/17 02:43 PM
11/10/17 02:43 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,133 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,133
Mesa, Arizona
|
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums. Sounds like the adjuster is backakwards
Last edited by dart4forte; 11/10/17 02:44 PM.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: dart4forte]
#2401426
11/10/17 03:43 PM
11/10/17 03:43 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums. Sounds like the adjuster is backakwards I won't be able to get pictures until this weekend, but I 1) made sure this was a left side adjustor, 2) matched the position of all the components with the diagram in the FSM, 3) turned the adjuster by hand to make sure it was going in the right direction, and 4) then pried the rear shoe away from the perch, and it did move the adjustor, which I once again verified was the correct direction. doesn't mean I didn't miss something, but I think all of that is good.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: dart4forte]
#2401464
11/10/17 05:03 PM
11/10/17 05:03 PM
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,820 South Bend
John Brown
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,820
South Bend
|
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums. Sounds like the adjuster is backakwards Or swapped side for side.....
July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2401491
11/10/17 05:52 PM
11/10/17 05:52 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
|
You are aware that the self-adjusters only work when the brakes are firmly applied when backing up?
Lots of folks shift to Drive after backing up and seldom/never use the brakes.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2401500
11/10/17 06:10 PM
11/10/17 06:10 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
You are aware that the self-adjusters only work when the brakes are firmly applied when backing up?
Lots of folks shift to Drive after backing up and seldom/never use the brakes. Yes, that's why I pried the rear shoe away from the top mount. And as mentioned, it worked as expected.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2401716
11/11/17 01:30 AM
11/11/17 01:30 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 954 garnett kansas
rhad
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 954
garnett kansas
|
does the spring set down tight against the star wheel?
my ladder of success is missing some rungs
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: rhad]
#2401875
11/11/17 01:21 PM
11/11/17 01:21 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
if nothing appears bent/out of place/not working/wrong parts you might pull the drum & have a helper work the pedal BARELY so the shoes expand a slight bit then let off & repeat & see if the star wheel starts expanding the shoes. work with him so he goes just far enough for the tang to catch the next tooth. Holler what it ends up being.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401912
11/11/17 02:39 PM
11/11/17 02:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon
minivan
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
|
if nothing appears bent/out of place/not working/wrong parts you might pull the drum & have a helper work the pedal BARELY so the shoes expand a slight bit then let off & repeat & see if the star wheel starts expanding the shoes. work with him so he goes just far enough for the tang to catch the next tooth. Holler what it ends up being. Keyword here is BARELY, unless you want brake cylinder pistons all over your shop... Did some stupid things when I was young.... LOL
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2402069
11/11/17 07:32 PM
11/11/17 07:32 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
|
You are aware that the self-adjusters only work when the brakes are firmly applied when backing up?
Lots of folks shift to Drive after backing up and seldom/never use the brakes. Yes, that's why I pried the rear shoe away from the top mount. And as mentioned, it worked as expected. Yeah, but is the driver actually using the brakes to stop when backing up?
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2402073
11/11/17 07:39 PM
11/11/17 07:39 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
|
Might be hunting up the wrong tree. If the right brake seems to grab hard, then maybe the left brake isn't grabbing at all. Why? Initial adjustment plays a role, but not to extent described. 20-30 miles is not normally far enough to have made a difference in the shoe lining thickness. Normally - if you're coming down Mt Washington at a clip, wear will be higher. :lol: If the shoes aren't grabbing, then the self-adjusters won't move. On the '69 up adjusters, adjusters are actuated in reverse as the secondary shoes grab . Based on what's posted so far, I'd see if the left wheel cylinder can be bled and if the wheel cyl pistons both move free. Also, review Chrysler's drum brake advice to techs http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/204/Page01.htmand '69 http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/260/Cover.htm
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2412934
12/04/17 02:58 AM
12/04/17 02:58 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 954 garnett kansas
rhad
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 954
garnett kansas
|
is the drivers side adjuster left hand thread?,if not thats your problem
my ladder of success is missing some rungs
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: rhad]
#2412959
12/04/17 06:05 AM
12/04/17 06:05 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
|
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
|
Yes it's left hand thread, you can see that in the picture. And yes I checked when I saw the picture.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2412962
12/04/17 06:49 AM
12/04/17 06:49 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
|
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
|
because he just said in reply number #2412931 at 8:44pm; So as I'm taking the whole front end apart to drop the k frame,
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: amxautox]
#2412986
12/04/17 11:01 AM
12/04/17 11:01 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
because he just said in reply number #2412931 at 8:44pm; So as I'm taking the whole front end apart to drop the k frame, No need to remove those bolts though
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2413032
12/04/17 01:07 PM
12/04/17 01:07 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,397 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,397
It's a dry heat
|
Yep- that threw me - I read his post but no reason to take the backing plates loose - Ive done it that way several times over the years. Much easier to do it this way than break the ball joint loose. ( aka no pitchfork tool or BFH required to break the ball joint loose. ) This way the lower ball joint and associated suspension components come out the with the K frame / lower control arms / tie rod ends intact.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: gtx6970]
#2413083
12/04/17 03:00 PM
12/04/17 03:00 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
|
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
|
And he doesn't have to break lose the brake lines and have to bleed the brakes. Different ways to get the job done.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: floridian]
#2413130
12/04/17 04:25 PM
12/04/17 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
First pic looks like you have the shoes mixed up.. Isnt the longer shoe supposed to go on the back?? I'll double check, but I think the shoes are on correctly.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: gtx6970]
#2413131
12/04/17 04:25 PM
12/04/17 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
|
Yep- that threw me - I read his post but no reason to take the backing plates loose - Ive done it that way several times over the years. Much easier to do it this way than break the ball joint loose. ( aka no pitchfork tool or BFH required to break the ball joint loose. ) This way the lower ball joint and associated suspension components come out the with the K frame / lower control arms / tie rod ends intact. Yes, that was the plan...
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: amxautox]
#2413136
12/04/17 04:32 PM
12/04/17 04:32 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
And he doesn't have to break lose the brake lines and have to bleed the brakes. Different ways to get the job done. Is there enough slack in the brake hose to slide the drum backing plate off the spindle?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2413141
12/04/17 04:39 PM
12/04/17 04:39 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649 On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
|
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
|
And he doesn't have to break lose the brake lines and have to bleed the brakes. Different ways to get the job done. Is there enough slack in the brake hose to slide the drum backing plate off the spindle? Might be. If he lifts the arms and spindle up all the way, then it's very possible.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2414271
12/06/17 04:41 PM
12/06/17 04:41 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
The member whose name is actually Art
|
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
|
Yes, back the brake problem... when I hit the brakes it pulls sharply to the right. Adjust it out and everything is ok.
What could be causing this? It is super frustrating for such a simple set up to go wrong, isn't it? You are sure the driver's shoes aren't wearing down prematurely, right? Does the car pull left when shoes are adjusted manually? Otherwise the car pulling to the side when the shoes wear down for lack of adjustment, could be hydraulic pressure isn't split equally... but you'd have pulling to the left after adjustment.. .. so, OK my gut agrees the problem is in the adjuster system. (to explain - I had a persistent "unequal braking" problem at my rear brakes a few years ago - the adjuster setup looked dead perfect, so I kept thinking it was hydraulic pressure sending unequal brake force to the rears. End of story was I found a very small discrepancy in the actuator arm's position that didn't let it engage the star wheel properly - it was the cable's eye loop at the TOP of the brake drum resulted in a shorter cable length. Problem solved). Going back to something very basic: I'd remove the rear brake drums which are working FINE (are they wearing equally?) and compare the fronts to the rears.... compare orientation of brake shoes, star wheel, cables, springs, everything.. my gut tells me something very minor isn't right and you have to find it by careful observation of something that DOES WORK right.. Do you have any Mopar buddies with '70 B-body? My '67 and '65 are just a bit different than yours. Cheers, - Art
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 12/06/17 04:42 PM.
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2414339
12/06/17 07:09 PM
12/06/17 07:09 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
|
Ages ago I removed all the self adjusters on my Barracuda. The brakes seldom needed adjusting and when they did it was minute and consistent across all of them. This would have been 1994ish and at the time I think wagner had a kit to get rid of the adjusters, came with some springs and maybe an adjuster?
I have since moved to disc brakes on the front and soon the rear.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: AARCONV]
#2414571
12/07/17 03:42 AM
12/07/17 03:42 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
I'd toss the self adjuster stuff & elim the problem (most self adjuster setups dont work good anyhow). You pretty much just need a horizontle spring from shoe web to web to go over the star wheel & bears down on it. adj em till you hear a slight "tick" at one point in the tires' revolution. Up on stands spin the fronts forward by hand & the rears idling in drive (have a helper hit the pedal to stop em & you spoon em up a bit then he lets off & repeat till you hear that slight "tick").
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2414698
12/07/17 02:31 PM
12/07/17 02:31 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
|
check brake drum max diameters
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
|
|
|
Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
[Re: mickm]
#2414720
12/07/17 03:08 PM
12/07/17 03:08 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,764 ohio
ruderunner
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,764
ohio
|
Is it really in adjusting or are the shoes just seating in. I'd like to see the wear pattern on the shoes themselves.
Angry white pureblood male
|
|
|
|
|