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#2400459 - 11/08/17 10:25 AM are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
RapidRobert Offline
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Registered: 11/20/03
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Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
My lifter bores are worn & leaking profusely (oil psi gauge on oil sender boss is oscillating wildly from 20 to 5 psi) during breakin after about 5 minutes so I shut it down but until then it was ~40 & fairly steady. the bores were loose on assembly so I shoulda dealt with it then or found another block. Someone mentioned olds 425 lifters will work but are .921" so either the lifter bores would need to be bored or the lifters' OD reduced if that is even possible but it would be nice to resolve this (if possible) without a teardown. thank you for your time. PS I was thinking Ma had .001 OS lifters at one point in time.
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#2400476 - 11/08/17 10:48 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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Chrysler years ago sold them. Some of the bores may be too big from the factory and not worn. Maybe a call to one of the lifter manufacturers would be a idea and see if there any options. Maybe try calling or emailing http://johnsonlifters.com/ What brand lifters did you use?

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#2400487 - 11/08/17 11:10 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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I'd like to myself get overbored lifter instead use bushings! I'm tired of get tapping noise at the first crank up everyday ( well when my car was in one piece LOL ). True I'm using thicker valve springs. Running johnson lifters


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#2400491 - 11/08/17 11:16 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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https://www.cjmotorparts.com/nos-mopar-parts-inventory.html show they have 3549990 14 nos lifters .001
Collectors auto supply is suppose to have some too.
The part number I came up with is 3549990 for 318 and 3004644 for 360. I can only think they supersede in some way as the standard lifter part number was the same.

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#2400525 - 11/08/17 12:21 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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BTW, They were listed in .008 and .030 too but none showed up on partsvoice.

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#2400540 - 11/08/17 12:38 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
carteravs Offline
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If there is 1 or more .008 O/S lifter bores, there is supposed to be a diamond shaped stamp on the i.d. pad. Typically, a standard size lifter in an .008 o/s bore will wipe the cam in pretty short order. I'm not saying yours aren't too big, but a few extra thousandths will pass a lot of oil. You can do quite a bit of damage with a brake cylinder hone pretty quickly.

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#2400542 - 11/08/17 12:42 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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I have heard of the diamond stamping before but I didn`t know it was for the .008 bores. Thanks for the info.

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#2400543 - 11/08/17 12:43 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: mopars4ever]
dogdays Offline
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I seem to remember the shop price for straightening and bushing 16 lifter bores at about $800. Most commonly used is the BHJ Lifter-Tru. Here's the page out of the BHJ catalog:

http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_downloads/catalog/lo_res/BHJ_08Catalog_p10-11.pdf

The sleeve is 1.000" OD May not be a lot of support for the bores. I guess it depends a lot on the aggressiveness of the cam lobes.

Not all Oldsmobiles had 0.921 lifters, in actuality the majority have 0.842 Chevy diameter. The conundrum for Olds guys is there were also two lifter bank angles, 39 and 45 degrees. That makes four combinations and I believe Olds used three of them.
If you really want to get tricky the Olds hydraulic roller lifters used in their Diesel car engines used the 0.921 diameter.

I think the only way to cut the lifter diameter would be by grinding.

Bottom line - if the OS lifters are available buy them. If they're not available, get a different block.

R.

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#2400551 - 11/08/17 12:58 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
John_Kunkel Offline
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From a previous thread on this subject:

"You can buy +.008,+.015,+.030 lifters at Hylift Johnson Ph# 1-800-441-1400 ask for Paul"
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#2400626 - 11/08/17 03:34 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: John_Kunkel]
RapidRobert Offline
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collectorsautosupply has em & is checking inventory for me & a price. cjmotorsports has 14 of em for $155 to my door. I left a msg for Paul at Hylift johnson. (all .001 OS). You guys are good. thank you! After finally getting the head gaskets to seal on the leaking head gasket from Hell engine it sure would be nice to deal with this oiling issue without another teardown!
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#2400637 - 11/08/17 03:44 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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From my experience Collectors is going to be much higher price wise.

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#2400698 - 11/08/17 06:11 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: mopars4ever]
RapidRobert Offline
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"Collectors" also shows a listing for 318 and 360 lifters. I thought they were the same?
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#2400725 - 11/08/17 07:20 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
Dave Hall Offline
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I would start by measuring the bores and the lifters and see where you might have some extra clearance. I just don't see .001 creating much of a difference.

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#2400732 - 11/08/17 07:40 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: Dave Hall]
RapidRobert Offline
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Dave, good point EDIT I may have to get the .008 ones & tear it down & hone it but at least the HG issue is resolved so highly likely the 6th fireup will be good. Mr Murphy about got to me on this one.


Edited by RapidRobert (11/08/17 08:12 PM)
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#2400806 - 11/08/17 09:56 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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The mopar part number for the standard lifters were the same for 318 and 360. For some reason they had different numbers for the 318-360 .001 lifters in my 74 parts book. It probably was a superseded number. Other small block standard size lifter mopar part numbers were 3614321 and 4049338 and maybe others.

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#2400931 - 11/09/17 09:15 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: carteravs]
RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I'm not saying yours aren't too big, but a few extra thousandths will pass a lot of oil. You can do quite a bit of damage with a brake cylinder hone pretty quickly.
that is exactly what happened. No diamond stamp. I'm calling: collectors/CJ motorparts/hylift johnson today to price some .008" lifters. Can I hone em out with a brake hone or does it need to go to the shop?
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#2400934 - 11/09/17 09:21 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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Collectors or CJ isn`t going to have the .008. When I checked partsvoice they show no inventory on them. You will have to go aftermarket and try Johnson. here are the part numbers for mopar lifters for reference https://www.marinepartssource.com/chryslerpb/6874-m340-int.asp

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#2400967 - 11/09/17 10:33 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: mopars4ever]
RapidRobert Offline
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^^^ I scrolled down your chart & noted their # (3549991) Thank you!
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#2400984 - 11/09/17 11:17 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
dogdays Offline
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The phone number listed above is for Rurallife magazine, published by the same company that gave us Farm Journal and The Dakota Farmer. How could they be a lifter manufacturer?

R.

Please let us know what you found and where. This question comes up annually.


Edited by dogdays (11/09/17 11:55 AM)

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#2401019 - 11/09/17 12:27 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Quote:
I'm not saying yours aren't too big, but a few extra thousandths will pass a lot of oil. You can do quite a bit of damage with a brake cylinder hone pretty quickly.
that is exactly what happened. No diamond stamp. I'm calling: collectors/CJ motorparts/hylift johnson today to price some .008" lifters. Can I hone em out with a brake hone or does it need to go to the shop?


0.001" for 16 lifters is equal to a .25" dia hole/leak. The 0.001" oversize lifters might make enough of a difference. twocents
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#2401037 - 11/09/17 01:27 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: BSB67]
RapidRobert Offline
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From the "partsvoice" search: #1 3549990 (.001). #2 3004644. #3 3614321. #4 4049338. #5 3549991 (.008"). I ain't sure what the descrip of 2,3 & 4 are. CJ motorsports has (14) of #1 and none of #5. "collectors" has (11) of #1 (4) of #2 (9) of #3 (6) of #4 (0) of #5. Brads NOS parts west columbia south carolina Chrysler has 1 of #1. none of #2. (9) of #3. none of #4. none of #5. Silkis (sp) auto parts in jacksonville florida has none of #1 #2 #5 and (8) of #3 and (9) of #4. I am waiting to hear back from Paul at Hylift johnson. lambert auto sales in claremont new hampshire has none of #1 #2 #3 #5 and (14) of #4 EDIT So CJ has (14) .001" and "collectors" has (11) .001" and Brads has (1) .001" & I will post what Hylift Johnson has to say when he calls. No (.008") as of yet


Edited by RapidRobert (11/09/17 01:51 PM)
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#2401064 - 11/09/17 02:27 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: BSB67]
Dave Hall Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
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How is .016 equal to .025? I am not that familiar with small blocks and really never liked the stock lifter, pushrod geometry. I would imagine with all that crazy side load that the lifter bores will wear out on these? I've never seen a lifter that felt "loose" in its bore but again I have BB's. I would imagine that as soon as the lifters started getting loose in their bores that they could really start wobbling the hole out pretty substantially. If they do wear out enough to cause a pressure loss, wouldn't it be a good idea to get them bushed? The bushing will provide the correct pressure even if after time it wears out of spec.

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#2401073 - 11/09/17 02:48 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: Dave Hall]
RapidRobert Offline
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What happened is I overhoned the bores (brake hone grit was too rough) & now I would like to see if some OS lifters would restore a good amt of the psi & I direct fed the heads with a .060" orifice on both sides (I need to reduce that right now which may take care of some or all of the problem) plus the head gasket cooling hole additions/mods to "supposedly" improve the cooling system (& there was no issue to being with! so this being the 5th fireup to resolve the HG issue (& it was OK this time) I would like to take care of the oiling WO another teardown. I kinda lost my head on this eng. I'm gonna do the math on the area of a .001 reduction X 16 & see what I come up with but not right now. thanks guys. RR
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#2401074 - 11/09/17 02:54 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
Paul_Fancsali Offline
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Use 20-50wt oil and lot of the slop will be handled do no use 5 w any thing. But if you know the bores are off you should go with having them bushed

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#2401080 - 11/09/17 03:08 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: Paul_Fancsali]
RapidRobert Offline
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Paul that is an excellent thought that never crossed my mind!. I have bradd Penn breakin oil in there now which I ain't sure what the weight is but it is/poured real thin & I go with BP "regular" after that but I forgot the weight he usually sells me. Ok I'm gonna get some .001 lifters/reduce the head direct feeds from .060 to .030 (maybe .040) & get some thick oil in there. it will cost me some horsepower but a non issue if it keeps from haveing to tear down this monster again. I feel lucky (all of a sudden).
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#2401086 - 11/09/17 03:31 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: dogdays]
John_Kunkel Offline
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Originally Posted By dogdays
The phone number listed above is for Rurallife magazine, published by the same company that gave us Farm Journal and The Dakota Farmer. How could they be a lifter manufacturer?


Current number for Hylift Johnson is:

Sales and Service: (800) 441-1400 ext 500
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#2401088 - 11/09/17 03:35 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
Paul_Fancsali Offline
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Just remember that 20-50 is heavy on a 10 degree day I just don't start the engines in that weather if possible. I had to do it one year due to sewer issue So i hunted for a oil dip[stick heater worked like a charm

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#2401091 - 11/09/17 03:38 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: Paul_Fancsali]
RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
So i hunted for a oil dip[stick heater worked like a charm
Another dynamite idea, bro you have outdid yourself today!
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#2401205 - 11/09/17 09:36 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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Damn! Now I'm confused if I have hilift johnson or Johnson lifters... btw johnson lifters doesn't have them ( just got the reply to my email request )

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#2401208 - 11/09/17 09:43 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: Dave Hall]
BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted By Dave Hall
How is .016 equal to .025? I am not that familiar with small blocks and really never liked the stock lifter, pushrod geometry. I would imagine with all that crazy side load that the lifter bores will wear out on these? I've never seen a lifter that felt "loose" in its bore but again I have BB's. I would imagine that as soon as the lifters started getting loose in their bores that they could really start wobbling the hole out pretty substantially. If they do wear out enough to cause a pressure loss, wouldn't it be a good idea to get them bushed? The bushing will provide the correct pressure even if after time it wears out of spec.


.25" dia. Hole, not .025 clearance. Do you really want me to show the math? I will if you like. Maybe I made a mistake.

I don't get the sense this is a high end build. Measuring stuff could be an option too. Silly right
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#2401365 - 11/10/17 10:08 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: BSB67]
RapidRobert Offline
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I just got off the ph with Hylift Johnson & they have the .008" for $300 to my door & Central Jersey motorsports has .001" for $155 to my door
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#2401390 - 11/10/17 11:10 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
fast68plymouth Offline
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The difference in area between .904 and .905, 16 times, is .02272sq/in.

This is equal to about one .170" diameter hole(.02269sq/in).

That's a pretty big leak.

Quote:
I don't get the sense this is a high end build. Measuring stuff could be an option too. Silly right


Measure???
What a novel idea!!
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#2401411 - 11/10/17 12:11 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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Originally Posted By RapidRobert
I just got off the ph with Hylift Johnson & they have the .008" for $300 to my door



WHAAAAAT ?

( BTW, just confirmed the ones on my block are HLJ lifters )

Originally Posted By RapidRobert
Central Jersey motorsports has .001" for $155 to my door


HLJ brand ? or which brand ?


Edited by NachoRT74 (11/10/17 12:14 PM)

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#2401451 - 11/10/17 01:35 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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Nacho, they were NOS mopar lifters from CJM.

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#2401486 - 11/10/17 02:35 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
John_Kunkel Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
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Originally Posted By NachoRT74
Damn! Now I'm confused if I have hilift johnson or Johnson lifters... btw johnson lifters doesn't have them ( just got the reply to my email request )


Johnson and Hylift Johnson are two different companies.
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#2401495 - 11/10/17 03:01 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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mopars4ever

good

John_Kunkel

yes I know, just was confused which ones I had... and remembered later they are HLJ ones ( the ones from toplineauto )

RapidRobert

got the reply from Topline crew and you are right on the price... damn that's expensive!!!

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#2401502 - 11/10/17 03:18 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
EV2Bird Offline
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Have you considered vs throwing lifter money at a so so maybe fix, it just might be cheaper in the long run to machine a different old block?

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#2401514 - 11/10/17 03:45 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
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68plymouth, yes measureing would be dead on but I am going to get the .001's & swap em in thru the openings in the heads then finish the cam breakin & I know they wont be too tight. If I pulled the intake I could measure & maybe even the .008's would be required but I dont want to pull it as I am so close on this eng from Hell & I think between the .001" OS lifters & reduceing the .060 feeds to the heads that I (hopefully) can get my oil psi up in a good range. John Kunkel, the "Johnson" # I called was 1-800-441-1400. Nacho I have another loose block but for 3 bills when the time comes I might just have it bushed & run std lifters. EV2bird, point taken but on this deal now that it is in/running/head gaskets are sealing, if I can get it finished "reasonably" acceptable WO another teardown I will consider it a victory. with all the plumbing etc on this one it ain't fun (& this is fireup #5!).
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#2401537 - 11/10/17 04:45 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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Robert, do you have a lifter tool? I have a couple of them.

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#2401541 - 11/10/17 04:53 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: mopars4ever]
RapidRobert Offline
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Mopars4ever, if you mean a magnet yes I have a tailor made one on a long telescoping shaft that extends & one opening on the head was just big enough to get the lifter thru (I had to take one out). I got a feeling that my HF borescope will (finally) start paying for itself on this deal!
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#2401543 - 11/10/17 04:56 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
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I have the kind that hooks under the lip. Less chance of dropping the lifter. If you want to borrow one let me know and i`ll send it your way.

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#2401554 - 11/10/17 05:13 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: mopars4ever]
RapidRobert Offline
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Bro I appreciate the offer (but I feel lucky).
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#2401705 - 11/10/17 10:10 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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Could be the block honed with the brakes cylinder honning tool up to the diameter ?

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#2401767 - 11/11/17 04:27 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
fullonmopar Offline
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I bought a shoe box size box full of 008" oversize lifters for LA small blocks when Chrysler Australia shut down in the early 80s, been stuck with them ever since, maybe some day some one down under will need them I cant keep them for ever.

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#2401781 - 11/11/17 07:19 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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wondering if you would sell 16 of those and how much?

( maybe even with shipping will be cheaper than HiLift Johnsons units LOL )

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#2401798 - 11/11/17 08:13 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
BSB67 Offline
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Originally Posted By NachoRT74
wondering if you would sell 16 of those and how much?

( maybe even with shipping will be cheaper than HiLift Johnsons units LOL )


And probably better quality.
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#2401824 - 11/11/17 08:55 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: fullonmopar]
RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
been stuck with them ever since.
Me & Nacho might be able to help you get over that.
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#2401988 - 11/11/17 01:46 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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LOL... yes, maybe

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#2402403 - 11/12/17 08:06 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
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Or maybe I could say, mostly sure!

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#2402489 - 11/12/17 11:01 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
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Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Nacho I sent him a PM & if he will sell me a set I will let you know all the details. Hang loose.
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#2402600 - 11/12/17 01:42 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 4768
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
good... all 32 can be shipped to USA or to Vzla ( the cheaper one ) and then forward the other 16 from there.


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#2402961 - 11/13/17 09:35 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
I went ahead & pulled the trigger on (14) of em from central jersey motorsports for $159.80 shipped & (2) more from collectors auto supply for $35 shipped and I will holler if/when I hear back from fullonmopar.
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#2402967 - 11/13/17 09:51 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
mopars4ever Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10338
Loc: md
Glad you got what you needed. To bad us Mopar people have to go to such extremes to find specific parts when needed.

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#2402982 - 11/13/17 10:21 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: mopars4ever]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Thanks bro, yeah it just takes time and money. But it is worth it when we kick furd/chebby a$$ out on the track.
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2403004 - 11/13/17 10:52 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 4768
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
it seems the Aussie time doesn't help? LOL

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#2403201 - 11/13/17 05:23 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
I was just informed that the (14) from CJ motorsports ain't available so I went ahead & cancelled the (2) from "collectors".
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2403438 - 11/14/17 08:37 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 4768
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
ouch... well it seems we still have hopes from Aussie wink

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#2403522 - 11/14/17 11:52 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
the guy from collectors is checking to see if he can come up with 14 of em & he said he thinks he might be able to, I just wanted to keep things simple so I had him cancel the (2) lifter transaction & I will wait to see what kind of money he has in mind for the 14 if he can locate all of em. Fullonmopar just PM'd & he is very busy but he is going to get back to me soon on the .008"
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2403529 - 11/14/17 12:35 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 4768
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
same to me

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#2403743 - 11/14/17 07:52 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
I'm gonna call Jon at "collectors" tomorrow & see if he can get 14 (.001")'s cuz if I can slip em in there plus reduce the head feeds & get my pressure up OK I will be very happy (16 would be perfect but maybe 14 will suffice to reduce the psi). If not I'll have no choice but to tear it down but at least the HG issue is resolved. I would like to get a set of those (.008") just in case or for another block that will likely need em oversized. Nacho I will holler when I hear from him. EDIT I did the math on the area of a circle going from .904" to .905" & it is a gain of .0227 sq inches of area, which at first glance don't seem like much.


Edited by RapidRobert (11/14/17 09:37 PM)
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