are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
#2400459
11/08/17 01:25 PM
11/08/17 01:25 PM
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RapidRobert
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My lifter bores are worn & leaking profusely (oil psi gauge on oil sender boss is oscillating wildly from 20 to 5 psi) during breakin after about 5 minutes so I shut it down but until then it was ~40 & fairly steady. the bores were loose on assembly so I shoulda dealt with it then or found another block. Someone mentioned olds 425 lifters will work but are .921" so either the lifter bores would need to be bored or the lifters' OD reduced if that is even possible but it would be nice to resolve this (if possible) without a teardown. thank you for your time. PS I was thinking Ma had .001 OS lifters at one point in time.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2400476
11/08/17 01:48 PM
11/08/17 01:48 PM
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mopars4ever
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Chrysler years ago sold them. Some of the bores may be too big from the factory and not worn. Maybe a call to one of the lifter manufacturers would be a idea and see if there any options. Maybe try calling or emailing http://johnsonlifters.com/ What brand lifters did you use?
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2400487
11/08/17 02:10 PM
11/08/17 02:10 PM
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NachoRT74
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I'd like to myself get overbored lifter instead use bushings! I'm tired of get tapping noise at the first crank up everyday ( well when my car was in one piece LOL ). True I'm using thicker valve springs. Running johnson lifters
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2400491
11/08/17 02:16 PM
11/08/17 02:16 PM
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mopars4ever
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https://www.cjmotorparts.com/nos-mopar-parts-inventory.html show they have 3549990 14 nos lifters .001 Collectors auto supply is suppose to have some too. The part number I came up with is 3549990 for 318 and 3004644 for 360. I can only think they supersede in some way as the standard lifter part number was the same.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2400543
11/08/17 03:43 PM
11/08/17 03:43 PM
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dogdays
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I seem to remember the shop price for straightening and bushing 16 lifter bores at about $800. Most commonly used is the BHJ Lifter-Tru. Here's the page out of the BHJ catalog: http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_downloads/catalog/lo_res/BHJ_08Catalog_p10-11.pdfThe sleeve is 1.000" OD May not be a lot of support for the bores. I guess it depends a lot on the aggressiveness of the cam lobes. Not all Oldsmobiles had 0.921 lifters, in actuality the majority have 0.842 Chevy diameter. The conundrum for Olds guys is there were also two lifter bank angles, 39 and 45 degrees. That makes four combinations and I believe Olds used three of them. If you really want to get tricky the Olds hydraulic roller lifters used in their Diesel car engines used the 0.921 diameter. I think the only way to cut the lifter diameter would be by grinding. Bottom line - if the OS lifters are available buy them. If they're not available, get a different block. R.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2400551
11/08/17 03:58 PM
11/08/17 03:58 PM
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John_Kunkel
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From a previous thread on this subject:
"You can buy +.008,+.015,+.030 lifters at Hylift Johnson Ph# 1-800-441-1400 ask for Paul"
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2400626
11/08/17 06:34 PM
11/08/17 06:34 PM
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RapidRobert
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collectorsautosupply has em & is checking inventory for me & a price. cjmotorsports has 14 of em for $155 to my door. I left a msg for Paul at Hylift johnson. (all .001 OS). You guys are good. thank you! After finally getting the head gaskets to seal on the leaking head gasket from Hell engine it sure would be nice to deal with this oiling issue without another teardown!
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2400698
11/08/17 09:11 PM
11/08/17 09:11 PM
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RapidRobert
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"Collectors" also shows a listing for 318 and 360 lifters. I thought they were the same?
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2400732
11/08/17 10:40 PM
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RapidRobert
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Dave, good point EDIT I may have to get the .008 ones & tear it down & hone it but at least the HG issue is resolved so highly likely the 6th fireup will be good. Mr Murphy about got to me on this one.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 11/08/17 11:12 PM.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: carteravs]
#2400931
11/09/17 12:15 PM
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I'm not saying yours aren't too big, but a few extra thousandths will pass a lot of oil. You can do quite a bit of damage with a brake cylinder hone pretty quickly. that is exactly what happened. No diamond stamp. I'm calling: collectors/CJ motorparts/hylift johnson today to price some .008" lifters. Can I hone em out with a brake hone or does it need to go to the shop?
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2400967
11/09/17 01:33 PM
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RapidRobert
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^^^ I scrolled down your chart & noted their # (3549991) Thank you!
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2400984
11/09/17 02:17 PM
11/09/17 02:17 PM
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dogdays
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The phone number listed above is for Rurallife magazine, published by the same company that gave us Farm Journal and The Dakota Farmer. How could they be a lifter manufacturer?
R.
Please let us know what you found and where. This question comes up annually.
Last edited by dogdays; 11/09/17 02:55 PM.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401019
11/09/17 03:27 PM
11/09/17 03:27 PM
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BSB67
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I'm not saying yours aren't too big, but a few extra thousandths will pass a lot of oil. You can do quite a bit of damage with a brake cylinder hone pretty quickly. that is exactly what happened. No diamond stamp. I'm calling: collectors/CJ motorparts/hylift johnson today to price some .008" lifters. Can I hone em out with a brake hone or does it need to go to the shop? 0.001" for 16 lifters is equal to a .25" dia hole/leak. The 0.001" oversize lifters might make enough of a difference.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: BSB67]
#2401037
11/09/17 04:27 PM
11/09/17 04:27 PM
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RapidRobert
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From the "partsvoice" search: #1 3549990 (.001). #2 3004644. #3 3614321. #4 4049338. #5 3549991 (.008"). I ain't sure what the descrip of 2,3 & 4 are. CJ motorsports has (14) of #1 and none of #5. "collectors" has (11) of #1 (4) of #2 (9) of #3 (6) of #4 (0) of #5. Brads NOS parts west columbia south carolina Chrysler has 1 of #1. none of #2. (9) of #3. none of #4. none of #5. Silkis (sp) auto parts in jacksonville florida has none of #1 #2 #5 and (8) of #3 and (9) of #4. I am waiting to hear back from Paul at Hylift johnson. lambert auto sales in claremont new hampshire has none of #1 #2 #3 #5 and (14) of #4 EDIT So CJ has (14) .001" and "collectors" has (11) .001" and Brads has (1) .001" & I will post what Hylift Johnson has to say when he calls. No (.008") as of yet
Last edited by RapidRobert; 11/09/17 04:51 PM.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2401073
11/09/17 05:48 PM
11/09/17 05:48 PM
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RapidRobert
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What happened is I overhoned the bores (brake hone grit was too rough) & now I would like to see if some OS lifters would restore a good amt of the psi & I direct fed the heads with a .060" orifice on both sides (I need to reduce that right now which may take care of some or all of the problem) plus the head gasket cooling hole additions/mods to "supposedly" improve the cooling system (& there was no issue to being with! so this being the 5th fireup to resolve the HG issue (& it was OK this time) I would like to take care of the oiling WO another teardown. I kinda lost my head on this eng. I'm gonna do the math on the area of a .001 reduction X 16 & see what I come up with but not right now. thanks guys. RR
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#2401080
11/09/17 06:08 PM
11/09/17 06:08 PM
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RapidRobert
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Paul that is an excellent thought that never crossed my mind!. I have bradd Penn breakin oil in there now which I ain't sure what the weight is but it is/poured real thin & I go with BP "regular" after that but I forgot the weight he usually sells me. Ok I'm gonna get some .001 lifters/reduce the head direct feeds from .060 to .030 (maybe .040) & get some thick oil in there. it will cost me some horsepower but a non issue if it keeps from haveing to tear down this monster again. I feel lucky (all of a sudden).
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: dogdays]
#2401086
11/09/17 06:31 PM
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John_Kunkel
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The phone number listed above is for Rurallife magazine, published by the same company that gave us Farm Journal and The Dakota Farmer. How could they be a lifter manufacturer? Current number for Hylift Johnson is: Sales and Service: (800) 441-1400 ext 500
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#2401091
11/09/17 06:38 PM
11/09/17 06:38 PM
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RapidRobert
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So i hunted for a oil dip[stick heater worked like a charm Another dynamite idea, bro you have outdid yourself today!
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401205
11/10/17 12:36 AM
11/10/17 12:36 AM
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NachoRT74
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Damn! Now I'm confused if I have hilift johnson or Johnson lifters... btw johnson lifters doesn't have them ( just got the reply to my email request )
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2401208
11/10/17 12:43 AM
11/10/17 12:43 AM
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How is .016 equal to .025? I am not that familiar with small blocks and really never liked the stock lifter, pushrod geometry. I would imagine with all that crazy side load that the lifter bores will wear out on these? I've never seen a lifter that felt "loose" in its bore but again I have BB's. I would imagine that as soon as the lifters started getting loose in their bores that they could really start wobbling the hole out pretty substantially. If they do wear out enough to cause a pressure loss, wouldn't it be a good idea to get them bushed? The bushing will provide the correct pressure even if after time it wears out of spec. .25" dia. Hole, not .025 clearance. Do you really want me to show the math? I will if you like. Maybe I made a mistake. I don't get the sense this is a high end build. Measuring stuff could be an option too. Silly right
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: BSB67]
#2401365
11/10/17 01:08 PM
11/10/17 01:08 PM
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I just got off the ph with Hylift Johnson & they have the .008" for $300 to my door & Central Jersey motorsports has .001" for $155 to my door
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401390
11/10/17 02:10 PM
11/10/17 02:10 PM
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The difference in area between .904 and .905, 16 times, is .02272sq/in. This is equal to about one .170" diameter hole(.02269sq/in). That's a pretty big leak. I don't get the sense this is a high end build. Measuring stuff could be an option too. Silly right Measure??? What a novel idea!!
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401411
11/10/17 03:11 PM
11/10/17 03:11 PM
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NachoRT74
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I just got off the ph with Hylift Johnson & they have the .008" for $300 to my door WHAAAAAT ? ( BTW, just confirmed the ones on my block are HLJ lifters ) Central Jersey motorsports has .001" for $155 to my door HLJ brand ? or which brand ?
Last edited by NachoRT74; 11/10/17 03:14 PM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2401486
11/10/17 05:35 PM
11/10/17 05:35 PM
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John_Kunkel
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Damn! Now I'm confused if I have hilift johnson or Johnson lifters... btw johnson lifters doesn't have them ( just got the reply to my email request ) Johnson and Hylift Johnson are two different companies.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401495
11/10/17 06:01 PM
11/10/17 06:01 PM
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mopars4ever
good
John_Kunkel
yes I know, just was confused which ones I had... and remembered later they are HLJ ones ( the ones from toplineauto )
RapidRobert
got the reply from Topline crew and you are right on the price... damn that's expensive!!!
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2401514
11/10/17 06:45 PM
11/10/17 06:45 PM
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RapidRobert
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68plymouth, yes measureing would be dead on but I am going to get the .001's & swap em in thru the openings in the heads then finish the cam breakin & I know they wont be too tight. If I pulled the intake I could measure & maybe even the .008's would be required but I dont want to pull it as I am so close on this eng from Hell & I think between the .001" OS lifters & reduceing the .060 feeds to the heads that I (hopefully) can get my oil psi up in a good range. John Kunkel, the "Johnson" # I called was 1-800-441-1400. Nacho I have another loose block but for 3 bills when the time comes I might just have it bushed & run std lifters. EV2bird, point taken but on this deal now that it is in/running/head gaskets are sealing, if I can get it finished "reasonably" acceptable WO another teardown I will consider it a victory. with all the plumbing etc on this one it ain't fun (& this is fireup #5!).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2401541
11/10/17 07:53 PM
11/10/17 07:53 PM
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Mopars4ever, if you mean a magnet yes I have a tailor made one on a long telescoping shaft that extends & one opening on the head was just big enough to get the lifter thru (I had to take one out). I got a feeling that my HF borescope will (finally) start paying for itself on this deal!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2401554
11/10/17 08:13 PM
11/10/17 08:13 PM
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RapidRobert
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Bro I appreciate the offer (but I feel lucky).
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401705
11/11/17 01:10 AM
11/11/17 01:10 AM
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Could be the block honed with the brakes cylinder honning tool up to the diameter ?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401781
11/11/17 10:19 AM
11/11/17 10:19 AM
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NachoRT74
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wondering if you would sell 16 of those and how much?
( maybe even with shipping will be cheaper than HiLift Johnsons units LOL )
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2401798
11/11/17 11:13 AM
11/11/17 11:13 AM
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BSB67
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wondering if you would sell 16 of those and how much?
( maybe even with shipping will be cheaper than HiLift Johnsons units LOL ) And probably better quality.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: fullonmopar]
#2401824
11/11/17 11:55 AM
11/11/17 11:55 AM
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been stuck with them ever since. Me & Nacho might be able to help you get over that.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2402403
11/12/17 11:06 AM
11/12/17 11:06 AM
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NachoRT74
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Or maybe I could say, mostly sure!
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2402489
11/12/17 02:01 PM
11/12/17 02:01 PM
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RapidRobert
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Nacho I sent him a PM & if he will sell me a set I will let you know all the details. Hang loose.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2402600
11/12/17 04:42 PM
11/12/17 04:42 PM
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NachoRT74
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good... all 32 can be shipped to USA or to Vzla ( the cheaper one ) and then forward the other 16 from there.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2402961
11/13/17 12:35 PM
11/13/17 12:35 PM
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RapidRobert
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I went ahead & pulled the trigger on (14) of em from central jersey motorsports for $159.80 shipped & (2) more from collectors auto supply for $35 shipped and I will holler if/when I hear back from fullonmopar.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: mopars4ever]
#2402982
11/13/17 01:21 PM
11/13/17 01:21 PM
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Thanks bro, yeah it just takes time and money. But it is worth it when we kick furd/chebby a$$ out on the track.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2403004
11/13/17 01:52 PM
11/13/17 01:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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it seems the Aussie time doesn't help? LOL
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2403201
11/13/17 08:23 PM
11/13/17 08:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I was just informed that the (14) from CJ motorsports ain't available so I went ahead & cancelled the (2) from "collectors".
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2403522
11/14/17 02:52 PM
11/14/17 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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the guy from collectors is checking to see if he can come up with 14 of em & he said he thinks he might be able to, I just wanted to keep things simple so I had him cancel the (2) lifter transaction & I will wait to see what kind of money he has in mind for the 14 if he can locate all of em. Fullonmopar just PM'd & he is very busy but he is going to get back to me soon on the .008"
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2403743
11/14/17 10:52 PM
11/14/17 10:52 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I'm gonna call Jon at "collectors" tomorrow & see if he can get 14 (.001")'s cuz if I can slip em in there plus reduce the head feeds & get my pressure up OK I will be very happy (16 would be perfect but maybe 14 will suffice to reduce the psi). If not I'll have no choice but to tear it down but at least the HG issue is resolved. I would like to get a set of those (.008") just in case or for another block that will likely need em oversized. Nacho I will holler when I hear from him. EDIT I did the math on the area of a circle going from .904" to .905" & it is a gain of .0227 sq inches of area, which at first glance don't seem like much.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 11/15/17 12:37 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413014
12/04/17 12:32 PM
12/04/17 12:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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well... I'm still wishing to get the message from Australia LOL
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2413049
12/04/17 01:55 PM
12/04/17 01:55 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I did send him another PM awhile back & no answer so he must be busy. I did get a set of .001" OS lifters (3549990) from "Central jersey motorsports" & "Collectors" (both VG people to deal with) & just for fun one day I set one in another shortblock that also has very loose bores (not the one in the stock car) & it was significantly tighter, I was happily & pleasantly surprised that it made that much difference (& the OE lifter that was loose was barely broke in & it had alot of side to side play). So I am thinking that another set of .001" might resolve it on the other eng. what I need to do is pull the intake like was suggested earlier & get a good set of snap gauges & mike the bores plus do Hughes' "thunk" test especially since it is his cam. I'm like you still wondering if the .008's are needed if we can hand hone carefully. EDIT & there is the guy here who has a set of .008's for $300 (+ the ride!) & that is in the US of A!. Has Santa been good to you down there? I'll let you have first crack at em.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/04/17 01:57 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413052
12/04/17 01:57 PM
12/04/17 01:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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mmmm wondering if .001 could be enough for me
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2413098
12/04/17 03:31 PM
12/04/17 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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I don't think there is a way to use a wheel cylinder hone and get a cylindrical lifter bore as a result. Blocks have the cylinders honed with a rigid hone and even then it is easy to mess up a cylinder if honing by hand.
I'd be going the other way, working on ways to make the stock lifter bigger. They could be hard chromed and centerless ground, for example. We used to tighten up clearances in industrial Roots blowers by Teflon lining the casing. In that case the rotors would clearance the cases.
Some kind of anti friction coating that went on a mil thick might work. Shoot, copper plate them and then grind to size. Electroless nickel coating is supposed to provide very uniform thicknesses.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 12/04/17 03:33 PM.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413117
12/04/17 03:56 PM
12/04/17 03:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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sounds interesting BUT is hard to tell the worn lifter bores are oval or cilindrical ( I'd say they worn oval due the angled position ), so if that coating is appplied to the lifters how to "cut" them to match the bore ?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413339
12/05/17 12:08 AM
12/05/17 12:08 AM
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Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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I meant not because they are oval, but get wear like an oval
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413470
12/05/17 08:24 AM
12/05/17 08:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 234 Brisvegas, Australia
Alchemi
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The lifters themselves if rotating properly would be cylindrical with the potential for some taper to the top and or bottom as they wear
To achieve what you are suggesting, you would have to coat just the ovaled part of the bore
Clearance wise even if the bores are ok in "width" but worn on the "thrust" parts of the bore - it would wear in an X or hourglass shape in a direction modified by the twist of the lifter as it rotates, a very complex 3D shape to be sure
Last edited by Alchemi; 12/05/17 08:27 AM.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413480
12/05/17 10:21 AM
12/05/17 10:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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hard to reach that, that's why I find not easy what dogdays suggested with that product... better simply machine the bores ( of a hone job with care... I guess )...
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: dogdays]
#2413837
12/05/17 09:32 PM
12/05/17 09:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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You guys are making things way too difficult.
BB seems to think he could get all 16 lifter bores bored and sleeved for $300. (1) that's our job (2) actually it was the one company has a set of .008's for 3 bills
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: dogdays]
#2413877
12/05/17 10:48 PM
12/05/17 10:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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You guys are making things way too difficult.
Blazin' Bob had too much oil squirting out around his lifters. He was looking for oversize lifters. They would be cylindrical, just like the originals, only 0.001" or more larger in diameter. Still cylindrical.
These oversize lifters are hard to find and usually expensive.
He finally found a set of 0.001" oversize lifters (cylindrical) NO MATTER what his lifter bores looked like, the slightly larger lifters cut down the looseness in his test block.
BB seems to think he could get all 16 lifter bores bored and sleeved for $300. That would be an extremely low price according to me. I have seen prices quoted at around $800 for the job. That puts the operation out of reach for many.
If you cant make the hole smaller make the lifter bigger. That doesn't seem to be too hard to follow. I didn't say make the lifters oval or any other shape. Besides, if you could make a lifter with a barrel shape or conversely wider at top and bottom and skinnier in the middle to match the lifter bore barrel shape (looking from the side), how would you assemble the valvetrain? Given any sort of thought the suggestion is ludicrous. BUT if you could make the lifters 0.001" or 0.002" larger in diameter while keeping them cylindrical, it'd cut down on the slop just like BB discovered in his spare block.
So how to make the lifters larger in diameter but remain cylindrical? Plate them. The write-ups on electroless nickel plating say that the nickel deposits at a very uniform rate. They also say the plated nickel is quite hard.
My conclusion is that for a block with worn out lifter bores it may be possible to salvage the block without spending a zillion dollars on sleeving the lifter bores. This would be done by increasing the cylindrical diameter of the lifters by the amount necessary by electroless nickel plating. The fit wouldn't be perfect but it would be better. Now all we need to do is check on the price.
See how easy it is?
R. God bless ya.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2413902
12/05/17 11:19 PM
12/05/17 11:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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I'm just posting about the posibility if the bores weared out uneven ( oval due the lifters position or tappered ), wouldn't the electroless nickel plating fill the bore also uneven parallel to the weared out bore if applying to the bore? Or applying to the lifter, some areas of the bore will be tighter against the lifter than others?
Just thinking out loud, not saying I'm right or wrong. How critical could be this?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2414201
12/06/17 02:35 PM
12/06/17 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,478 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Hone .008 out of the lifter bores with a spring hone(and expect acceptable results)......that's funny.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2414288
12/06/17 05:06 PM
12/06/17 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,478 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Not to mention...... If there's a problem breaking the cam in, or you want to try a different cam...... You're looking for another set of unobtainium lifters.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2414316
12/06/17 06:04 PM
12/06/17 06:04 PM
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RapidRobert
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Yes I uncharacteristly totally lost it on this one. I'm gonna breakin the .001 lifters (that I now have in hand) & (if) no go then start with another block as suggested. Thanks guys.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Porter67]
#2414404
12/06/17 09:49 PM
12/06/17 09:49 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Thanks bro, I will break em in & see what my oil psi is (fingers crossed/prayers said).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: lewtot184]
#2414912
12/07/17 08:48 PM
12/07/17 08:48 PM
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Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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I don't know how easy it'd be to mask the internals of the hydraulic lifter but the concept was only to increase the lifter diameter by a thousandth or two. I did not think plating the inside of the lifter bore was practical as the block is big and heavy, plus there are many more surfaces that'd need to be masked. The lifter body itself should be more do-able.
There is another factor which is cost. If the cost to plate 16 lifters is too high, then it becomes more practical to sleeve the lifter bores.
Reportedly the electroless nickel coating is very hard. This may provide an advantage to the lifter face.
It is only an idea that could be pursued by an interested party.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 12/07/17 08:48 PM.
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Porter67]
#2415115
12/08/17 09:58 AM
12/08/17 09:58 AM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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What I am gonna do is replace the one lifter that is missing the very thin round plate with the several holes in it that is under the top lifter pushrod cup as Dog convinced me that it is bleeding off pressure & continue the breakin & if the psi is still wacked (& I think it will be as in addition to the fubared lifter, the bores are way too loose) I am gonna go ahead & drop in the .001's that I now have in my possession (15 of em), (1) is being searched for & rebreakin & see if THAT! takes care of it. & if not then I am gonna pull the eng & go with another one. Psi is oscillating in a certain range (I forget the # but it is low) which has to be the lifters then after several minutes it drops to near zero (still oscillating 10 psi or so, so I shut it down. After 5 head gasket changes (which finally go solved!) & hopefully the .001's will solve/finish this out. What happened here is outside issues got to me/affected my mechanical judgement (which ain't happened in decades) causing gross errors. Guys I really appreciate the help & support on this one as it was a toughie ('bout made me wanna throw in the towel) & definitely did test me. I will post if the single lifter or the .001's takes care of this. RR & Yes all pipe plugs are in place.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2415124
12/08/17 10:30 AM
12/08/17 10:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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of course the coat well worths a try! I was overthinking stuff if the wear is bigger and not symetric.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2415629
12/09/17 07:59 AM
12/09/17 07:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699 Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
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I keep on hearing people talk about honing the lifter bores. What about reaming them? I would think a properly sized ream would result in a truer bore than a honing would. I understand that a ream might be slightly pricy, but if you have several blocks to do it might be a better answer in the long run. If you can find some .008 O/S lifters - ream to .006-.007 and final hone to finish size.
Free advice and worth every penny... Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2416070
12/10/17 04:11 AM
12/10/17 04:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
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Here are some .030 oversize lifters!!! Spooky looking mugs here!
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2416683
12/11/17 10:57 AM
12/11/17 10:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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If I can get .008 I preffer... still need to get measured the bores and the machine shop hasn't being able to get my block due the large ammount of orders... we are waiting to the machine shop they are able to get mine dropped to the shop. Mostly sure will be by january
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Porter67]
#2421112
12/19/17 08:47 PM
12/19/17 08:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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rather than swap the one that is missing the thin plate with a new std one like I was gonna do, I just went ahead & pulled the intake & I am going to mike the bores & likely just drop in the .001 lifters (I got 15 of em) & rebreakit in & see what the psi does this time.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2421376
12/20/17 11:44 AM
12/20/17 11:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Nacho, On the .001's from the partsvoice search: brads NOS parts no longer has one. I bought all of central jersey motorsports ones. "collectors" does not have any (more). Benoy mtrs (Tom @ 815/308/5100) has some (less than 16, 6 iirc) & they quoted me $26.15 to get ONE to my door. On the .008's jasperbucks1522@gmail.com has em for $300 #22011-08, Dave at ext 611 if a person ends up calling there. I'm hopeing slowing down 15 of my leaks will resolve this, I gotta get over there & make some progress.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2421380
12/20/17 11:58 AM
12/20/17 11:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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I already got the quote from toplineauto ( HiLift Johnsons ) and is slightly better from the seller who attended me. But still hoping a better price option from Australia ? LOL.
But I'm still having the doubt if get the 2011s or the 976s. Wondering why the 976s didn't worked on mine ( 400 )
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2421386
12/20/17 12:10 PM
12/20/17 12:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Alright, I just PM'd him again (on the .008's)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2421436
12/20/17 02:15 PM
12/20/17 02:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Valencia, España
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I already did... without sucess.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2421666
12/20/17 11:46 PM
12/20/17 11:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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well... we don't know if could be better try to get them shipped to USA then 16 of them forwarded from there to Venezuela ( I have a forward courier there )... or backwards. I guess is better try to get the price of the set LOL, then the shipping method
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: fullonmopar]
#2421720
12/21/17 02:13 AM
12/21/17 02:13 AM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Aye Mate, we figured you were busy down under.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2421785
12/21/17 11:13 AM
12/21/17 11:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Rapid Robert, you got your inbox full... I'm trying to get a conversation between you, me and fullonmopar to work on this
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2421806
12/21/17 12:19 PM
12/21/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Damn! still getting same message
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2421822
12/21/17 01:04 PM
12/21/17 01:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I'll go delete a bunch more. EDIT Now try it
Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/21/17 01:10 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2427665
01/02/18 12:04 PM
01/02/18 12:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Do you mean the 3549990's which are the .001's (SB). I gotta get over there & slam the (15) of those that I already have in & see what the psi shows. I ain't up on the 3004648's but I was thinking someone posted that the cup height is different (BB to SB). As you know I PM'd our Aussie buddy twice & no word yet (on the .008's).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2427673
01/02/18 12:20 PM
01/02/18 12:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Valencia, España
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3004648 are BB which got the oil groove higher ( 976 replacement part ). Remember I'm BB owner, but I can take SB pieces ( 2011 replacement PN ) because they work on BB, not the other way around thought. I'm actually running HLJ SB pieces on my BB, because for whatever reason the BB HLJ never got charged. MAYBE is because the lifter bores are worn out somehow conical and the higher oil groove doesn't help?!!! Sooo maybe running OS BB lifter will work. The problem is the machine shop hasn't taken my block yet to measure it!
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2428645
01/04/18 01:07 AM
01/04/18 01:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Circle Track
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OP
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Nacho I spoke with both of the local machine shops today & neither has the capability of boreing/honing out for .008's so if our buddy strikes a deal you get first crack. If he wants to send em here I can certainly then forward em to you down there.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2428765
01/04/18 10:22 AM
01/04/18 10:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
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Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
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Good!
I still dunno if the local one will be able too either.
If the web seller I found got them in .001 maybe will be enough! Is hard to imagine how much is .001" but on this deal it seems to be a HUGE difference. Just opened my caliper at that gap and is really noticeable. So .001" should be enough
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2428817
01/04/18 12:46 PM
01/04/18 12:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Nacho, now if you (do) get some .001's be sure to get (17) so you can send me one! (I only have 15).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2428984
01/04/18 05:21 PM
01/04/18 05:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
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Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
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but I'm working on get BB ones if posible
HOWEVER I can request an extra for SB on same deal... that is if the deal works out. So far so good I just have got one reply from them asking for more info and if will be an inmediate buy or a bid ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2429060
01/04/18 06:59 PM
01/04/18 06:59 PM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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Jim at Racer Brown has them call him
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: ]
#2429215
01/04/18 10:41 PM
01/04/18 10:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Do you have a # or better yet a "site". I Googled & a bunch of listings but I didn't see an "actual" RB site to go to.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2429218
01/04/18 10:45 PM
01/04/18 10:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
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Just wondering! Did you check the link I posted?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2429253
01/04/18 11:53 PM
01/04/18 11:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I didn't see it, repost it or tell me where it is at & I will.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2429272
01/05/18 12:33 AM
01/05/18 12:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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master
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Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
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This they have a Phone number there... if you care to get the one you still need I'm waiting for the next email reply for the BB ones.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2436430
01/17/18 05:25 PM
01/17/18 05:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Nacho I called that company & they informed me that their minimum purchase (amt) is $600! Benoy mtrs has one (.001") for $25.xx to my door. I ain't heard back from the Aussie guy either on the .008's. If I do I will holler & you got first crack at em.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: Porter67]
#2437735
01/19/18 11:51 PM
01/19/18 11:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I set the (15) .001" lifters on the lobes & kept (1) of the std lifters & blocked off the .062" full time feeds to the rockers & preoiled & I got 62 PSI at the external remote parallel dual filter boss and 44 PSI at the oil psi sender at the top of the 360 block. the next step will be to button it up & fire it up & rebreakin & see if the psi stays adequate. Does this sound like enough psi so far? Can I tube a block & drill mini holes for hyd lifters (if I choose to/I do have the MP tube kit). EV2Bird I will PM you.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2437883
01/20/18 12:24 PM
01/20/18 12:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
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Robert... have a question... did you get just an oil pressure decay or also tappeting noises ?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2437890
01/20/18 12:44 PM
01/20/18 12:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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yes the psi at the sender dropped lower and lower & when it got to ~15 (iirc) I shut it down but the lifters were clattering a bit as soon as I fired it (I did have minimal preload). I will PM the Aussie guy again if you think that might help him move on the .008's. I cannot use them (no machining fixture) and if it is cheaper for him to send em here then I send em down to you I will certainly be willing to do that for you. I should go over there today (while the weather is nice/before the storm hits) & button up the intake etc & fire it up/rebreakin & see what the psi does this time.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2437901
01/20/18 01:02 PM
01/20/18 01:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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master
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Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
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I'm still unsure what to do... I just checked the HilIft Jhonson 976 lifters I have in hands which never worked on my engine, and they are charged... solid as a rock!!!, but never got quiet on my engine, like never got charged. Just run around 30 minutes on my engine.
still waiting the machine guys to get some answers
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2438010
01/20/18 05:11 PM
01/20/18 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,478 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,478
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I dont know the details of the specific application for this build, but...... Fwiw, about 25 years ago I was building oval track 318's and 360's(multiple track and series championships) that were running a little over 7000rpm(solid lifter cams) at the better tracks....... And those motors received no oil system modifications at all. Proper clearances and quality machining...... No oil related failures.
I used the Canton oval track pan and a std volume pump with a spring set up for about 75psi pressure at high rpm.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2438023
01/20/18 05:34 PM
01/20/18 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Hello Dwayne, I messed up the lifter clearance (too much honing/got distracted) & that is what I am dealing with here. I ordered (& have here on the carpet) the solid cam you recommended & it will be going into the backup eng.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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