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#2393378 - 10/26/17 12:48 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: RAMM]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8961
Loc: Charleston
Originally Posted By RAMM
Originally Posted By sixpackgut
[quote=fast68plymouth]



Dwayne, what do you think about the radius on the intake seat on these CNC heads I posted?


I know you didn't ask me but I saw that huge radius and thought--UGH. Do not like.

I have story about some 6.1 heads CNC'd by same place and yeah--that's a story for later. Let's just say that a proper valve job and properly sized throat really woke them up--something like 25-30 cfm at almost all lift points above .100". J.Rob


Sadly i did not measure the throat on these. I do not have scraps of hemi heads to play with. I have tried what your saying and lost my low lift numbers .5 and below. It picked up at .6 and up but not what i was looking for.

I am in my opinion a novice. I ask alot of questions because I don't know and thankfully alot of guys are willing to share. It could very well be that these heads would make a bunch more power than mine. I have no idea. But In my mind I would rather run my hack job.

On another note, how do you go about telling a customer that what he just paid for from one of the most well known builders in the country is not up to your standards and im going to charge you more money


Edited by sixpackgut (10/26/17 01:21 PM)
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#2393389 - 10/26/17 01:13 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: Adrielp]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8961
Loc: Charleston
Originally Posted By Adrielp
Guys, how much peak HP do you think is lost by not going .800 lift? I'm just curious if there is significant power to be gained there.


Give me 40k and Ill let you know smile
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Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2393447 - 10/26/17 03:24 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
Adrielp Offline
mopar

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Oklahoma
Lol, its always a question of time and money.
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#2393463 - 10/26/17 03:58 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
RAMM Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 875
Loc: The Great White North
Originally Posted By sixpackgut

Sadly i did not measure the throat on these. I do not have scraps of hemi heads to play with. I have tried what your saying and lost my low lift numbers .5 and below. It picked up at .6 and up but not what i was looking for.


On another note, how do you go about telling a customer that what he just paid for from one of the most well known builders in the country is not up to your standards and im going to charge you more money


So I flowed these 6.1 heads that came my way just for my own curiosity. As they were with a Manley 2.1" valve from a well known CNC shop on a 4.06" bore @ 28"
.1 68.2
.2 124.5
.3 181.4
.4 231
.5 282
.55 298
.6 310
.7 317

Seeing this I measured the throat and it was really small somewhere around 86.5% or something. I took a 70 deg stone and went to town and bumped the throat to a more normal 90% AND..

.1 76
.2 142
.3 205
.4 231
.5 295
.55 307
.6 318
.65 326
.7 331

So now I tell the customer what they flowed before vs after and I wound up with the job to fix them. That's how I was able to upsell this time. It also explained the poor chassis dyno performance to a degree. J.Rob
_________________________
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
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#2393470 - 10/26/17 04:20 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: RAMM]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8961
Loc: Charleston
Originally Posted By RAMM
Originally Posted By sixpackgut

Sadly i did not measure the throat on these. I do not have scraps of hemi heads to play with. I have tried what your saying and lost my low lift numbers .5 and below. It picked up at .6 and up but not what i was looking for.


On another note, how do you go about telling a customer that what he just paid for from one of the most well known builders in the country is not up to your standards and im going to charge you more money


So I flowed these 6.1 heads that came my way just for my own curiosity. As they were with a Manley 2.1" valve from a well known CNC shop on a 4.06" bore @ 28"
.1 68.2
.2 124.5
.3 181.4
.4 231
.5 282
.55 298
.6 310
.7 317

Seeing this I measured the throat and it was really small somewhere around 86.5% or something. I took a 70 deg stone and went to town and bumped the throat to a more normal 90% AND..

.1 76
.2 142
.3 205
.4 231
.5 295
.55 307
.6 318
.65 326
.7 331

So now I tell the customer what they flowed before vs after and I wound up with the job to fix them. That's how I was able to upsell this time. It also explained the poor chassis dyno performance to a degree. J.Rob


6.1 head is a bit different than eagles and apache. I port the 6.1 and eagle/apache 2 different ways. Thats really sad you had to do that but it is what it is for your customers sake. How often do you have the dress the stone when doing that. That degree just doesnt last long for me
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Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2393474 - 10/26/17 04:30 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
RAMM Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 875
Loc: The Great White North
I know they are different it was just that the shape of the seat in your photo reminded me of this. It is really sad. I have to dress the stone every seat. Adding this kind of flow shocked me though. J.Rob
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2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock

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#2393587 - 10/26/17 09:17 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10331
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Ray, re- the intake seats......

I doubt I would have ended up there myself.......but......I've had a few sets of gen 2 heads in the shop, done by very well known hemi head shops that had that same type of seat work.....so, until I tested it.......I can't condemn it.

As a rule of thumb, I use multi-angle intake seats.
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#2394348 - 10/28/17 05:55 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2478
Loc: Ontario Canada
Ray I don't know if you know this but all my head flows # are off of J.Rob bench.
I believe a long time ago you and I flowed a set of eagle heads and Both benches were within 2 to 3 cfm of each other.
Matt

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#2394785 - 10/29/17 11:37 AM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: MattW]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8961
Loc: Charleston
Originally Posted By MattW
Ray I don't know if you know this but all my head flows # are off of J.Rob bench.
I believe a long time ago you and I flowed a set of eagle heads and Both benches were within 2 to 3 cfm of each other.
Matt


Wow. That's good to know. Yes, extremely close. Didn't we match apache flow numbers almost exactly also?

With that being said, my 6.1 port job flows better than whats listed above also
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2394911 - 10/29/17 02:17 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2478
Loc: Ontario Canada
Yes we did!

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#2396211 - 10/31/17 04:29 PM Re: Flowed a CNC ported Apache head today [Re: sixpackgut]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4287
Loc: Nebraska
Thitek has a CNC program for Apaches. Would be cool to see one of those to.
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