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(Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse #2395330
10/30/17 01:26 PM
10/30/17 01:26 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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I need to pull my heads to replace the short rocker shaft studs with longer ones. It was one of those things that I didn't manage to get done and stay on schedule for the dyno session.

The Mr. Gasket MLS gaskets I used come with some type of coating that's supposed to help them seal. Disregarding the fact that some of this coating was already coming off the gaskets when I removed them from their packages, I'm interested in reusing them. I'd appreciate recommendations on what I should apply to these low-use MLS gaskets before putting the heads back on.

Thanks - Brad

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395331
10/30/17 01:27 PM
10/30/17 01:27 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Copper coat spray.

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2395334
10/30/17 01:29 PM
10/30/17 01:29 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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iagree


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Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2395372
10/30/17 02:01 PM
10/30/17 02:01 PM
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NW Indiana
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fbs63 Offline
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Spray Hylomar. Basically the same coating the FelPro 1009 head gaskets have in spray can form.

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395454
10/30/17 04:04 PM
10/30/17 04:04 PM
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You should be fine putting them back on dry but some people coat them. I always use them dry.

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395456
10/30/17 04:06 PM
10/30/17 04:06 PM
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NE Ohio
DoubleD Online content
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Never had any luck with the cheaper Mr. Gasket MLS - they would not re-seal even sprayed with copper tac. On the other hand the cometic gaskets - we just carefully wipe down with solvent and re-use - no issues!

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: DoubleD] #2395478
10/30/17 04:41 PM
10/30/17 04:41 PM
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Wichita
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Done Cometics 3x dry now. Never an issue.


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Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: DoubleD] #2395495
10/30/17 05:04 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Originally Posted By DoubleD
Never had any luck with the cheaper Mr. Gasket MLS - they would not re-seal even sprayed with copper tac.

OK, that strikes me as kind of odd... and disappointing. They certainly didn't COST any cheaper than Cometics, and were supposed to seal better.

FWIW, Mr. G says they are "nitrile-coated". But as I mentioned above, the coating had peeled/flaked off some parts of the gaskets when I pulled them out of their packages. Struck me as kind of a half-a$$ed coating if it didn't survive even that long.

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #2395498
10/30/17 05:09 PM
10/30/17 05:09 PM
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S.E. Michigan
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Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
Copper coat spray.


Yep

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395516
10/30/17 05:45 PM
10/30/17 05:45 PM
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NE Ohio
DoubleD Online content
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Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By DoubleD
Never had any luck with the cheaper Mr. Gasket MLS - they would not re-seal even sprayed with copper tac.

OK, that strikes me as kind of odd... and disappointing. They certainly didn't COST any cheaper than Cometics, and were supposed to seal better.

FWIW, Mr. G says they are "nitrile-coated". But as I mentioned above, the coating had peeled/flaked off some parts of the gaskets when I pulled them out of their packages. Struck me as kind of a half-a$$ed coating if it didn't survive even that long.


I see now they are actually cost more than cometics - used to be they were about 2/3 the price of cometics - throw them away and get some cometics you will not regret that move

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395518
10/30/17 05:46 PM
10/30/17 05:46 PM
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MI, usa
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3rd time around on mine. 15-1 no issues. I used copper spray. Did it need it? Don't know. I do know they don't leak, 550 passes.
Doug

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: dvw] #2395555
10/30/17 06:48 PM
10/30/17 06:48 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Originally Posted By dvw
3rd time around on mine. 15-1 no issues. I used copper spray. Did it need it? Don't know. I do know they don't leak, 550 passes.
Doug

Cometic or Mr. Gasket?

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395607
10/30/17 07:59 PM
10/30/17 07:59 PM
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MI, usa
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Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By dvw
3rd time around on mine. 15-1 no issues. I used copper spray. Did it need it? Don't know. I do know they don't leak, 550 passes.
Doug

Cometic or Mr. Gasket?

Cometic

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2395612
10/30/17 08:05 PM
10/30/17 08:05 PM
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Renton Washington
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Spray some Copper on them and don't worry about it again.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: Triple Threat] #2431061
01/08/18 02:44 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Bump from a few months ago...

I pulled off the heads yesterday and, although I can't say exactly why, I'm not sure that those Mr. Gasket MLS head gaskets actually sealed properly. I can't put my finger on it, but I think it's because they both looked kind of wet (coolant seepage?), which didn't seem normal to me.

The purpose of using MLS head gaskets in the first place was because the re-hone as part of this build didn't use torque plates. The machinist said the existing .060" oversize bores distorted too much with the torque plate and did a quick touch-up hone w/o it, so I figured an MLS would reduce some of the distortion vs the typical composition gasket I'd use. The block & head surfaces certainly appeared smooth enough to use an MLS, especially w/ Mr. Gasket saying their nitrile coating was more forgiving of surface irregularities.

Haven't decided on the best option for when the heads go back on:
1. Coat the Mr. G MLS parts w/ "something" and re-use them (and does this require disassembling them and coating all the layers?)
2. Buy a set of Cometic MLS gaskets, since they seem to have a better reputation in this thread
3. Use some of my tried-and-true orange Detroit Gasket "Competition" composition head gaskets

Thoughts?

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2431072
01/08/18 03:08 PM
01/08/18 03:08 PM
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Florida
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Originally Posted By BradH
Bump from a few months ago...

I pulled off the heads yesterday and, although I can't say exactly why, I'm not sure that those Mr. Gasket MLS head gaskets actually sealed properly. I can't put my finger on it, but I think it's because they both looked kind of wet (coolant seepage?), which didn't seem normal to me.

The purpose of using MLS head gaskets in the first place was because the re-hone as part of this build didn't use torque plates. The machinist said the existing .060" oversize bores distorted too much with the torque plate and did a quick touch-up hone w/o it, so I figured an MLS would reduce some of the distortion vs the typical composition gasket I'd use. The block & head surfaces certainly appeared smooth enough to use an MLS, especially w/ Mr. Gasket saying their nitrile coating was more forgiving of surface irregularities.

Haven't decided on the best option for when the heads go back on:
1. Coat the Mr. G MLS parts w/ "something" and re-use them (and does this require disassembling them and coating all the layers?)
2. Buy a set of Cometic MLS gaskets, since they seem to have a better reputation in this thread
3. Use some of my tried-and-true orange Detroit Gasket "Competition" composition head gaskets

Thoughts?


One engine I had built had Mr. Gasket MLS gaskets and I was told that they seeped until after the initial engine break-in/heat cycles even though the surfaces had the proper finish. It sealed ok for the short time I ran it, but after I got water in the engine from another problem, I switched to more conventional composition gaskets for peace of mind on my 360 (Fel-Pro 1008).

What REALLY caught my attention was your engine builder not honing with torque plates because he said that the +.060" walls were too thin and distorted too much with a plate. confused The whole purpose of torque plates is to simulate the heads during the honing process so when the heads are actually bolted on and stressing/distorting the block, the bores remain round! (Some also use the same type of gasket to help duplicate all of the influential factors.) I'm not sure how much the deck plate affects head gasket seal, perhaps a little, if any, but it certainly would affect the ring seal.

NOTE: Are you saying that the initial build didn't use torque plates? I would be curious how much, if any, a head gasket style affects the deck even though it can't hurt to use one during honing.)

Last edited by Locomotion; 01/08/18 03:20 PM.
Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: Locomotion] #2431149
01/08/18 05:11 PM
01/08/18 05:11 PM
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BradH Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Locomotion

NOTE: Are you saying that the initial build didn't use torque plates? I would be curious how much, if any, a head gasket style affects the deck even though it can't hurt to use one during honing.)

OK, so I think I should provide some background so it's clearer to anyone who reads this.

1. EB (Engine Bulder) "A" provided a prepped & assembled 4.375"-bore 440 short block for me after I destroyed my previous one when I threw a rod at the 1000 ft mark one night. EB "A" was supposedly a "Mopar Guru". I wiped a cam in that build after about 1200 miles (another story in itself) and he re-honed it due to the cam debris having messed up things. I found out much later that he "doesn't believe in torque plates". No, I don't know why in this day and age anyone would have that opinion...

2. When that (re)build was torn down to be freshened up, etc., EB "B", who was MUCH closer to me than EB "A", said the bores were too loose and he recommended taking it out from 4.375" to 4.380". He ordered the pistons for me and charged me (I still have the receipt) to do the cylinder hone finish work WITH a torque plate. I did the assembly of that engine, although EB "B" did the short block machine work and Dwayne Porter did the Stage VI heads I switched to.

3. I ran the block that EB "B" prepped for me until I had an oil system eff-up that required me to tear down the engine again. EB "B" had since relocated (or closed, not sure at this point, and don't care), so I asked around for recommendations for someone else close to where I now live. That brings EB "C" into the story.

4. EB "C" had a good rep, so I took my stuff to him to have a touch-up hone done as part of this rebuild. He asked me for the history of the block, and I told him what I knew. He calls me later and says, as best as I can remember, "Well, EB 'B' may have put a torque plate on the block when he honed it, but he sure as He11 didn't bolt it down. The only way these bores are round is if the plate is left off, and they won't clean up properly with the plate on at this bore because of the distortion." It was at this point I went and verified that EB "B" DID charge me for honing that block w/ a torque plate, even though it certainly sounds like he didn't.

5. So, EB "C" and I talked... He was also doing the full prep work on my spare 440 block, so we decided to just hone the first block w/o the plate (it had obviously been running that way for quite a while). At least that way I could put the 4.380" short block back together while I was still collecting the rest of the parts for the freshly machined 4.375" 440 block to replace it.

The somewhat amusing thing is that this same well-used (or "tired", as I recently called it) short block made as much HP and torque as it did, despite having .003" too-loose piston-to-cylinder wall clearances and "not round" bores. And, yet, I don't know that the next build with the properly-machined block, new pistons, etc., would actually make any more power when assembled with the same heads, cam, etc.

///////////////////////////////

Some tech magazine I read years ago had an article showing how different head gasket designs / compositions changed the way the bores distorted. An MLS construction resulted in noticeably less distortion than a composition gasket in their example. That was one of the first times that I heard how it's important to use the same type of gasket during the actual engine assembly as was used during the plate-hone operation.

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2431151
01/08/18 05:20 PM
01/08/18 05:20 PM
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Las Vegas
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I spray them with copper coat and use them. Yes you need to take them apart to clean them properly


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"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: BradH] #2431152
01/08/18 05:23 PM
01/08/18 05:23 PM
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NE Ohio
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I would use a new set of cometics and move on - not worth taking it apart again if they do not seal - you are experiencing exactly the same thing I did with the Mr. Gasket MLS head Gaskets

Re: (Re)coating MLS gaskets prior to reuse [Re: DoubleD] #2431162
01/08/18 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By DoubleD
... you are experiencing exactly the same thing I did with the Mr. Gasket MLS head Gaskets

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