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727's #2391851
10/23/17 03:20 PM
10/23/17 03:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,772
Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline OP
top fuel
DusterKid  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,772
Keymar, MD
I didn't want to hi jack the other 727 thread but do have a few questions.

These explosions with 727's do they only occur when a trans-brake is used? or can it happen footbraking as well?

Which part actually causes the carange? The drum exploding?

Which stock parts should be updated and to what to help prevent such thing from happening.

I have a 3200 car that runs high 10's in the quarter and am looking to start top bulb racing, but not use a transbrake, but instead use 4 line locks, starting line controller, etc. My 727 has stock parts other than a TB valve body, been raced that way for many years footbraking. I do have a CSR shield installed, but didn't know what else I should upgrade.

Re: 727's [Re: DusterKid] #2391876
10/23/17 03:59 PM
10/23/17 03:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,158
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Offline
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Posts: 20,158
Park Forest, IL
What actually happens is the sprag rolls/breaks in low gear and allows the front drum to spin over twice engine speed. It can happen on any trans with no low band apply. I've seen it happen on a high 13 second footbrake small block car.

The cast iron front drum explodes.

You need a billet steel or aluminum drum, Super Sprag, and a low band apply valve body/brake. LBA and a sprag help, but the billet drum is what prevents the big boom.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: 727's [Re: DusterKid] #2391885
10/23/17 04:10 PM
10/23/17 04:10 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
A
Adobedude Offline
pro stock
Adobedude  Offline
pro stock
A

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
Unless you're ET chasing, index racing and to gain .0001...Go with a Billet steel drum, it'll last longer.


2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
Re: 727's [Re: Adobedude] #2391893
10/23/17 04:32 PM
10/23/17 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
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Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
iagree And it doesn't matter if you're using a transbrake or not. My stock drum exploded footbraking, after 2 years of abuse in a 9 sec 3800 lb car. The pass before it exploded, the car spun then hooked in low gear. That probably killed the sprag, then the next pass it exploded when I hammered it at the line. Made a big mess.
Had a TA manual VB in it w/ no low band apply.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 727's [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2391896
10/23/17 04:41 PM
10/23/17 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,462
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Online content
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Online Content
The Doctor is in.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,462
Eagle, Idaho
I have one with a stock drum and now thinking about just buying a billet one for it before putting it in the car.

I just have a stock valve body with a Transgo 2 shift kit.

It has a column shifter that I was hoping to just leave in DRIVE and use the governor weights to raise the WOT shift points. Sound like leaving the line in DRIVE with a regular valve body means the low band is not applied? Starting in second applies the band, but starting in second can't be good either?

Wonder how the F.A.S.T. class racing guys set theirs up? Do they shift them manually with the stock console and column shifters?

Last edited by Neil; 10/23/17 04:42 PM.
Re: 727's [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2391897
10/23/17 04:43 PM
10/23/17 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
S
SCATPACK 1 Offline
pro stock
SCATPACK 1  Offline
pro stock
S

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
Another thing to consider, along with what was just said about spinning out of a burnout and then letting it hook hard hurting the sprag. Broke a u joint and lost the drive shaft. It allowed something to brake in the trans and my buddy did not even bother to pull the trans to check it. It let go the next time out. And his was a 400. So it can happen to all trans types.


Old Geezer Racing
Re: 727's [Re: Neil] #2391914
10/23/17 05:05 PM
10/23/17 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,812
Connecticut
FurryStump Offline
master
FurryStump  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,812
Connecticut
Originally Posted By Neil
I have one with a stock drum and now thinking about just buying a billet one for it before putting it in the car.

I just have a stock valve body with a Transgo 2 shift kit.

It has a column shifter that I was hoping to just leave in DRIVE and use the governor weights to raise the WOT shift points. Sound like leaving the line in DRIVE with a regular valve body means the low band is not applied? Starting in second applies the band, but starting in second can't be good either?

Wonder how the F.A.S.T. class racing guys set theirs up? Do they shift them manually with the stock console and column shifters?
Yes the vast majority shift their columns and stock console. I don't, my motor is all done at 6200 rpm and I have the a&a govenor for 6000 rpm. The trans is from Cope Racing Trans with low band apply. I run a blanket.


best of 11.39 at 117 mph 1.60 60’. 68 340 S Barracuda Fastback F.A.S.T [IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnnnt.jpg[/IMG]
Re: 727's [Re: DusterKid] #2391943
10/23/17 05:55 PM
10/23/17 05:55 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
J
J_BODY Offline
I Live Here
J_BODY  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
Scenario with a friends car: did burnout in 2nd, pulled to the line, left in 1st, broke the 8.75 on launch. In hindsite the gear breakage shocked the sprag and about 150ft later the STOCK drum exploded.

I don't run the super sprag, and my one Griner was not a LBA nor was the tranz-act in my old car, but we run the billet drum. Not sure if my current t-brake is LBA or not.

Re: 727's [Re: slantzilla] #2391956
10/23/17 06:19 PM
10/23/17 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
Originally Posted By slantzilla

the billet drum is what prevents the big boom.


True but a failed sprag often wipes out the case anyhow....but less dramatic.


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Re: 727's [Re: DusterKid] #2392022
10/23/17 08:50 PM
10/23/17 08:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,815
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,815
MI, usa
The failure is caused when the low roller (sprag) is shocked and fails to keep the rear drum from rotating. This in turn causes the forward drum to spin at rear gear ratio (aprox 2.3) times engine RPM. The stock front drum will not withstand much over 10,000-12,00 rpm. It weighs about 7lbs. That's a lot of force at that speed. I tried the double line lock. Found it to be slower than foot brake. What tree? .400 or .500? Can you deep stage? If your trans has a brake why are you not using it? With your car I would suggest the aftermarket drum of your choice. And a steel front planet if you're going to run the brake. At that level that"s really all it needs. If you foot brake I'd put a switch in the brake pedal for a 2 step and stage as deep as necessary (and allowed) for proper R/T.
Doug







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