Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390001
10/19/17 08:17 PM
10/19/17 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
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Damn...Hate to see that stuff happen
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: tex013]
#2390009
10/19/17 08:45 PM
10/19/17 08:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,651 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,651
Wichita
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Wow, is that a flame in the hoodscoop in the first pic?
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: tex013]
#2390010
10/19/17 08:47 PM
10/19/17 08:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,009 Richmond Twp. Mi.
Mr340
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,009
Richmond Twp. Mi.
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Looks like you can see a little flame in the scoop on the first pic...Damn that hurts.
on another note how'd your carb test go?
Last edited by Mr340; 10/19/17 08:49 PM.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Mr340]
#2390041
10/19/17 10:03 PM
10/19/17 10:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873 Chicken coop
dustergirl340
OP
Chicken Little
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OP
Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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on another note how'd your carb test go?
Only got to make 2 passes. We ran a baseline pass with the 750, then swapped on the 950 (off Tim's Challenger, with zero tuning, still has the stock jets in it) and it ran slightly faster then the well tuned 750, with a worse 60 foot time (track was getting cold and the street tire guys were tearing up the starting line). It also didn't seem to run out of steam at the 1000 foot mark like it does with the 750. It was running a bit lean too, which I knew even before we checked the plugs as the temp spiked. We were hoping to make a couple more passes after tuning it but there were a ton of oildowns last night.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2390044
10/19/17 10:07 PM
10/19/17 10:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873 Chicken coop
dustergirl340
OP
Chicken Little
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OP
Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Dang!
I hope he is okay.
How bad did it hurt the car?
Was there a shield or blanket? If so what brand and how well did it work.
Thanks! Bill Driver is okay. The car got a dent and is missing some paint on the passenger side. Guy said the slicks were brand new and shrapnel sliced the driver side one and ruined it. I don't know if he was running a shield or blanket or what kind of drum was in it.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390062
10/19/17 10:48 PM
10/19/17 10:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Driver is okay. The car got a dent and is missing some paint on the passenger side. Guy said the slicks were brand new and shrapnel sliced the driver side one and ruined it. I don't know if he was running a shield or blanket or what kind of drum was in it.
Thanks! If you find out any more please share with us. Bill
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390259
10/20/17 12:31 PM
10/20/17 12:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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It was rough. He had a blanket, but everything was mangled. Overhearing the guys talk, it broke the block, bent the framerail, bent the headers. You could see the floorpan bent well past the gas pedal mount.
Insult to injury, as was mentioned, the car was pushed back over the shrapnel which cut the slick.
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390274
10/20/17 01:33 PM
10/20/17 01:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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So what failed, the roller clutch allowing the drum to burst or the converter?
ETA...NVM, now that I see the pictures.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 10/20/17 05:15 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: DoubleD]
#2390301
10/20/17 02:34 PM
10/20/17 02:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,849
fullmetaljacket
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,849
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390319
10/20/17 03:23 PM
10/20/17 03:23 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260 New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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Stock Drum...? Sorta looks like on.
2001 Dodge Dakota 408 All Motor 11.27 @ 117.83 mph 2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390331
10/20/17 03:56 PM
10/20/17 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,478 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,478
So. Burlington, Vt.
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That's ugly!!
Pretty serious carnage to that floor pan.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: J_BODY]
#2390431
10/20/17 07:21 PM
10/20/17 07:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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yes.... but was it because it was built like a "typical" 727. OUCH!!!!!!!!! That's gonna leave a mark
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390458
10/20/17 07:57 PM
10/20/17 07:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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A local racer recently lost a sprag which wiped out the case and rear support. Disassembly found other distressed parts. I gave him a list of the minimum parts I would replace but he won't spend the money.
Sometimes an incident like this is the only way to make believers out of skeptics.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2390469
10/20/17 08:26 PM
10/20/17 08:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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A local racer recently lost a sprag which wiped out the case and rear support. Disassembly found other distressed parts. I gave him a list of the minimum parts I would replace but he won't spend the money.
Well then he's asking for it. People have been blowing these things up for 50 years, at least. If you haven't gotten the memo by now, it's hard to feel bad for you when you shell one.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2390470
10/20/17 08:27 PM
10/20/17 08:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517
pacific northwest
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Yikes, would be a good time to list the parts needed to prevent this
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390478
10/20/17 08:41 PM
10/20/17 08:41 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260 New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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Low band apply valve body. Billet steel drum. Bolt in sprag.
At least I hope that will, that's what I have.
2001 Dodge Dakota 408 All Motor 11.27 @ 117.83 mph 2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Adobedude]
#2390540
10/20/17 10:31 PM
10/20/17 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,468 N.Y.
sixpacksteve
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,468
N.Y.
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i went with aluminum drum to prevent this!
Hell Hath No Fury Like Mine
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2390562
10/20/17 10:53 PM
10/20/17 10:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,398 Dandridge TN
Dabee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,398
Dandridge TN
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Yikes, would be a good time to list the parts needed to prevent this Im going to stir the pot. Build a power glide using all the correct race parts. Problem solved.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Dabee]
#2390573
10/20/17 11:13 PM
10/20/17 11:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Yikes, would be a good time to list the parts needed to prevent this Im going to stir the pot. Build a power glide using all the correct race parts. Problem solved. That was my choice. I lost some ET but its way more consistent, cheaper, more options, and safer. I've since recovered most of the lost ET so its a win win.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390597
10/21/17 12:00 AM
10/21/17 12:00 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260 New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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I NEED a three speed, and it's a three speed 727 that blew up...info to help those of us running a 727 would be appreciated. Thanks.
2001 Dodge Dakota 408 All Motor 11.27 @ 117.83 mph 2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390599
10/21/17 12:01 AM
10/21/17 12:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
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I saw a guy blow up a 727 in a 340 Barracuda dialed 13:70. Had a Cheetah with no LBA and no blanket. His trans builder had tried go talk him into a billet drum and a blanmet, but he claimed he couldn't afford it. When it blew up it broke his foot and he was off work over a month.
727 is no place to be "frugal", especially when good parts aren't that expensive.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Adobedude]
#2390603
10/21/17 12:08 AM
10/21/17 12:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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I NEED a three speed, and it's a three speed 727 that blew up...info to help those of us running a 727 would be appreciated. Thanks.
The parts you mentioned are a good start. I replaced rollers and springs regularly as well. Anything happens to the rear, driveshaft, spin the tires hard or anything like that, get the trans out and look at the roller clutch. Put it in second before you even go into the water box.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390614
10/21/17 12:24 AM
10/21/17 12:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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I am going to call the builder of the trans that's in my 10.0 street Barracuda and find out whats in it.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2390618
10/21/17 12:28 AM
10/21/17 12:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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You brought up a very good point about spinning hard. With radials now becoming so popular they either bite, or they don't. My Friend picked up .20 on radials a few weeks ago BUT during our Halloween Race I don't know what happened but he spun like a mad man during one time trial. And our track is known for good traction. If it was a 727 instead of a powerglide major damage could have happened inside the transmission.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2390630
10/21/17 01:11 AM
10/21/17 01:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 184 Memphis,TN
J. Hammer
member
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member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 184
Memphis,TN
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Had a friends 1965 Belvedere puke its 727 on the street earlier this year. Could have been worse.
Last edited by J. Hammer; 10/21/17 01:12 AM.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2390634
10/21/17 01:29 AM
10/21/17 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254 Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,254
Canada
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You brought up a very good point about spinning hard. With radials now becoming so popular they either bite, or they don't. My Friend picked up .20 on radials a few weeks ago BUT during our Halloween Race I don't know what happened but he spun like a mad man during one time trial. And our track is known for good traction. If it was a 727 instead of a powerglide major damage could have happened inside the transmission. How hard was he spinning? I don’t have anything with a 727 in it now but you guys have me absolutely terrified. After reading this I wouldn’t want to do a burnout or burn rubber with one. I knew there were nono’s but I’d be really fun shy to have any fun lol
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2390692
10/21/17 06:27 AM
10/21/17 06:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA
Dave Hall
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,363
Cotati, CA
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If it was a 727 instead of a powerglide major damage could have happened inside the transmission. Spin and shake will screw up ALL automatics. Every T/D and T/S guy I know has a spare glide or 400 or Lenco. Most Powerglide users I know have at least two others laying around. Buddy of mine running Super E back in the 90's went through at least two glides every race! Built right, used and maintained correctly, a 727 should handle any of our 6-900hp engines. I do have a picture of my buddy's '63 Belvedere that looks like it ran over a deer on the starting line. CSR shield barely dented the floor. There wasn't a piece bigger than your fist left. I'll try to find it and post it.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2390703
10/21/17 09:27 AM
10/21/17 09:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,322 Michigan
crlush
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,322
Michigan
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A local racer recently lost a sprag which wiped out the case and rear support. Disassembly found other distressed parts. I gave him a list of the minimum parts I would replace but he won't spend the money.
Sometimes an incident like this is the only way to make believers out of skeptics.
You should have posters made of all the 727 failures due to stock parts in high hp cars and hang them in your shop, I saved these pics on this thred and have some others i found.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390741
10/21/17 11:29 AM
10/21/17 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155
CT
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Has anyone ever seen someone blow up a front drum WITH an LBA valve body, using manual low?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390763
10/21/17 12:20 PM
10/21/17 12:20 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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It's kind of funny a year ago I posted the question about using a turbo 400 behind my big block and was told to stick with the 727 even by Monty.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Iowan]
#2390783
10/21/17 12:49 PM
10/21/17 12:49 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
master
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master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488
northern,Ohio,USA
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It's kind of funny a year ago I posted the question about using a turbo 400 behind my big block and was told to stick with the 727 even by Monty. What you got was an opinion and what works for others,Some don't mind doing more work and have the resources.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390806
10/21/17 01:47 PM
10/21/17 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
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Btw.... 904 trans doesn't have the mass of the 727. No worries there I have a 904 in my '65 Dart. I was going to ask if anyone has ever heard of a 904 blowing up? As J_Body said, the front drum is much smaller. When I was spraying my junk I asked my trans guy if I should put a blanket on it and was told no.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2390874
10/21/17 03:40 PM
10/21/17 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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That is Any 727 users worst nightmare! I went through my 727 last year, didn’t have the funds for an aftermarket drum, but I do run an LBA valvebody, a bolt in sprag, and a blanket just in case. There’s no way to make this hobby completely danger-proof though. As soon as you have your explosion proof transmission figured out, there’s a litany of other perils waiting for you. At some point, you do your best and get on with it.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: J_BODY]
#2390888
10/21/17 04:38 PM
10/21/17 04:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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Btw.... 904 trans doesn't have the mass of the 727. No worries there True. But when we ran one, I still didn't want to break it due to stupid. It was in second when I came out the front of the lanes.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Adobedude]
#2390911
10/21/17 05:40 PM
10/21/17 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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Low band apply valve body. Billet steel drum. Bolt in sprag.
Not just a bolt-in sprag but a Super/Ultimate sprag. The unit I mentioned had a bolt-in and it failed.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Iowan]
#2390949
10/21/17 08:15 PM
10/21/17 08:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
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It's kind of funny a year ago I posted the question about using a turbo 400 behind my big block and was told to stick with the 727 even by Monty. GM Trannies explode too IF they are not built right or are abused. Any trans can be a time bomb if abused with the wrong parts.
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2390964
10/21/17 09:12 PM
10/21/17 09:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596 Mass.
80fbody
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
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Low band apply valve body. Billet steel drum. Bolt in sprag.
Not just a bolt-in sprag but a Super/Ultimate sprag. The unit I mentioned had a bolt-in and it failed. Exactly. Standard bolt-in sprags are really no better than stock. Meant as a case saver type part.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: 80fbody]
#2390965
10/21/17 09:22 PM
10/21/17 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,468 N.Y.
sixpacksteve
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,468
N.Y.
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727's Suck! my buddy just put a glide behind his 440 and that just blew.
So what next? G Force but 4 speed's are inconsistent!
Hell Hath No Fury Like Mine
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2391006
10/21/17 11:20 PM
10/21/17 11:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290 Cincinnati, Ohio
d7cook
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
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It's kind of funny a year ago I posted the question about using a turbo 400 behind my big block and was told to stick with the 727 even by Monty. GM Trannies explode too IF they are not built right or are abused. Any trans can be a time bomb if abused with the wrong parts. Th400 main problem is tossing into nuetral across the stripe. Unless you have a valve body deigned to do it. 123n. I currently run one. Easy to build. BOP versions are cheap and plentiful. Personally I have always hated the 2-3 shift on 727's and tweaking the band.
1967 Coronet, 1989 Daytona tube chassis.
Former cars, 66 Charger, 67 R/T, 69 Coronet, 67 Dart GT.
-Banned for life from V8Buick.com-
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Tempest]
#2391015
10/22/17 12:00 AM
10/22/17 12:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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A lot of guys do most of the damage on improper tire heating
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2391020
10/22/17 12:09 AM
10/22/17 12:09 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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Ok who are the suppliers for the drum and valve bodies needed, I did a quick search and came back with zip.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Tempest]
#2391032
10/22/17 12:46 AM
10/22/17 12:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Asking this question again for clarification. If one does not have an aftermarket drum and LBA, will launching car in 2nd avoid (for the most part) this issue? I suppose it would, but you generally need first gear in drag racing. Since it’s generally when you freewheel the trans in 1st without the band applied that the drum is at risk, Most do their burnout starting in second to avoid the issue.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Leigh]
#2391033
10/22/17 12:52 AM
10/22/17 12:52 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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Ascertain the performance required, select the trans and get out the credit card. There is no free lunch. They all have issues and their associated costs. I've been running the same trans since 1988, all Turbo Action parts including the valve body. No rebuilds just maintenance, 1.40 60ft times no trans brake. I'm just looking for the suppliers for the parts.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Iowan]
#2391044
10/22/17 01:43 AM
10/22/17 01:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
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Ascertain the performance required, select the trans and get out the credit card. There is no free lunch. They all have issues and their associated costs. I've been running the same trans since 1988, all Turbo Action parts including the valve body. No rebuilds just maintenance, 1.40 60ft times no trans brake. I'm just looking for the suppliers for the parts. Call Keith Long/ 727specialists. 219/718-3542
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: d7cook]
#2391065
10/22/17 03:04 AM
10/22/17 03:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 199 PA
Scully
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 199
PA
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It's kind of funny a year ago I posted the question about using a turbo 400 behind my big block and was told to stick with the 727 even by Monty. GM Trannies explode too IF they are not built right or are abused. Any trans can be a time bomb if abused with the wrong parts. Th400 main problem is tossing into nuetral across the stripe. Unless you have a valve body deigned to do it. 123n. I currently run one. Easy to build. BOP versions are cheap and plentiful. Personally I have always hated the 2-3 shift on 727's and tweaking the band. The 2-3 shift is all about timing to avoid overlap and you can find the sweet spot by understanding the front clutch clearance, springs and the kickdown lever ratio and adjustment. The 4.2 lever is the best all around IMO, the rest comes from experience but a good 727 trans guy should know this.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Iowan]
#2391071
10/22/17 04:02 AM
10/22/17 04:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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CRT, Pro Trans, ATI,T/A,A&A and a lot of others Three choices on the front drum beside stock, aluminum, alunimum with a steel liner and all steel
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: mopar dave]
#2391234
10/22/17 02:24 PM
10/22/17 02:24 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
master
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master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488
northern,Ohio,USA
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Keith knows a thing or two about transmissions. Bought my aluminum drum from him as well as some other parts. I like Copes rmv bodies with rear band apply. I wonder about these new vb'd lba and if they were ever test on a bench or dyno to verify there correct function.[delay in shift 1 to 2 correctly.cause effect]
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dvw]
#2391264
10/22/17 03:04 PM
10/22/17 03:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/22/17 03:06 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Porter67]
#2391289
10/22/17 03:44 PM
10/22/17 03:44 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
master
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master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488
northern,Ohio,USA
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I wonder about these new vb'd lba and if they were ever test on a bench or dyno to verify there correct function.[delay in shift 1 to 2 correctly.cause effect]
Are you meaning copes brand or that type VB overall? Any brand,The racers seem to be the test bed for a new product to work out the bug most of the time.
Last edited by Clanton; 10/22/17 03:46 PM.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: mopar dave]
#2391290
10/22/17 03:45 PM
10/22/17 03:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,678 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,678
W. Kentucky
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so why would anyone pay more for the super sprag if they break too? save your money and just install a bolt in stock type then and use an aftermarket drum. That's what I did.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Scully]
#2391295
10/22/17 03:58 PM
10/22/17 03:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290 Cincinnati, Ohio
d7cook
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Cincinnati, Ohio
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It's kind of funny a year ago I posted the question about using a turbo 400 behind my big block and was told to stick with the 727 even by Monty. GM Trannies explode too IF they are not built right or are abused. Any trans can be a time bomb if abused with the wrong parts. Th400 main problem is tossing into nuetral across the stripe. Unless you have a valve body deigned to do it. 123n. I currently run one. Easy to build. BOP versions are cheap and plentiful. Personally I have always hated the 2-3 shift on 727's and tweaking the band. The 2-3 shift is all about timing to avoid overlap and you can find the sweet spot by understanding the front clutch clearance, springs and the kickdown lever ratio and adjustment. The 4.2 lever is the best all around IMO, the rest comes from experience but a good 727 trans guy should know this. Ironically one way to make a th400 bullet prof is to go sprag less which I think griner developed the vb for but...... The 2-3 shift becomes about timing to avoid overlap.
1967 Coronet, 1989 Daytona tube chassis.
Former cars, 66 Charger, 67 R/T, 69 Coronet, 67 Dart GT.
-Banned for life from V8Buick.com-
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: justinp61]
#2391297
10/22/17 04:00 PM
10/22/17 04:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Did anyone ever check to see if ATI makes a 727 aftermarket case. My ATI Case is very heavy duty and comes with a steel safety liner that slides down into the pump
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Clanton]
#2391301
10/22/17 04:04 PM
10/22/17 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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Ive an aa or aaa? I think cope uses his own now? And ive never noticed a delay at the track or street when hooked, if im horsing around and blow the drag radials off I can hear the 1-2 shift in the motor but its not enough to make the tach needle drop, by then im already in 2nd at 7200, about a second and a half but I always run it out when I do and it gently hooks, I never let off abruptly. Do the data loggers show the delay? I wonder about these new vb'd lba and if they were ever test on a bench or dyno to verify there correct function.[delay in shift 1 to 2 correctly.cause effect]
Are you meaning copes brand or that type VB overall? Any brand,The racers seem to be the test bed for a new product to work out the bug most of the time.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dvw]
#2391306
10/22/17 04:16 PM
10/22/17 04:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 199 PA
Scully
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 199
PA
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If it has a good drum it doesn't matter if the low roller gives up the ghost or not. I've seen low rollers break with low band apply. I have also seen Super Sprag's break. Doug The sprag can still break from the shock but the drum wont explode. I broke the sprag in my race car on the line testing at my local track because I broke an axle but still drove the car back to the pits and on to the trailer. It was just 4 days before I had to leave for the Keystone Nats. I had to overnight axles from Strange, repair the trans and set up a new rear as the axle broke at the spline and got into the carrier bearings, all while working a night job as well as my machine shop, 5 am Thurs morn I pulled out for the Keys and ran a good race but I was tired for sure.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2391351
10/22/17 06:22 PM
10/22/17 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,471 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,471
Minnesota
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How much does it cost to add a billet front drum, lba valve body, and an ultra-spraig, compared to a similar build with out those safety measures?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2391356
10/22/17 06:32 PM
10/22/17 06:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
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How much does it cost to add a billet front drum, lba valve body, and an ultra-spraig, compared to a similar build with out those safety measures? quite a bit , drum is US$7 or 800 I think . Sprag around US$100 . Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Scully]
#2391359
10/22/17 06:39 PM
10/22/17 06:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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The 2-3 shift is all about timing to avoid overlap
In reality you can't avoid all overlap, some is necessary to prevent rpm flare up on the shift. That's why the TF will always be inferior to a trans like the TH400 that has no release/apply cycle.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: mopar dave]
#2391370
10/22/17 07:11 PM
10/22/17 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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so why would anyone pay more for the super sprag if they break too? save your money and just install a bolt in stock type then and use an aftermarket drum. Not to be a smart azz but, I was told years ago that if a human built it it WILL eventually break,, When I built my 727 for the 512 I took all the knowledge that I had learned and applied it, Super sprag and a steel drum and Copes awesome new transbrke VB and a complete re-hash of everything inside the case.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2391388
10/22/17 07:30 PM
10/22/17 07:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Did anyone ever check to see if ATI makes a 727 aftermarket case. My ATI Case is very heavy duty and comes with a steel safety liner that slides down into the pump Somebody could make them but I have never seen an aftermarket 727 or 904 case. I would sure like a SFI approved 904 case. Bill
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: rickraw]
#2391476
10/22/17 10:13 PM
10/22/17 10:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596 Mass.
80fbody
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
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There was a pic posted on here yrs ago. It got pretty tore up but, I don't thing the driver go hurt. With a billet drum, shield & smart driving worries should be over. Ya, a billet drum is gonna be on my list when I go trans brake in the near future hopefully.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2391630
10/23/17 06:10 AM
10/23/17 06:10 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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It can get expensive to upgrade the 727. I used the A&A Ultimate sprag ($195), Billet Steel front drum ($550), Billet aluminum rear drum ($250) Note this was mostly for clearance with the billet front drum. Billet Steel 4-pinion front planetary gear ($499) The splines in my stock aluminum gear were cracked and falling out. CRT reverse manual valve body with low band apply ($275). That is $1769 to start with. A modified race pump with max lug gears ($315), lightened sun shell ($165), Deep aluminum trans pan ($175), billet front servo ($83.00), 4.2:1 band lever ($25), Billet strut ($19), billet strut anchor ($34), Billet low reverse servo ($48), billet accumulator (), rebuild kit(), alto read eagle clutches and kolene steels(), vent relocation (), Bands (), more stuff I forget...
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2391633
10/23/17 07:16 AM
10/23/17 07:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
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It can get expensive to upgrade the 727. I used the A&A Ultimate sprag ($195), Billet Steel front drum ($550), Billet aluminum rear drum ($250) Note this was mostly for clearance with the billet front drum. Billet Steel 4-pinion front planetary gear ($499) The splines in my stock aluminum gear were cracked and falling out. CRT reverse manual valve body with low band apply ($275). That is $1769 to start with. A modified race pump with max lug gears ($315), lightened sun shell ($165), Deep aluminum trans pan ($175), billet front servo ($83.00), 4.2:1 band lever ($25), Billet strut ($19), billet strut anchor ($34), Billet low reverse servo ($48), billet accumulator (), rebuild kit(), alto read eagle clutches and kolene steels(), vent relocation (), Bands (), more stuff I forget... A good drum and a decent valve body will last forever in a low 10 second car with stock components. My 9.0 car runs stock 3 pin planet carriers, pump gears, shafts, and servos, Factory 518 truck pan, 3.8 stock lever. You can reinforce the stock strut with 10 minutes work, same with modifying the pump feed, relocating the vent. Rabestoes tan clutches in my low 10 second car went over 1000 passes. In fact the only non stock components were a Turbo Action non/LBA valve body, good drum, deep truck pan. Doug
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: J_BODY]
#2391717
10/23/17 11:54 AM
10/23/17 11:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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Doug pretty much nailed it.... got a street/strip ride, put the drum in. I did that 2 years go, billet drums are cheap compared to the loss of a foot.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2391718
10/23/17 11:58 AM
10/23/17 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Doesn't look like the blanket did a very good job of containing it w/ the size of the hole in the floor.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2391726
10/23/17 12:19 PM
10/23/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
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Doesn't look like the blanket did a very good job of containing it w/ the size of the hole in the floor. My bet is that straps that go to the bell housing bolts were too long or not installed allowing the blanket to slide rearward. Doug
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dvw]
#2391736
10/23/17 12:32 PM
10/23/17 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Doesn't look like the blanket did a very good job of containing it w/ the size of the hole in the floor. My bet is that straps that go to the bell housing bolts were too long or not installed allowing the blanket to slide rearward. Doug Probably so. Or if it was a Lofgren Blanket, which only has 2 straps that wrap around/under the trans, the straps were either damaged or the transmission broke apart so there was nothing for it to hold onto.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2391740
10/23/17 12:39 PM
10/23/17 12:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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Probably so. Or if it was a Lofgren Blanket, which only has 2 straps that wrap around/under the trans, the straps were either damaged or the transmission broke apart so there was nothing for it to hold onto.
^^ This, I didn't get a pic, but when they jacked the car up, the blanket emptied out like a coin purse. I will be upgrading my drum this winter and swapping to a LBA VB
Last edited by OUTLAWD; 10/23/17 04:22 PM.
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2391835
10/23/17 03:04 PM
10/23/17 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,471 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,471
Minnesota
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Do you suppose if this guy could go back in time and spend $1200 to make his tranny explosion proof, would he do it?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: DoubleD]
#2391864
10/23/17 03:39 PM
10/23/17 03:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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You just have to remember that stock drum could be as old as 50 years old and has seen how much abuse before it became a race part ?? Pretty cheap insurance to get a billet drum. I know a lot of old school guys who have never blown one up - mainly because they learned early on how to drive them right. But I think using a stock drum with the available parts we have today is just asking for issues. A well known brand X Transmission builder always told me you MOPAR guys will spend $20K on an engine and $1,000 bucks on a transmission - and then complain when you break it ! I had a guy at the track the other night tell me that "A lot of guy's budgets stop at the flexplate" The light bulb usually comes on after the fact.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: DoubleD]
#2391866
10/23/17 03:41 PM
10/23/17 03:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 500 MD
JACK1440
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 500
MD
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You just have to remember that stock drum could be as old as 50 years old and has seen how much abuse before it became a race part ?? Pretty cheap insurance to get a billet drum. I know a lot of old school guys who have never blown one up - mainly because they learned early on how to drive them right. But I think using a stock drum with the available parts we have today is just asking for issues. A well known brand X Transmission builder always told me you MOPAR guys will spend $20K on an engine and $1,000 bucks on a transmission - and then complain when you break it ! wise words... I'm not breaking my aluminum block because of a tranny
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: DoubleD]
#2391872
10/23/17 03:51 PM
10/23/17 03:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
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A well known brand X Transmission builder always told me you MOPAR guys will spend $20K on an engine and $1,000 bucks on a transmission - and then complain when you break it ! I've had Mopar trans guys tell me the same thing. I talked a buddy of mine into doing the sprag and drum in his street car. He didn't want a manual valve body so no lba. Didn't want to see him break his foot.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Tempest]
#2391932
10/23/17 05:28 PM
10/23/17 05:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,799 Connecticut
FurryStump
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,799
Connecticut
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Asking this question again for clarification. If one does not have an aftermarket drum and LBA, will launching car in 2nd avoid (for the most part) this issue? if the trans has the capability of auto shift, no. Shifter in 2nd will still be in low.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Adobedude]
#2391951
10/23/17 06:04 PM
10/23/17 06:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,904 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,904
U.S.S.A.
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Low band apply valve body. Billet steel drum. Bolt in sprag.
At least I hope that will, that's what I have. others beat me to it ...... If that bolt in sprag is not the $$ A+A or Coan it's a waste of money and time. The generic run of the mill bolt is is to fix a loose outer race. Also as said, if you doesn't have a full manual valve body (NO AUTO SHIFT AT ALL) putting the shifter in 2 still starts the trans in low WITHOUT the band applied, put that auto shift lever in 1 though will apply the band.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2392031
10/23/17 09:17 PM
10/23/17 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
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I've been emailing this guy about the blanket he offers, I saw his car at a car show. His blanket is not cheap, but it sounds like a perfect fitting piece that is bullet proof and covers everything. His email is chpenterprise@neo.rr.com Phone number is 330-584-8045.
I do not know him and I have not seen his blanket yet.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2392034
10/23/17 09:21 PM
10/23/17 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,916
Akron, Ohio
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Last edited by ProSport; 11/05/17 11:27 PM.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2392066
10/23/17 10:16 PM
10/23/17 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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I ran 904's for years with out incident, when I built my BB and knew that a 727 was to be used I started making a list, and the first item was a billet steel drum and ultimate sprag, when I was done, my invoice's from CRT was real close to 2500.00 in parts,, now I have one less worry and my feet and legs thanked me for doing the right thing.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2392085
10/23/17 11:07 PM
10/23/17 11:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 201 Illinois
gearhead01
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 201
Illinois
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So,who is running a blanket on strip/street car.
I would like to go with a carbon fiber shield, but not sure it will fit in a Volare/Roadrunner, 440/727.
I am sure a blanket will fit, but not sure about heat build up driving to/from the track of 35 miles each way.
Thanks, John
1971 Satellite Sebring Plus - 14.46 @ 95.43 1977 Road Runner - N/B 11.02@ 119 Drag Radials
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: ProSport]
#2392130
10/24/17 12:38 AM
10/24/17 12:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,350 Aurora, Oh.
max_maniac
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,350
Aurora, Oh.
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I've been emailing this guy about the blanket he offers, I saw his car at a car show. His blanket is not cheap, but it sounds like a perfect fitting piece that is bullet proof and covers everything. His email is chpenterprise@neo.rr.com Phone number is 330-584-8045.
I do not know him and I have not seen his blanket yet. Dave and I saw his blanket and talked to him at 42. This blanket is the real deal - it is SFI approved and made with Kevlar and I think he has a patent on it. Fits over the bell housing too and looks awesome. He is proud of it by the price but something Dave and I both may look into purchasing.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: gearhead01]
#2392167
10/24/17 02:24 AM
10/24/17 02:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
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So,who is running a blanket on strip/street car.
I would like to go with a carbon fiber shield, but not sure it will fit in a Volare/Roadrunner, 440/727.
I am sure a blanket will fit, but not sure about heat build up driving to/from the track of 35 miles each way.
Thanks, John Just ordered the DJ Safety blanket , specific for TF727 . Got the shorty , I think it only covers up to the pump . But the new trans does also have a billet drum lba etc . Better be ok , I drive it every day Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dizuster]
#2392238
10/24/17 10:59 AM
10/24/17 10:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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I had a blanket on my car with two coolers, couldn't get stuck in traffic or go rounds with it or you'd overheat. Went to a carbon shield and it fixed all the problems. This is what concerns me...I drive my car...ALOT...I think I will end up with a CF shield
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: JohnRR]
#2392279
10/24/17 12:17 PM
10/24/17 12:17 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260 New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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Low band apply valve body. Billet steel drum. Bolt in sprag.
At least I hope that will, that's what I have. others beat me to it ...... If that bolt in sprag is not the $$ A+A or Coan it's a waste of money and time. The generic run of the mill bolt is is to fix a loose outer race. Also as said, if you doesn't have a full manual valve body (NO AUTO SHIFT AT ALL) putting the shifter in 2 still starts the trans in low WITHOUT the band applied, put that auto shift lever in 1 though will apply the band. It's reverse manual Cope 727, it's going back to him this winter for a freshen up, I'll talk to him.
2001 Dodge Dakota 408 All Motor 11.27 @ 117.83 mph 2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: J_BODY]
#2392307
10/24/17 01:23 PM
10/24/17 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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thinking of my old Lofgren blanket I see absolutely no conceivable way that it could attribute to increased trans temps. I'd still run it if the rules didn't require more for sub 10 passes. I used to have a Lofgren blanket in the cuda before I went to the CSR shield. Never had a problem w/ either one, but I don't have a trans temp gauge either. The Lofgren blanket is pretty small...really doubt it would cause a heat issue.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2392338
10/24/17 02:13 PM
10/24/17 02:13 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675 Mi.
G-Money1320
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
Mi.
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I run a stock drum with a Turbo Action non LBA VB in my car and have for many years with no issues so far, but I know I need to upgrade to a better drum. I talked to Rick Allison this year about his drums and my VB and he said the drum is definitely needed but the VB is ok. I start my burnout in 1st gear but shift it right away into second. I also have a bolt in sprag and Lofgren blanket. BTW the VB is a forward pattern. Makes me think I need to upgrade the sprag when I change the drum.
416 stroker from Nick at Compu-flow. 11.14 in full street trim. Seems like a new best every time out. 11.06 open headers----so far!!
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: G-Money1320]
#2392340
10/24/17 02:16 PM
10/24/17 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,289 NE Ohio
DoubleD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,289
NE Ohio
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I start my burnout in 1st gear but shift it right away into second. You are already on borrowed time - never start the burn-out in first gear - start in second shift to third
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2392356
10/24/17 02:51 PM
10/24/17 02:51 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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I'm not sure why my trans has lasted so long but I was told from the start to roll through the water and do your burnout at the very edge of the water, get the slicks hot enough to dry when you roll forward. I have always started burn out in second. I did a dry hop and staged. No problem thousands of pass's.
Are drag radials that much different than slicks?
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: ProSport]
#2392497
10/24/17 07:31 PM
10/24/17 07:31 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210 robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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I've been emailing this guy about the blanket he offers, I saw his car at a car show. His blanket is not cheap, but it sounds like a perfect fitting piece that is bullet proof and covers everything. His email is chpenterprise@neo.rr.com Phone number is 330-584-8045.
I do not know him and I have not seen his blanket yet. Coming from Nottingham, England i'm curious to know why he calls himself Robin Hood. Lol
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: RHB]
#2392610
10/24/17 10:32 PM
10/24/17 10:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 989 Addison,IL
OUTLAWSSAA
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 989
Addison,IL
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Sure glad to hear he is ok. I am the guy in NE. Ohio that DoubleD was referring too. When a transmission blows like this it is a literal BOMB! I have researched this problem for the last 2 years. All the engineers I have conversed with (all of the major ballistic material suppliers), all agreed that this is a extreme condition and would require some very serious material. I will say this: metal hood types allow parts to escape forwards (towards your feet) and backwards to the tail housing. Carbon fiber usually works "IF" you have Alum. drums. Steel drums can and do shatter carbon fiber. Billet drums are "NOT" the total solution! Using billet drums allows them to spin faster before exploding. Unfortunately since spinning faster they release even more energy than a stock drum. Therefore causing a even larger explosion. Something to think about. If that blanket costs you $400, then the manufacturer's cost was half or less than half of that to make a profit. Part of that half cost is packaging, buckles, strapping, an outside covering and labor to sew it together. So how much actual ballistic material are you really getting for your money???? Now go look at ballistic materials and their costs. You also have to know how much of it "layers" (there are many, many types of Kevlar and others) will pass the SFI test. Now go to the SFI Foundation site and look up what it takes to pass their test. Better yet go look up the military test standard they use (MIL-STD-662D-V50). If you would like to explore this subject further email me here. I beg to differ with you on the drum statement. There was a magazine article that covered the billet steel 4140 drum that Rick at A&A came out with. They tested it on some sort of a spin tester and I believe it went to 36,000rpm before they stopped it, and there was nothing,no cracks, no flaws, nothing. So even if your shifting at 10,000 and your sprage lets go, your still covered.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: FurryStump]
#2392788
10/25/17 09:42 AM
10/25/17 09:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 595 Nashville, Tennessee
Tempest
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 595
Nashville, Tennessee
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Asking this question again for clarification. If one does not have an aftermarket drum and LBA, will launching car in 2nd avoid (for the most part) this issue? if the trans has the capability of auto shift, no. Shifter in 2nd will still be in low. No I meant a manual VB in a high HP/TQ car. I don't know who built my trans, so I tend to launch it and do burnouts in 2nd. It's a pro street car with a lot of gear and a decent amount of stall. It leaves pretty good in 2nd, just wanted to confirm or not if this method reduces the possibility of this situation.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Tempest]
#2393165
10/26/17 12:22 AM
10/26/17 12:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Asking this question again for clarification. If one does not have an aftermarket drum and LBA, will launching car in 2nd avoid (for the most part) this issue? if the trans has the capability of auto shift, no. Shifter in 2nd will still be in low. No I meant a manual VB in a high HP/TQ car. I don't know who built my trans, so I tend to launch it and do burnouts in 2nd. It's a pro street car with a lot of gear and a decent amount of stall. It leaves pretty good in 2nd, just wanted to confirm or not if this method reduces the possibility of this situation. Wait.... You Launch the car in 2nd??.... with a manual VB 727 ?? Why would you do that?
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2393192
10/26/17 01:13 AM
10/26/17 01:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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I've purposely kept quiet on this post, but I'm one of the geezers who have been racing the same Hemi Dodge for almost 50 (48 years, actually) years with no incidents. In fact, I can only recall even seeing two incidents over those years, both caused by driver error.
I still use a "J" converter, a Cheetah VB. standard stuff. It was pounded into my head back in the day the cause for trans explosions, and to always check after a first gear drive line failure, or excessive spinning. The easiest way to check is to pull the driveshaft, put a driveshaft yoke into the rear of the trans, and spin it. It should only spin one way easily. If it spins both ways easily, the sprag is turned and it's got come apart. I have always started my burnouts in second, and then go to high. I use first gear only to put it on the trailer, or to pull it into the garage, or to leave the starting line where it's pulled second real quick. Not hard, just pay attention.
I can't help but notice that some of the cars on here who complain about it happening are dual purpose, street/strip cars. To me, that is probably a lot of their issue. Go out on the street, blow the tires off of it in low gear, take it the track, and then, pow. My guess is that in a lot of cases, that is what happened. I'm sure there are some explosions that are legitimate, but, to be frank, I've never seen one that didn't have an explanation for it. Now, I'm sure that there will be a pile of you on here who start arguing with me. That's OK, whatever. Do whatever you think is necessary. But, one can save themselves a lot of hassle and money by just doing it the right way.
But, when I hear guys saying how they are scared to drive one, that's a bit over the top. It's not like jumping into a combat zone with the 82nd Airborne. Just know what you are doing and pay attention. Not hard.
Of course, there were also the neutral starts we played with back in the late sixties, but, that's another story....Dick Oldfield and Ron Mancini can tell you all about them....
Last edited by Steve1118; 10/26/17 01:50 AM.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2393221
10/26/17 02:18 AM
10/26/17 02:18 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,182 aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,182
aZLiViN
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having been around the results personally (friends car luckily), none of our rides hit the track after that without a steel drum and blanket or shield. If you are racing with a 727, you really don't want this to happen. We were fortunate that Chuck Lofgren was at the track that weekend and came by and educated us on the whole deal as we did not have a clue as to what happened (good ole pre internet days ) Prior to this happening I had been street racing for a couple years and track racing for only a couple. I had broken a ring gear when I had a 8.75 rear in my Mirada. Not knowing any better we simply threw in another gear set and went on our way.... got lucky. I'm proof like many that it doesn't happen every time.... but knowing what we all know now, it's not worth the risk IMHO.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Steve1118]
#2393296
10/26/17 11:51 AM
10/26/17 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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I still use a "J" converter, a Cheetah VB. standard stuff. It was pounded into my head back in the day the cause for trans explosions, and to always check after a first gear drive line failure, or excessive spinning. The easiest way to check is to pull the driveshaft, put a driveshaft yoke into the rear of the trans, and spin it. It should only spin one way easily. If it spins both ways easily, the sprag is turned and it's got come apart.
Huh, didn't know that
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: Steve1118]
#2393397
10/26/17 03:34 PM
10/26/17 03:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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The easiest way to check is to pull the driveshaft, put a driveshaft yoke into the rear of the trans, and spin it. It should only spin one way easily. If it spins both ways easily, the sprag is turned and it's got come apart. Many sprag failures might seem to be sudden but they're usually preceded by flattening of the rollers. A sprag with several flattened rollers might pass the "turn it backwards" test (which is highly judgemental) but might still be in distress. The only way to positively judge the condition of the sprag is a periodic visual inspection. A lot of us old-timers used to abuse the sprag and never have a failure but there's a difference between doing it wrong and getting away with it and doing it right....I'm one of the lucky ones who did it wrong out of ignorance. No excuse in this day and age.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: NANKET]
#2393537
10/26/17 09:42 PM
10/26/17 09:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 199 PA
Scully
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 199
PA
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Like Steve 1118 says, watch what you are doing. Back in the day thats all we had, there was no LBA manual valve body. The was no updated drum that was reasonably priced, so nobody used them. Remember the 1980's! All the old days 727 racers are not limping around. I got my first B&M LBA manual valve body in 72, I think they started making them around 68.
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: dustergirl340]
#2395287
10/30/17 12:11 PM
10/30/17 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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Ah, the voice of reason from Brother Bob. Different applications call for different things. But, Torqueflites are good, good trans.
I'm still getting around OK, despite racing a torqueflite for all these years. Except for some arthritis and a little gout, the knees and feet still work OK. I spent many, many years watching Bagwell, Marshall, BG, and many other Hemi and Maxie SS cars make thousands of passes over the years with no issue by doing what I do. Don't forget, most of that stuff wasn't around back then. Make more HP, better chassis, and all and of course the demands are different. A blanket is like belts and harness, helmet, anything else. Should always be on there, just in case.
The problem I have with threads like this is that everything gets worked up so the average kid bracket racing his 440 Road Runner has the mindset of an infantryman going into a firefight.
It's not necessary. You've got kids scared to death, and spending money they don't have. So, they never get to the track. Some of the guys here are very free with others' money.
Just pay attention...do it the right way, and you won't have any problem. Get the right product for the application, use good parts. . If you have a dual purpose car with big HP, which seems to be the in thing, and you are running around laying tire in low gear all the time to impress the local kiddies, you'd better be careful. For what it's worth, the trans in my car is the same one BG did for me a long, long time ago. Change fluid, maintain, and pay attention. True in everything. Works everytime
Last edited by Steve1118; 10/30/17 12:20 PM.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: B G Racing]
#2395451
10/30/17 04:02 PM
10/30/17 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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If you insist on using a stock drum on anything above a mid ten second race car then I suggest you use the best shield you can find.
I wouldn't base drum selection on ET. A twelve-second car that is capable of 8000+ rpm on a free-wind overspeed can explode a stock drum.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 explosion at Milan last night....
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2395892
10/31/17 08:16 AM
10/31/17 08:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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If you insist on using a stock drum on anything above a mid ten second race car then I suggest you use the best shield you can find.
I wouldn't base drum selection on ET. A twelve-second car that is capable of 8000+ rpm on a free-wind overspeed can explode a stock drum. We are not basing in on ET alone read all of the statement that includes proper technique and safty equipment.The last statement your quoting is a caution and suggestion.We all know what will happen if RPM is exceeded in low or second gear and the overrunning clutch fails(which it will)I learn a long time ago no one can guard against stupidity and if a person can't use common sence he should run a complete containment shield around himself for all the "what ifs" that can happen.If a person free winds a 12 second car it's because he has done something stupid. Respectfully Bob
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