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All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) #2389472
10/18/17 07:49 PM
10/18/17 07:49 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Barring any new "challenge" pops up that is a bleepin' show-stopper to my trip to VT this weekend, the next incarnation of The MoPig's engine will be flogged on Dwayne Porter's dyno this Saturday. luck

Everybody loves a good "Guess they dyno results!" thread, so I'll put out all the details for you to come up w/ your #s.

>>>>>>>>>>

I. I'm working off the same 440 + .060" (452) short block as before, but...
- It's got a fresh hone, and I changed from Total Seal "Gapless Top" rings to conventional rings gapped at .020" top / .024" second
- The ring pack also changed to use a Napier 2nd ring, and the oil rings have a little less tension than the last "standard" tension set... 16-18# vs 20-22#, IIRC
- I've made a few tweaks to improve oil control (Milodon "Street Hemi" style w/ windage tray, added a crank scraper, and had some additional oil-return baffles welded in the pan)
- New Eagle 4340 crank, instead of my old OEM piece
- BHJ SFI balancer that I sent back to BHJ to "rebuild" before putting it back into service
- After break-in, it'll have 10w40 in it, whereas I used to run 20w50


II. The heads are standard-port Edelbrock Victors that Dwayne Porter finished for me.
- The heads were originally used by Brian at IMM for a 400 build-up, but he pulled them off after dynoing that combination and I ended up buying them some years later
- I had Hughes do their CNC chamber work
- Dwayne did the porting and a touch-up to Brian's valve job
- Avg CSA is 2.76" and Min CSA is 2.65" (presuming I did the measurements & calcs correctly)

Flow results (because EVERYBODY knows that flow #s tell you EXACTLY how much power an engine is going to make, right? laugh2 )

INTAKE -
0.100 -- 75
0.200 -- 151
0.300 -- 220
0.400 -- 280
0.500 -- 326
0.550 -- 338
0.600 -- 346
0.650 -- 350
0.700 -- 355

EXHAUST --- w/ 2" pipe added
0.100 -- 55
0.200 -- 116
0.300 -- 155
0.400 -- 194
0.500 -- 211 -- 238
0.550 -- 222 -- 249
0.600 -- 231 -- 259
0.650 -- 237 -- 267
0.700 -- 243 -- 274

Oh, the chambers are smaller than my old Stage VIs, which has bumped up the CR from about 10.8 to just under 11.5. We'll be using pump 93 E10 w/ a blend of race fuel to increase the octane some.


III. Cam specs

Oh, boy... my first venture into solid roller territory whistling , whereas I used to run solid flat-tappet cams.

Dwayne recommended a COMP RX roller, a moderately aggressive endurance lobe which he's said has been very successful for his customers looking for decent valve train life when running a solid roller. Since mine is a limited-use dual-purpose application, we didn't want to go w/ a "spring killer".

As measured in my block w/ .800"-wheel lifters:
@ .020" - 300
@ .050" - 266
@ .100" - 233
@ .200" - 184
@ .300" - 134
@ .400" - 68

Lobe lift -- .434"
Net measured lift after lash w/ 600# open spring loads: ~.655"
LSA -------- 108 installed on 104 ICL
Lash ------- .018" hot

Other valve train stuff:
- B.A.M. "Pro Series" roller lifters running in bronze-bushed lifter bores w/ oil-feed holes
- Smith Bros. adjusting screws & 3/8" x .120"-wall pushrods
- Hughes Engines rocker arms
- RAS rocker shafts
- PAC 1243 springs w/ 240#s at 1.90" installed height, ~ 600#s open
- Pro Gear double-roller timing set w/ 9-position crank gear


IV. Induction

Carb... See my other post w/ the options being considered for testing.

Intake... It was originally going to be a modified Edelbrock Victor 440 with the same plenum mods as I've done before w/ good results, but I ended up w/ a Trick Flow intake to try out
- The Trick Flow isn't 100% out-of-the-box, but the work I did to it was only some basic plenum & runner casting cleanup (not even port matched), and making sure any spacers wouldn't have a ledge sticking out from the carb mounting pad interfering w/ the fuel/air mix outta the carb
- I've got various 1/2" and 1" spacers (open, "Super Sucker") to try out, even though I may not be able to use a 1"-tall spacer as installed in the car


V. Exhaust

On the dyno, Hooker 2" Super Comps w/ 3.5" x 18" collector extensions

FWIW, on the car, TTI 2" with an X-pipe about 20" after the collectors and a full 3" exhaust system thru tailpipes to the back bumper. My TTIs don't fit Dwayne's dyno setup, and Hooker 2" Super Comps don't fit an E-body w/ an RB & heads with raised exhaust ports (at least not w/o significant mods).


VI. Misc "stuff"

Well... that's everything I can pull up for background info for this post.

Oh, the rules: (Rules???)
1. Ya' gotta give both the peak HP and torque, AND the peak RPMs for each... just to make it a little more interesting.

2. Give one set of #s for the baseline carb as described in the other post, and one set for whatever you think "the best" of the other carbs tested makes.

NO, I don't know what that carb will be at this point, so it's up to you to think about what you see as potential improvements -- if any -- from the different carbs listed in the other thread.


VII. "Winners!" boogie

1. The person who gets the closest using the baseline carb and a 1/2" open spacer (since I know that size spacer will fit in the car)

2. The person who gets the closest using "the best" carb TBD (that's "To Be Determined" for anyone not familiar w/ the term) and whatever spacer works best with it

Prize?
=> Uhhhh.... maybe I can find a cool t-shirt or something to send to the two folks who get closest. Maybe a gift certificate to a commonly-used parts supplier?

Seriously, I do want to give something here to "incentive-ize" the challenge... work

Oh, the restrictions: (Restrictions???)
1. If I blow it up on the dyno before getting a full set of GOOD data, ya' get NOTHING... except the opportunity to listen to me complain about blowing up my sh!t after all these years waiting to get it back together.

2. Ummmm... yeah, that's the only one that comes to mind at the moment


If everything goes according to plan, I'll have my data by late Saturday, but won't likely be able to post it up until either late Sunday after getting home, or possibly not until Monday.

apimp

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389486
10/18/17 08:27 PM
10/18/17 08:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,843
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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CSK  Offline
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Pattison Texas
base line carb 656 hp @ 6500 , 609 tq @ 5000

best carb 678 hp @ 6600, 617 tq @ 5000


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: CSK] #2389556
10/18/17 10:15 PM
10/18/17 10:15 PM
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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Charleston
BL 665@6800. TQ 580@5200
Best 681@6800 TQ 595@5200


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389570
10/18/17 10:44 PM
10/18/17 10:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Charlotte, North Carolina
Base HP 675@6100 TQ 600@5150
Best HP 700@6300 TQ 615@5200

So far, I hope I win, for your sake.
P.S. Don't blow up.


[image][/image]
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389575
10/18/17 10:47 PM
10/18/17 10:47 PM
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Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I'm gonna say.......solidly under 1000..... but also solidly over 400 smile


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: fast68plymouth] #2389606
10/18/17 11:29 PM
10/18/17 11:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Prize update: Each winner gets a $25 Summit Gift Card.

As much $$$ as I've spent to get to this point, what's another $50 to make it more interesting to others!

Carry on...

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389607
10/18/17 11:30 PM
10/18/17 11:30 PM
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Posts: 199
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Scully Offline
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What type of dyno will be used.

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: Scully] #2389615
10/18/17 11:52 PM
10/18/17 11:52 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
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BradH  Offline OP
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
SuperFlow 901(?), but I don't remember if Dwayne said the software package has been upgraded since when I was there 10++ years ago.

To get a sense for how "happy" it is or isn't, the old version of this same engine made about 610 HP and pushed my 3750# car & driver to mid 10s at 126 MPH in full street trim. The track is close to sea level, so the #s do reflect that.

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389624
10/19/17 12:08 AM
10/19/17 12:08 AM
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Posts: 3,675
South San Francisco, Ca
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South San Francisco, Ca
Base line 661 HP @ 6300, 612 TQ @ 5100
Best 685 HP @ 6600, 618 TQ @ 5200


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4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389644
10/19/17 12:32 AM
10/19/17 12:32 AM
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Posts: 11,678
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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justinp61  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
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W. Kentucky
Base, 681 HP @ 6500, 644 TQ @ 5000
Best, 704 HP @ 6600, 648 TQ @ 5000

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389646
10/19/17 12:33 AM
10/19/17 12:33 AM
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Scully Offline
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Originally Posted By BradH
SuperFlow 901(?), but I don't remember if Dwayne said the software package has been upgraded since when I was there 10++ years ago.

To get a sense for how "happy" it is or isn't, the old version of this same engine made about 610 HP and pushed my 3750# car & driver to mid 10s at 126 MPH in full street trim. The track is close to sea level, so the #s do reflect that.

If that was through mufflers,the 610 number is probably pretty close. I have a 901 but the dyno cell isn't finished yet. I want to accurately calibrate it and get the engine from my race car on it so I can have some reference factors for the engines I build.

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389658
10/19/17 12:50 AM
10/19/17 12:50 AM
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Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Just don't let Dwayne reach under the console.....


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: Scully] #2389720
10/19/17 09:01 AM
10/19/17 09:01 AM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By Scully
Originally Posted By BradH
SuperFlow 901(?), but I don't remember if Dwayne said the software package has been upgraded since when I was there 10++ years ago.

To get a sense for how "happy" it is or isn't, the old version of this same engine made about 610 HP and pushed my 3750# car & driver to mid 10s at 126 MPH in full street trim. The track is close to sea level, so the #s do reflect that.

If that was through mufflers,the 610 number is probably pretty close...

Yep: 610 HP & 570 torque on the dyno with open headers and my mechanical water pump; full 3" TTI x-pipe system to the rear bumper thru Dynomax Ultraflows, plus ailternator drag... I figured about a 4% loss as installed in the car.

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #2389721
10/19/17 09:03 AM
10/19/17 09:03 AM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By CompWedgeEngines
Just don't let Dwayne reach under the console.....

haha

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389727
10/19/17 09:25 AM
10/19/17 09:25 AM
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Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
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646 hp @ 6300 rpm
596 tq @ 5000 rpm with baseline carb

651 hp @ 6300 rpm
599 tq @ 5000 rpm with better carb

Your 3.5" collectors are large for the app that's why the conservative TQ #'s. Assuming water temp and air temp are "normal" and not super cool. Good luck this should be interesting. J.Rob


2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
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Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389744
10/19/17 11:19 AM
10/19/17 11:19 AM
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MN
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MN
630 hp and 570 tq as baseline
660 hp @ 6700, 588 tq @ 5100 with.. carb 5 after reading Mark W reply lol. Good luck! I'm looking forward to the results.

I know what slow progress is like. I almost got my 446 together after 11 years ofsaving and hoarding


'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear
First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile

Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods

Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389766
10/19/17 12:03 PM
10/19/17 12:03 PM
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Posts: 5,155
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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639 HP @ 6400 and 589 ft lbs @ 4900 baseline

657 HP @ 6400 and 599 ft lbs @ 5000 with the best carb


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389778
10/19/17 12:38 PM
10/19/17 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
EDIT: blah

Last edited by BradH; 10/19/17 05:29 PM.
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: BradH] #2389793
10/19/17 12:59 PM
10/19/17 12:59 PM
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Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Renton Washington
BASE 669@6750 TQ 590@5250
BEST 689@6850 TQ 600@5250


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: All the specs to start your dyno #s guesses! 8^) [Re: Triple Threat] #2389798
10/19/17 01:07 PM
10/19/17 01:07 PM
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Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Not good at this but I'll say;

640 hp and 650 tq but sure would love to see a comparison w/an adapter and Dommy just for giggles...........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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