Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
#2388314
10/16/17 07:26 PM
10/16/17 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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OK, sometimes I can't help myself from posting this sort of stuff... even when I probably shouldn't for a variety of reasons. None the less... I have an ever-expanding collection of 4150-type carbs as listed below. As much as I'd like to throw each one on the engine dyno to see what's what, the reality of time constraints will likely limit testing to two, maybe 3, if any level of dialing in a particular carb is to be done. In addition, one carb that absolutely needs to be in the subset being tested is the #1 carb in the list, because that's the last baseline I have and what was run successfully on my car in the past. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. BG Race Demon RS set up w/ 1.42" venturi sleeves => previous tune as used on my car when it ran 10.5s as driven to the track ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So... that means you can pick two (2) of the remaining carbs listed. 2. BG Gold Claw set up w/ 1.50" venturi sleeves => new & untested config => pushing the limit for venturi size w/ downleg boosters that I believe will work well on my car 3. QFT/Proform 1.45" venturi main body used as basis for complete carb => original boosters; new & untested => Basically a Proform "950" with a better tune 4. QFT/Proform 1.52" venturi main body used as basis for complete carb => BLP modified boosters; new & untested; this is the limit for venturi size w/ downleg boosters I'll try => comparable to a QFT Race-Q 1000, which Quick Fuel used to win the small-block class in the last BLP Carb Challenge held a few years ago 5. QFT/Proform 1.59" venturi annular booster main body used as basis for complete carb => original boosters; new & untested => comparable to a QFT Race-Q 1050-AN, which AndyF said has been the best performing 4150 carb he's tested so far 6a. Holley Ultra HP/XP 1.60" venturi carb re-fitted with Mark Whitener's custom annular boosters => purchased from AndyF 'cuz I thought it looked "interesting" => Dominic "Thumper Carbs" worked on the tune to make it more driveable vs its original dyno tune 6b. Same as #6a, only with Holley Ultra HP/XP 1.56" venturi main body blended out to 1.58" and equipped with the same 12-hole annular boosters as the #5 carb => new & untested config => Mark Whitener's flow testing of a variety of carbs showed the modified Ultra HP/XP 1.56" (1.58") venturi main body flowed noticeably better than Holley's 1.60" venturi body... so I decided to build one ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do your votes really count towards what I run? Ummmm... nope. The final choices are still mine, but I'm interested in hearing people's feedback & thoughts on the subject, regardless. Before anyone says anything about it - right, no Dominators. I'm A$$uming most people are familiar w/ my junk, as much as I've posted over the years. If you're not, the $.05 tour will be brief: - 440 street/strip car - 3800#s w/ driver - pump fuel... that'll probably need to get spiked w/ some race gas cuz the CR is now up to 11.5 - 4500-stall converter - 4.10s - 275/60R15 DOT drag radials - Guess-timating the new combination will make... 650+ HP... and the car "should" be capable of running closer to 10.0s once sorted out OK, back to all the other stuff I have to deal with. - Brad
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388344
10/16/17 08:04 PM
10/16/17 08:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Send a carb to Dom and have him tune up it. Use that as your base carb.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388363
10/16/17 08:41 PM
10/16/17 08:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Is this testing going to be on a engine dyno or chassis dyno? Test the three biggest ones, #5 and 6A Are you going to change the jetting on all of them or not?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: madscientist]
#2388365
10/16/17 08:46 PM
10/16/17 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Send a carb to Dom and have him tune up it. Use that as your base carb. That would be 6a, as noted in the description. Also, 6b is 6a with a main body swap, not two separate carburetors. That's why they're not listed as 6 & 7.
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2388368
10/16/17 08:48 PM
10/16/17 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Is this testing going to be on a engine dyno or chassis dyno? Test the three biggest ones, #5 and 6A Are you going to change the jetting on all of them or not? Engine dyno. Bringing lots of brass, but time is always a factor.
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388384
10/16/17 09:16 PM
10/16/17 09:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
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Brad , #1 , 4 , 6b
#1 because it is a known unit . #4 bigger venturi same style . I ran a HP1000,1.56 venturi , on my 440 . Very happy, more power than my BG 825 #6b , a little bigger again . But if #4 shows improvement this will then show if annular is better for your motor . Then you will have to try them all again on the street / strip to confirm results .
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388394
10/16/17 09:25 PM
10/16/17 09:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Send a carb to Dom and have him tune up it. Use that as your base carb. That would be 6a, as noted in the description. Also, 6b is 6a with a main body swap, not two separate carburetors. That's why they're not listed as 6 & 7. Sorry, I flat missed that.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388460
10/16/17 11:22 PM
10/16/17 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,979 s. e. pa.
calrobb2000
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,979
s. e. pa.
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hi ,
i vote for trashing them all and using a holley 3 bbl !
Last edited by calrobb2000; 10/16/17 11:23 PM.
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388531
10/17/17 01:37 AM
10/17/17 01:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
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1, 5, 6a & b
Then, time permitting 2 or 4.
If they aren't "close" ootb...... It can really eat up dyno time trying to sort them out.
IMO, with limited dyno time available, if you bolt one on and it's just out to lunch...... I'd put that one aside and try a different one.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2388703
10/17/17 12:57 PM
10/17/17 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I made my picks, but I'm in agreement with Andy on this point...... Test the ones you think will be/want to be the best first.
Edit- after hearing Doms comments about the 6a being a little fat..... I guess I'd start out with the known quantity tune of the #1 carb. No point in risking washing the rings down right off the bat.
I'd do the initial run it with the #1 carb, get it all warmed up, lash the valves, make a couple pulls ...... And hopefully that carb has a decent enough fuel curve to establish a baseline without having to do a bunch of tuning on it.
The next carb I'd try would be the 6a.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: davenc]
#2389058
10/17/17 11:41 PM
10/17/17 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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TEST THEM ALL, LET DYNO SORT THEM OUT
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2389125
10/18/17 02:23 AM
10/18/17 02:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 304 Florida
Mark Whitener
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 304
Florida
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#5, 6B will be nearly identical but 5 gets the nod. Scrap the 1.60 you got from Andy for the test. And the Race Q1000 down leg should be a 1.500 venturi, that might be an interesting test against the 1.59 annular.
Mark Whitener [url=www.racingfuelsystems.com[/url]
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: AndyF]
#2389289
10/18/17 01:12 PM
10/18/17 01:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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6a was dialed in pretty good when I ran it. AFR was in the low 13's, made 650 hp on my 470 back before the intake was ported, BSFC was 0.400, Correction Factor was 1.02 so pretty good air. Dyno shop is close to sea level.
My dyno sheets show that we had 88 and 99 jets in it for those pulls. That was the Mark W tune. Worked great from 3500 to 7000 rpm. If you're testing near sea level then I'd use the original Mark W. tune and let it rip. Makes sense that as MOST dyno's do from 3500-7500 and up it may have been ok but trust me, it killed my oil n plugs below that and could NOT even do a burnout. I'm not bagging on anyone or pointing fingers but on the steet where it matters most, it was a pig and I know it was loaned out as well so who knows there. IIRC, it had .080-.090 but not 100% and not near my book..............I see zero reasons to EVER run a 4150 on any motor making good power and have proved it many times even on small-blocks that have picked up a several mph and .010's so me, I'd ditch/sell em all and put a real carb on that puppy........... And .088-.099 jets........that's insane and even 1250's rarely run that size which should tell ya something...........
Last edited by Thumperdart; 10/18/17 01:22 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: Mark Whitener]
#2389333
10/18/17 03:10 PM
10/18/17 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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#5, 6B will be nearly identical but 5 gets the nod. Scrap the 1.60 you got from Andy for the test. I had been thinking along the same carbs to test (the QFT 1.52 downleg & the QFT 1.59 annular) along w/ the baseline BG. The Holley 1.60 annular conversion is sitting on a stand ready to bolt on (except I did notice the linkage is binding for some reason). No reason not to at least throw it on to see how it does... time permitting. And the Race Q1000 down leg should be a 1.500 venturi, that might be an interesting test against the 1.59 annular. That's what I expected, too (i.e., 1.50" venturi). However, I measured mine after you installed the BLP boosters and found it measured 1.52", and later on found a QFT spec sheet that listed the RQ-1000 as 1.52", also. It makes sense, considering their venturi increases from "950" to "1000" is .07", and from "1000" to "1050" is another .07".
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2389337
10/18/17 03:11 PM
10/18/17 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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TEST THEM ALL, LET DYNO SORT THEM OUT This is the carburetor equivalent of "Kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out.", right?
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: davenc]
#2389339
10/18/17 03:13 PM
10/18/17 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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What criteria are you planning to use to evaluate the carbs? Peak numbers, area under the curve, something else?? The evaluation won't be strictly on peak HP & torque #s, but also the fuel curve, amount of air being used, differences in where a particular carb might show better than another, etc. I've seen where two carbs that made virtually the same power on the dyno still ran .2 & 2 MPH differently on the car. Whatever looks like the most worth testing based on the dyno results will still get flogged on the car to prove it.
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2389354
10/18/17 03:32 PM
10/18/17 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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TEST THEM ALL, LET DYNO SORT THEM OUT This is the carburetor equivalent of "Kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out.", right? Yes
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: AndyF]
#2389477
10/18/17 08:07 PM
10/18/17 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Any chance you have more carbs than you need Brad? Why the He11 would you think that??? Oh wait, before you answer that would you like to buy a carb Brad? I don't think I need my QF-1050-AN anymore now that I switched to EFI so I'll make you a good deal on it....... That reminds me... can you provide me w/ your QFT RQ-1050-AN tune so I can duplicate it w/ all the parts I have sitting around to build one myself?
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: BradH]
#2389623
10/19/17 12:05 AM
10/19/17 12:05 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598 NC, USA
davenc
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598
NC, USA
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I've seen where two carbs that made virtually the same power on the dyno still ran .2 & 2 MPH differently on the car. Whatever looks like the most worth testing based on the dyno results will still get flogged on the car to prove it.
And that is what I was wondering. If the criteria isn't clear going into your test, you may pick the wrong carbs to test. To me, it would seem that the best criteria would be area under the curve, in the RPM range encountered during the run; the right carb for a narrow range is likely different than for a wider range. Not knowing any of those details, my vote would be for 1, 4, and 6B.
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Re: Vote for the Carb(s) I test on the Dyno!
[Re: davenc]
#2389718
10/19/17 08:53 AM
10/19/17 08:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I've seen where two carbs that made virtually the same power on the dyno still ran .2 & 2 MPH differently on the car. Whatever looks like the most worth testing based on the dyno results will still get flogged on the car to prove it.
And that is what I was wondering. If the criteria isn't clear going into your test, you may pick the wrong carbs to test. To me, it would seem that the best criteria would be area under the curve, in the RPM range encountered during the run; the right carb for a narrow range is likely different than for a wider range. Not knowing any of those details, my vote would be for 1, 4, and 6B. The on-track differences like I pointed out were due to shift recovery (how quickly the carb adjusts to change in RPM & load) characteristics, which a basic engine dyno doesn't take into account.
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