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#2381853 - 10/04/17 02:36 PM BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar
mcat4321 Offline
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Find the video and check it out . The shop can build big power out of anything

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#2382026 - 10/04/17 05:26 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
RAMM Offline
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I have been watching the Live feeds on FB. What heads are those on BES's 451 BBM? I heard peaks of 670 HP/ 640 tq and they are currently in second place with 2630 pts. Just really curious about his choice of heads. They seemed really disappointed in the interview at the end. J.Rob
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#2382104 - 10/04/17 08:43 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: RAMM]
LA360 Offline
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I've not been able to find it
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#2382117 - 10/04/17 09:00 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: LA360]
LA360 Offline
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#2382124 - 10/04/17 09:09 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
Bad340fish Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
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Yeah Kasses engine was very interesting
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#2382322 - 10/05/17 08:30 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: Bad340fish]
KOS Offline
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Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1405
Originally Posted By Bad340fish
Yeah Kasses engine was very interesting


ya looks like a real simple build....LOL

very curious to learn more about the mopar build can't see it being nowhere as exotic as the ford.

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#2382357 - 10/05/17 10:20 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
WO23Coronet Offline
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Registered: 01/08/08
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Wow, that MEL is impressive! Totally outside the spirit of the rules but I guess he didn’t break any. Interesting head gaskets lol

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#2382370 - 10/05/17 10:53 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
SCATPACK 1 Offline
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Registered: 04/30/05
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Loc: TN
Kasses engine is bogus and not even close to being within the rules. Should have been thrown out.
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#2382384 - 10/05/17 11:17 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: RAMM]
fast68plymouth Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
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Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted By RAMM
I have been watching the Live feeds on FB. What heads are those on BES's 451 BBM? I heard peaks of 670 HP/ 640 tq and they are currently in second place with 2630 pts. Just really curious about his choice of heads. They seemed really disappointed in the interview at the end. J.Rob


640 is a big tq number for a 451, and I realize it's all about making big numbers within the specified rpm band....... But to only end up with 670hp when you had 640tq in the lower revs....... It must have fallen off pretty quickly.
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#2382452 - 10/05/17 12:58 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: fast68plymouth]
mcat4321 Offline
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Registered: 08/04/03
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Originally Posted By RAMM
I have been watching the Live feeds on FB. What heads are those on BES's 451 BBM? I heard peaks of 670 HP/ 640 tq and they are currently in second place with 2630 pts. Just really curious about his choice of heads. They seemed really disappointed in the interview at the end. J.Rob


640 is a big tq number for a 451, and I realize it's all about making big numbers within the specified rpm band....... But to only end up with 670hp when you had 640tq in the lower revs....... It must have fallen off pretty quickly.
the peak numbers mean nothing,that's where most builders go wrong at EMC..im sure you understand the scoring procedure. If peak go was the focus,I'm sure it would be , and did you see the torque curve

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#2382462 - 10/05/17 01:07 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
fast68plymouth Offline
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Quote:
If peak go was the focus,I'm sure it would be , and did you see the torque curve


Actually, I couldn't find any info on it at all.

My point in the previous post was, the tq curve must be falling off pretty quick at some point in the run to only end up with 670hp when there were tq numbers in the 640 area within the tested range.

In other words, I'd think those 640tq numbers must have happened pretty early on in the pull.

If you have a link to where the results of the pulls are posted, I'd like seeing them.
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#2382550 - 10/05/17 03:34 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: fast68plymouth]
mcat4321 Offline
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#2382555 - 10/05/17 03:43 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
fast68plymouth Offline
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I looked over the rules for that class.

Those are pretty impressive numbers when you look at the restrictions.
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#2382557 - 10/05/17 03:46 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
WedgeFED Offline
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Registered: 01/03/16
Posts: 182
Loc: America
On BES website they only offer victor heads for a bbm?

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#2382564 - 10/05/17 03:58 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: fast68plymouth]
B3422W5 Offline
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
I looked over the rules for that class.

Those are pretty impressive numbers when you look at the restrictions.


When that little 318 i had in the white Duster was at enginemasters, they scored it from 2500-6500 rpm
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#2382621 - 10/05/17 05:59 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: WedgeFED]
RAMM Offline
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Not Victors--only allowed stock offset rockers. I'm thinking they are TF's. J.Rob
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#2382731 - 10/05/17 08:56 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
HotRodDave Offline
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I don't see how that MEL fits the letter of the rule at all no matter how hard I squint and plain as day don't fit the spirit of the rule whatsoever.
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#2382771 - 10/05/17 09:59 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: HotRodDave]
WO23Coronet Offline
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[quote=HotRodDave]I don't see how that MEL fits the letter of the rule at all no matter how hard I squint and plain as day don't fit the spirit of the rule whatsoever. [/quote

Very cool build but I agree 100%.

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#2382857 - 10/06/17 07:24 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
BradH Offline
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Originally Posted By mcat4321
Find the video and check it out . The shop can build big power out of anything

Does BES build your engines?

EDIT: After seeing both BES and Kasse's EMC entries over the years, I've come to the opinion that Bischoff is amazing, but Kaase is the brilliant Mad Scientist who can re-think just about any perceived obstacle in ways that would never occur to others.
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#2382929 - 10/06/17 11:01 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
80fbody Offline
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Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Mass.
Is there a detailed write up on this engine build or do we have to wait for Hot Rod to publish? I'm bolting together my 451 finally and would love to see the parts & numbers on this one.
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#2382998 - 10/06/17 01:22 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: BradH]
Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By BradH


EDIT: After seeing both BES and Kasse's EMC entries over the years, I've come to the opinion that Bischoff is amazing, but Kaase is the brilliant Mad Scientist who can re-think just about any perceived obstacle in ways that would never occur to others.


Kaase has to be, he builds Fords.
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#2383011 - 10/06/17 01:59 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: SCATPACK 1]
Twostick Offline
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Registered: 05/20/03
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Originally Posted By SCATPACK 1
Kasses engine is bogus and not even close to being within the rules. Should have been thrown out.


Smokey Yunick would disagree.

It's not a deck plate, it's a REALLY thick head gasket.

That combustion chamber insert is something else too. I'd be curious to see how that is located and sealed.

Kevin

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#2383038 - 10/06/17 02:53 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: Twostick]
WO23Coronet Offline
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Originally Posted By Twostick
Originally Posted By SCATPACK 1
Kasses engine is bogus and not even close to being within the rules. Should have been thrown out.


Smokey Yunick would disagree.

It's not a deck plate, it's a REALLY thick head gasket.

That combustion chamber insert is something else too. I'd be curious to see how that is located and sealed.

Kevin


My guess, is he bored/countersunk the chamber, only enough to properly locate the insert and stay out of water. On the insert, I’d guess it has two threaded holes on the backside. On the valve cover side of the head, two holes would be drilled to match the threaded holes on the insert, install two bolts/cap screws to hold the insert in place. Wouldn’t need to be very big bolts at all, the valves and combustion pressure would keep them put for the most part. After the inserts are in, machine you chambers and valve job.
If you hit water countersinking the chamber, I’d probably try the stuff you get from GM (little pucks) you put in coolant systems to fix small leaks


Edited by WO23Coronet (10/06/17 02:57 PM)

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#2383079 - 10/06/17 05:02 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: HotRodDave]
RAMM Offline
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Registered: 02/07/06
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Kaases' MEL did fit the rules in terms of calling the deck plate his head gasket. However, What was that goop all over the "head gasket"? In years past you would have been asked to show what tube of goop you used--If it said GASKET MAKER anywhere on it then that would be considered the gasket and your deck plate would be ILLEGAL. Now if all the tube said was SEALANT then you were OK. J.Rob
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#2383081 - 10/06/17 05:05 PM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: BradH]
RAMM Offline
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[quote=BradH
EDIT: After seeing both BES and Kasse's EMC entries over the years, I've come to the opinion that Bischoff is amazing, but Kaase is the brilliant Mad Scientist who can re-think just about any perceived obstacle in ways that would never occur to others. [/quote]

My opinion is a little different here. I've always found that Tony seems to do more with less and Kaase's real talent is interpreting rules and working with the holes found in them. Tony seems to be able to build unreal power out of "normal" combos. J.Rob
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#2383765 - 10/08/17 08:27 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: RAMM]
BradH Offline
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Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By RAMM
Originally Posted By BradH

EDIT: After seeing both BES and Kasse's EMC entries over the years, I've come to the opinion that Bischoff is amazing, but Kaase is the brilliant Mad Scientist who can re-think just about any perceived obstacle in ways that would never occur to others.


My opinion is a little different here. I've always found that Tony seems to do more with less and Kaase's real talent is interpreting rules and working with the holes found in them. Tony seems to be able to build unreal power out of "normal" combos. J.Rob

Works for me. I'm just going off what I've read.
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#2384321 - 10/09/17 08:26 AM Re: BES at engine masters getting it done with a bb mopar [Re: mcat4321]
Moparnut426 Offline
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I would expect a change in the rules next year as Kasses engine took them to the outer limits of said "rules"


Cool as hell, but stretching them to say the least
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