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#2360060 - 08/26/17 08:07 AM 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker
mshred Offline
master

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Toronto
I have two 5.7 core motors (pre 07') and a set of brand new Apache cylinder heads in the box and with nitrous prices here out of control, I am considering a move away from my 408" Indy 360-2 sb motor. For one thing, it seems that the valvetrain alone on the G3 is better overall and would require less attention/maintenance then my current solid roller setup.

Apples to apples, a pump gas 5.7 stroker with Apache heads vs. a Indy headed stroker SB, how much of a difference is there? Ive never tried to optimize my current setup for all motor performance, but if i can run consistent 9.90 or faster on straight motor at 3300lbs on pump gas I would be extremely happy. Pump gas only because it is a street car.

So what say you guys? Worth switching over to the 5.7 stuff I have or just make a few changes to my current setup to try and get there?

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#2360182 - 08/26/17 01:52 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Sellersville Pa
I all about the G3 stuff now a days, but pump gas 9.90s I think is just outside of the G3s right now.Maybe something thing in the +400 CI range would get there. Stock rockers are good to 7k rpm .There are a few guys here running in that 9.90 range with much better insight. Apache heads have some great flow potential out of the box.
_________________________
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2003 Ram st
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building
2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.

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#2360273 - 08/26/17 05:29 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4288
Loc: Nebraska
Build a 392 out of it, port the heads and run a .620 ish 250@.050 ish on a 110 cam spinning to 72-7300 and you're gonna be right in there.
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#2360570 - 08/27/17 11:41 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
sixpackgut Online   content
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 9005
Loc: Charleston
Dustin is right at the 9.90 mark at that weight but has 13-1 comp on e85

Im on pump gas but have more cubes and a little lighter
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2361112 - 08/28/17 10:54 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: sixpackgut]
mshred Offline
master

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
I all about the G3 stuff now a days, but pump gas 9.90s I think is just outside of the G3s right now.Maybe something thing in the +400 CI range would get there. Stock rockers are good to 7k rpm .There are a few guys here running in that 9.90 range with much better insight. Apache heads have some great flow potential out of the box.


I am hoping the Apaches will be the key to getting me the power I need since they are quite a good flowing head

Originally Posted By 72Swinger
Build a 392 out of it, port the heads and run a .620 ish 250@.050 ish on a 110 cam spinning to 72-7300 and you're gonna be right in there.


Stock rockers with an aftermarket crank and say the 6.1 oil pump should be good at those rpms right? How big can a 5.7 block go stroked and bored- is the 392 the safe reliable limit or is 400+ cubes doable?

Originally Posted By sixpackgut
Dustin is right at the 9.90 mark at that weight but has 13-1 comp on e85

Im on pump gas but have more cubes and a little lighter


Yes I looked at Dustins build thread, very impressive....I couldn't find yours though, did you have one or a link to the initial build? I need to stay pump gas (94 octane)

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#2361119 - 08/28/17 11:02 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Sellersville Pa
User name Steff has a good build also.

on fastmopar dot com, there is some real good info in the G3 section
_________________________
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda don't always acknowledge truth

2003 Ram st
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building
2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.

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#2361162 - 08/28/17 12:33 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
HotRodDave Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 9474
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
392 is about the safe reasonable limit on a 5.7 block. Sure some have gone bigger but you are gonna start getting puny rod/stroke ratios, too short of pistons, too thin of bores or something.

A 392 apache short block can be had brand new from the dealer machined, balanced, and assembled for about the same price as a 392 stroker kit for a 5.7 then you got to machine your block and assemble and possibly balance and you get a bigger bore to help unshroud the valves, they are very shrouded on a 5.7 bore with apache heads.
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#2361243 - 08/28/17 03:54 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: HotRodDave]
mshred Offline
master

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By HotRodDave
392 is about the safe reasonable limit on a 5.7 block. Sure some have gone bigger but you are gonna start getting puny rod/stroke ratios, too short of pistons, too thin of bores or something.

A 392 apache short block can be had brand new from the dealer machined, balanced, and assembled for about the same price as a 392 stroker kit for a 5.7 then you got to machine your block and assemble and possibly balance and you get a bigger bore to help unshroud the valves, they are very shrouded on a 5.7 bore with apache heads.


Is there a dealer part # for the short block? Is the bottom end of an apache shortlbock top quality (forged crank and NOT powdered metal rods) and free of the high rpm oiling issues?

This would be an all motor deal and I saw some 440+ short blocks by some of the hemi shops based on the 6.4 block which would seem like a great way to get where I want but wondering if there's better options out there?

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#2361286 - 08/28/17 05:14 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
Triple Threat Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6163
Loc: Renton Washington
As much as I'd like to help you spend your money, I think you should use what you have and try and get some more out of it. I know its been a few years since you've run the green beast but I remember thinking it has more in it with more tuning.

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to go bottom 10's or even high 9's with an Indy headed 408.

If you're set on making the switch, you should buy Ray's short block.


Edited by Triple Threat (08/28/17 05:15 PM)
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392" G3 Hemi
1.37, 6.17@111, 9.74@136.9

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#2361310 - 08/28/17 05:43 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: Triple Threat]
mshred Offline
master

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By Triple Threat
As much as I'd like to help you spend your money, I think you should use what you have and try and get some more out of it. I know its been a few years since you've run the green beast but I remember thinking it has more in it with more tuning.

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to go bottom 10's or even high 9's with an Indy headed 408.

If you're set on making the switch, you should buy Ray's short block.


Thanks for the kind words Dustin! Planning to get out to the track for the first time this week in 2 years and im super excited! The car is n/t but already on a small hit its been quicker then mentioned and I had only just started getting it to work...but my reason for thinking of the switch is the crazy nitrous prices here- at 13-16$ a pound its gotten crazy. I have thought about a rebuild for n/a with this LA motor, but I would love to get away from a hard blocked solid roller motor if i am going to only run n/a and continue to street drice like i do, and the g3 seems like the ticket, especially since i have two 5.7 cores and a set of NIB apache heads.

Its still all just ideas at this point but id like to come out rockin next year with something solid whether i freshen what i have or go g3.

I browse the classifieds here but havent seen Rays short from what I can recall

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#2361456 - 08/28/17 09:37 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
sixpackgut Online   content
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 9005
Loc: Charleston
My short block is a 428. -13cc dish diamonds. One extra piston. K1 rotating assembly. 4.09 bore x4.08. Stock lifters, 6.1 timing chain, 6.1 oil pump. Cam is .600/254. Milodon pan/ pickup and windage tray. I will also include a new sfi car balancer.

May have been Dram's(if you remember him) last engines before he got sick. It's been thru 2 drag weeks

I use the truck balancer

With Apache heads comp will be 10-1. Eagles 11-1


Edited by sixpackgut (08/28/17 09:40 PM)
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2363402 - 09/01/17 10:25 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: sixpackgut]
mshred Offline
master

Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By sixpackgut
My short block is a 428. -13cc dish diamonds. One extra piston. K1 rotating assembly. 4.09 bore x4.08. Stock lifters, 6.1 timing chain, 6.1 oil pump. Cam is .600/254. Milodon pan/ pickup and windage tray. I will also include a new sfi car balancer.

May have been Dram's(if you remember him) last engines before he got sick. It's been thru 2 drag weeks

I use the truck balancer

With Apache heads comp will be 10-1. Eagles 11-1


Yes, I remember Dram (rip). So that is 6.1 based then I assume? Send me a pm with what you are looking for. I'd need to sell my current setup first to have the spending money but it doesn't hurt to talk 👍

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#2373187 - 09/19/17 08:06 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8104
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Have the 5.7 blocks sonic checked to see what they will take for an overbore. I have heard of some thick enough to go 4.06!
As far as valve shrouding by running Apache heads on a 5.7, the pinch spot next to the cylinder wall is the weakest flowing portion of the port. On top of that the valves move away from the cylinderwall as they lift off the seat. Lastly, a slight notch could be ground into the block ala old school wedge engines, if you like to worry about it.


Edited by gregsdart (09/19/17 08:07 AM)
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528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
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#2373790 - 09/20/17 06:35 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Block 53021319AC...
earlier this year I had one brought to me that was bored to 4.055,that was built as a "6.1" another I had bored to 4.055 that was stroked and built as a 426. the 3rd AC block I have here that was bored 4.055 is a back up for my own build.
the 4th AC block I have here is bored to 4.03, for my niece.
Block 53021319AG....I have 2 here that I wouldn't take over 3.96 and still feel safe. I have another 4 that I haven't sonic checked yet.
Block53021319CB, have 2 and neither has been sonic checked.

stock 3.917 bore and oversized (2.18) Intake valve Apache, needs a bore notch.
STD Apache Intake Valve , and the 3.917 bore, could use some notching if your going gonzo power build.
_________________________
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda don't always acknowledge truth

2003 Ram st
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building
2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 7.0 short block under those eagle heads.

Top
#2373927 - 09/20/17 01:16 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: ric3xrt]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3859
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
Block 53021319AC...
earlier this year I had one brought to me that was bored to 4.055,that was built as a "6.1" another I had bored to 4.055 that was stroked and built as a 426. the 3rd AC block I have here that was bored 4.055 is a back up for my own build.
the 4th AC block I have here is bored to 4.03, for my niece.
Block 53021319AG....I have 2 here that I wouldn't take over 3.96 and still feel safe. I have another 4 that I haven't sonic checked yet.
Block53021319CB, have 2 and neither has been sonic checked.

stock 3.917 bore and oversized (2.18) Intake valve Apache, needs a bore notch.
STD Apache Intake Valve , and the 3.917 bore, could use some notching if your going gonzo power build.


What years of engines do those part numbers correspond to?

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#2374040 - 09/20/17 05:03 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: mshred]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2481
Loc: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By mshred
Originally Posted By Triple Threat
As much as I'd like to help you spend your money, I think you should use what you have and try and get some more out of it. I know its been a few years since you've run the green beast but I remember thinking it has more in it with more tuning.

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to go bottom 10's or even high 9's with an Indy headed 408.

If you're set on making the switch, you should buy Ray's short block.


Thanks for the kind words Dustin! Planning to get out to the track for the first time this week in 2 years and im super excited! The car is n/t but already on a small hit its been quicker then mentioned and I had only just started getting it to work...but my reason for thinking of the switch is the crazy nitrous prices here- at 13-16$ a pound its gotten crazy. I have thought about a rebuild for n/a with this LA motor, but I would love to get away from a hard blocked solid roller motor if i am going to only run n/a and continue to street drice like i do, and the g3 seems like the ticket, especially since i have two 5.7 cores and a set of NIB apache heads.

Its still all just ideas at this point but id like to come out rockin next year with something solid whether i freshen what i have or go g3.

I browse the classifieds here but havent seen Rays short from what I can recall



My W9 is for sale !!!! LOL
436 cid hydraulic roller 11.5 to 1
4.04 bore
664hp and 630 tq
Matt

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#2374910 - 09/22/17 08:04 AM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: WO23Coronet]
ric3xrt Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Sellersville Pa
[/quote]

What years of engines do those part numbers correspond to? [/quote]

Not sure doesn't seam to be a rhythm or reason to it.

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#2375058 - 09/22/17 01:02 PM Re: 5.7 Apache headed pump gas stroker [Re: ric3xrt]
tobnHisglory Offline
member

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 190
Loc: Chester, VA
When sonic checking, what are the minimums you all consider safe and which places on the cylinder walls are you checking?
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tobnHisglory2000@aol.com
Former Mopars: 73 Charger - 440/727, 68 D200 Camper Special 383/727, 67 Satellite, 71 Superbee, 73 RoadRunner,2009 Ram Quad Cab Hemi 4x4
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