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Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck #2367144
09/07/17 07:38 PM
09/07/17 07:38 PM
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Indiana
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68_661charger Offline OP
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77 Dodge D100. Manual brakes. New master cylinder 1 inch bore, new rubber hoses, remanned calipers, turned rotors, semi metallic pads. In the rear new metal and rubber brake lines, wheel cylinders. Ive bled the brakes several times. I can plan to stop the truck with notice but i don't think its good enough for an emergency stop. Put it this way I dont think I could lock the brakes up on a wet road. Yeah I know, why would I want to? I just feel the brakes should grab. Ive had 4 wheel drums stop better than this. Would switching to a power booster make them stronger? Maybe a smaller bore master? Where to find?

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2367148
09/07/17 07:51 PM
09/07/17 07:51 PM
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On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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What was the bore size of the original master cylinder?


Tom

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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2367151
09/07/17 07:58 PM
09/07/17 07:58 PM
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Washington State
70Duster440 Offline
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I have a 1-1/32" manual on my Duster that I would consider borderline and would be tough to lock up. When we built my sons BB '75 D100 we did away with the power brakes and installed a 15/16" mc (from Dr. Diff). It feels pretty good.

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2367164
09/07/17 09:02 PM
09/07/17 09:02 PM
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grancuda Offline
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What brand rubber brake hoses did you get?


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Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2367172
09/07/17 09:16 PM
09/07/17 09:16 PM
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Indiana
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68_661charger Offline OP
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The master I took off was an inch as well but it drove the same slightly worse. I belive the rubber hoses are Dormans and Ive read about smaller bore masters but I was unsure of the gain from a 1/16? An 1/8th at most?

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2367233
09/07/17 11:14 PM
09/07/17 11:14 PM
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Freeport IL USA
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I think I would check to be sure the calipers can float on the mounting brackets like they are suppose to. As this stuff is getting older, the hard parts are showing up with wear we have not had to look at before. For instance, if the ears the front pad sit on have a little dip in them, the pads get hung up in the dip and won't move freely like they should. The result is poor brakes.

The same deal with the drum backing plates. The little raised pads the brake shoes sit against are suppose to be flat and smooth. Any roughness or wear will hang up the shoes from moving like they are suppose to, resulting in poor brakes.

I'm seeing a lot more brake issues then we ever saw before. I'm sure some of those issues are related to the off shore parts we seem to be stuck with, but a lot of issues are with older vehicles. I suspect we are beginning to see the always reused brackets and backing plates that are beginning to have wear we have never had to look at in the past.

The last Dakota I did (91 model year) had groves where the front brake pads sat that I ground clean, welded back up and sanded smooth, and the rear drum backing plated had groves where the shoes sat. I also ground them off, welded them up and ground them flat. The brakes on that Dakota are the best they have been since I've owned the truck.

Dodge put that truck together in 77 and I suspect the brakes were fine then. If the parts you have put on are functioning (holding fluid and have a solid pedal), its time to look at what else may need to be fixed before you start swapping out masters that may or may not overcome the worn parts. Gene

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2367294
09/08/17 01:39 AM
09/08/17 01:39 AM
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68_661charger Offline OP
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Ill check for the wear marks on the caliper adapter next...

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2368460
09/10/17 08:42 PM
09/10/17 08:42 PM
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ahy Offline
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Some of the semi-mettalic pads/shoes take quite a bit of pressure to work.

The brakes might work better with low cost organic pads. Worth a try I think.

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: ahy] #2368533
09/10/17 10:32 PM
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I've read about seating the pads and shoes by getting up some speed and then jamming the break pedal hard to get them seated. Might help. shruggy
Another thought, I once put new discs & pads on and forgot to clean the oil off the discs first with brake cleaner. Those suckers wouldn't stop on a 20 dollar bill, let alone a dime. I cleaned the discs and put new pads on and it stopped on that dime and gave 9 cents change.
It was on my '78 D-100.


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Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2368550
09/10/17 11:20 PM
09/10/17 11:20 PM
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Indiana
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68_661charger Offline OP
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I've been wondering if organic would work better than semi-metallic? On the other hand I put on the fresh calipers with the old pads and un-turned rotors and old master cylinder and the truck basically stops the same as it does now with all the new stuff... I've also wondered if the original manual master was different from the two I've had? or try what poorboy suggested with the dimples in the adapter brackets. I've driven it a fair amount around the neighborhood practicing stops but I've yet to really get up to speed. Everything has been clean clean clean.

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2368855
09/11/17 03:17 PM
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I think the semi metallic would stop better.
They just wear things down faster.
That's due to the small bits of metal in them.
Might have to go back and check your hydraulics,
as many have suggested above.


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Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2369276
09/12/17 09:55 AM
09/12/17 09:55 AM
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yella71 Offline
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Metalic pads need a lot of heat (friction ) to work . without power assist theres no way to put enough pressure on them to work right . put a power booster on the truck or get the right pads. Not sure if you can get "organic" pads any more. Your pads are too hard.


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Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2370234
09/13/17 06:08 PM
09/13/17 06:08 PM
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Put on a set of cheapie organic pads and that did the trick. Truck stops like I feel it should. The semi-metallics might be for power brakes . Just glad its over. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: 68_661charger] #2370260
09/13/17 06:43 PM
09/13/17 06:43 PM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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I have been using some Performance Friction semi metallic pads on F450 and F550 trucks at work. They are there heavy duty top of the line pad for extreme service I was told when I shopped for them. Came from Oreillys. I am not impressed with the performance.

I test drove one at work just today with less than half a load on it after a repair and thought, woo these brakes suck. They worked but just did not feel good and I am doubting if they could lock up. You know what I mean?

The brakes are not that old and it got new rotors and pads when I did the brakes. They are power brakes.
I think the pads are more prone to glazing over and just today I was thinking to myself I was going to try a different pad and not metallic.

Thanks for letting us know what the final out come was. Glad you got it fixed.


Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: Challenger 1] #2370269
09/13/17 06:55 PM
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Manual brakes may take more effort to use.
They should not apply less pressure. shruggy
I myself prefer manual.
Brakes and steering.
Wouldn't have thought the pads themselves were the issue.
Good info for future use.
Also glad you got it figured out. up


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Re: Advice, 77 Dodge brakes suck [Re: bboogieart] #2371690
09/16/17 01:43 PM
09/16/17 01:43 PM
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ahy Offline
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Glad it is sorted out.







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