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#2372590 - 09/18/17 08:27 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2462
Loc: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By 408strokerdart
Been a while since I have posted anything significant. My car has been down for about two years now ever since blowing up my W8 engine due to oil pump failure. I bought a 572 wedge and invested a small fortune to make it how I wanted it just to find out it would not fit into my car (tried to figure out how to make it fit, but nothing makes sense).

Forward to a couple of months ago when I was at the Monster Mopar race at Norwalk. It occurred to me that these Gen 3 platform motors perform pretty good and seem very reliable. This is when I finally came across Triple Threats post on his bracket build. I have talked with Dustin and he has been a big help in the decisions I have made to this point. My goal was only to build something that would put my car in the 9.80 to 10.0 range and be something I could put 160 passes per year with almost no maintenance.

So, here is what I have at this point after accumulating parts for only 2 months.

New 6.1 Block, .005 over 4.060 bore
Molinar 4.050 stroke crank/6.125 Molinar rod
Diamond Custom pistons with 15cc domes
Factory 6.4 heads (ported by Ray Meyers)
Upgraded springs and retainers
Custom Comp Hyd Roller, same grind as Dustins
Manley timing set
Stock Rocker System
Stock 06 Coil Packs
Stock Valve Covers
Custom 1 7/8 to 2" stainless step headers

Now here is where it differs from Dustins build...
Ported and highly modified 6.1 intake (welded up and cut for 92mm front opening.
Holley Sniper 92mm LS throttle body
Holley 80 lb/hr injectors
Complete Holley EFI HP control system and harnesses

I'm going to put a stock flat hood back on my car as well.

My only problem is that my original ET goals will be blown away. I will probably have problems keeping my 2800 lb car out of the 9.30's


Sorry to hear about your W8!

WELCOME to the next generation!!
Nice part selection and can't wait to see it built.
I only have one concern and this is me talking and I have no specific proof or anything like that. My cup is always half full and I thought I would mention this.
Check that 6.1 block. I've read and heard of some garbage ones out there. Just like the R3, some good casting, some not.
Matt

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#2372653 - 09/18/17 10:14 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8896
Loc: Charleston
Looking foward to seeing how this turns out. Obviously I have my reservations about using the stock intake but I also don't doubt Brian will have it running hard


Edited by sixpackgut (09/18/17 10:14 AM)
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2372690 - 09/18/17 11:23 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: sixpackgut]
408strokerdart Offline
master

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 3430
Loc: Out West
Originally Posted By sixpackgut
Looking foward to seeing how this turns out. Obviously I have my reservations about using the stock intake but I also don't doubt Brian will have it running hard


If the stock intake doesn't work, I know a guy that can design and build a complete sheet metal version that will work for sure.
_________________________

5.35 @ 128 1/8th, new 572" bullet on methanol just waiting to get a new best...

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#2372691 - 09/18/17 11:25 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: Bad340fish]
408strokerdart Offline
master

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 3430
Loc: Out West
Originally Posted By Bad340fish
What made you choose the holley HP over the Dominator or the MS3 Gold Box?

The biggest thing you would gain from either one of those over the HP is inputs and outputs, I don't think the HP has much inputs for data logging?


Just cost compared to the Dominator. The HP will work with my existing Racepak so I already log everything I need to.
_________________________

5.35 @ 128 1/8th, new 572" bullet on methanol just waiting to get a new best...

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#2372725 - 09/18/17 12:22 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
Triple Threat Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6136
Loc: Renton Washington
I like many others am looking forward to seeing this run.

If I can go 9.90's at 3400# with a very basic bracket car you should be much quicker.
_________________________
-Dustin
392" G3 Hemi
1.37, 6.17@111, 9.74@136.9

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#2372775 - 09/18/17 01:43 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
Quickrunner Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 434
Loc: Indianapolis In. usa
Eddlebrock has a new Gen3 intake that's supposed to be a notch better than the 6.1 intake.
_________________________
05 Ram 1500 Daytona package
71 Demon Gen3 hemi drag radial project
2004 Jeep Liberty
09 Challenger R/T 6spd

Missin' my 9 second 70 runner!

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#2372823 - 09/18/17 02:46 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: Quickrunner]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8896
Loc: Charleston
Originally Posted By Quickrunner
Eddlebrock has a new Gen3 intake that's supposed to be a notch better than the 6.1 intake.


From what Im gathering on that is that people are not picking up with the intake. Any serious guy probably had a ported 6.1 intake and they flow very well when ported. Next is the runner lenght and I think they are about the same so no real advantage
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#2372846 - 09/18/17 03:26 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
ric3xrt Offline
mopar

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Sellersville Pa
What is the 6.1 intake's runner length?

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#2372864 - 09/18/17 03:51 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3782
Loc: Canada
Can you shorten a 6.1's runner length, ala the 5.9 keg intake?

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#2373133 - 09/19/17 01:12 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: Triple Threat]
cudadoug Offline
master

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 2960
Loc: Between a rock & a hard place
Originally Posted By Triple Threat
I like many others am looking forward to seeing this run.

If I can go 9.90's at 3400# with a very basic bracket car you should be much quicker.


Yep, me too!

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#2373176 - 09/19/17 07:31 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
Bad340fish Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5269
Loc: Tulsa OK
Originally Posted By 408strokerdart
Originally Posted By Bad340fish
What made you choose the holley HP over the Dominator or the MS3 Gold Box?

The biggest thing you would gain from either one of those over the HP is inputs and outputs, I don't think the HP has much inputs for data logging?


Just cost compared to the Dominator. The HP will work with my existing Racepak so I already log everything I need to.


After I posted that I figured you probably had a logger on board already. Sounds like a fun and fast project!
_________________________
68 Barracuda Formula S 340

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#2373243 - 09/19/17 10:10 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: sixpackgut]
Quickrunner Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 434
Loc: Indianapolis In. usa
Originally Posted By sixpackgut
Originally Posted By Quickrunner
Eddlebrock has a new Gen3 intake that's supposed to be a notch better than the 6.1 intake.


From what Im gathering on that is that people are not picking up with the intake. Any serious guy probably had a ported 6.1 intake and they flow very well when ported. Next is the runner lenght and I think they are about the same so no real advantage


I just read somewhere that the design was more aimed at spinning things blowing air into the front of it, only slight like 20HP gain over a 6.1 intake in NA format. And that's probably a marketing number. I did look at it at PRI and it is a very nice piece considering what used 6.1's go for and this is a nice brand new casting.
_________________________
05 Ram 1500 Daytona package
71 Demon Gen3 hemi drag radial project
2004 Jeep Liberty
09 Challenger R/T 6spd

Missin' my 9 second 70 runner!

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#2373300 - 09/19/17 12:05 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: Quickrunner]
408strokerdart Offline
master

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 3430
Loc: Out West
Originally Posted By Quickrunner
Originally Posted By sixpackgut
Originally Posted By Quickrunner
Eddlebrock has a new Gen3 intake that's supposed to be a notch better than the 6.1 intake.


From what Im gathering on that is that people are not picking up with the intake. Any serious guy probably had a ported 6.1 intake and they flow very well when ported. Next is the runner lenght and I think they are about the same so no real advantage


I just read somewhere that the design was more aimed at spinning things blowing air into the front of it, only slight like 20HP gain over a 6.1 intake in NA format. And that's probably a marketing number. I did look at it at PRI and it is a very nice piece considering what used 6.1's go for and this is a nice brand new casting.


This is the same thing that I gathered from it. I think it will be about the same as a ported 6.1. I'm already tricking out my 6.1 manifold and I will post pictures after I'm further along. It is stuff that hasn't been done before though.

I have learned though that you can't even talk with these LX forum guys. They are mostly guys that have others do their stuff and just like bolt on items. Forget anything custom.....blows their minds.
_________________________

5.35 @ 128 1/8th, new 572" bullet on methanol just waiting to get a new best...

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#2373343 - 09/19/17 01:21 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
Quickrunner Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 434
Loc: Indianapolis In. usa


I have learned though that you can't even talk with these LX forum guys. They are mostly guys that have others do their stuff and just like bolt on items. Forget anything custom.....blows their minds. [/quote]

Same vibe I get over there, they all have a "builder" of choice and not many self builders or fabricators on there.

As far as your the HP vs Dominator choice, I am looking into that for my Demon as well and noticed the HP only has provisions for single O2 and the Dominator is setup for dual. Would you not want one in each bank?? I am not versed in efi at all yet and learning what I can before I pull the trigger on any system.
_________________________
05 Ram 1500 Daytona package
71 Demon Gen3 hemi drag radial project
2004 Jeep Liberty
09 Challenger R/T 6spd

Missin' my 9 second 70 runner!

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#2373389 - 09/19/17 02:16 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: Quickrunner]
408strokerdart Offline
master

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 3430
Loc: Out West
Originally Posted By Quickrunner


I have learned though that you can't even talk with these LX forum guys. They are mostly guys that have others do their stuff and just like bolt on items. Forget anything custom.....blows their minds.


Same vibe I get over there, they all have a "builder" of choice and not many self builders or fabricators on there.

As far as your the HP vs Dominator choice, I am looking into that for my Demon as well and noticed the HP only has provisions for single O2 and the Dominator is setup for dual. Would you not want one in each bank?? I am not versed in efi at all yet and learning what I can before I pull the trigger on any system. [/quote]

You are correct on that. I'm not sure I need both. I might go Dominator at the last minute if I find some savings somewhere else. It's at least $700 more than the HP IIRC.
_________________________

5.35 @ 128 1/8th, new 572" bullet on methanol just waiting to get a new best...

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#2373482 - 09/19/17 05:12 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3782
Loc: Canada
That's one of the negatives when dealing with newer stuff. A lot of buyers and not builders (not slagging that at all, it comes with the territory for any newer platform). I just pick and choose which threads I get involved in, mostly lurking

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#2373791 - 09/20/17 06:40 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: Quickrunner]
ric3xrt Offline
mopar

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Sellersville Pa
Originally Posted By Quickrunner


I have learned though that you can't even talk with these LX forum guys. They are mostly guys that have others do their stuff and just like bolt on items. Forget anything custom.....blows their minds.


Same vibe I get over there, they all have a "builder" of choice and not many self builders or fabricators on there.

[/quote]

I think it's a generational thing, most of those guys who are heavy into the LX platform, are born after 74ish, there fathers most likely didn't work on their cars, had to have the Dealer do it, because of the complicated messes that were being produced by the auto manufacture's at that time ....just my social $02 worth.


Edited by ric3xrt (09/20/17 06:53 AM)

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#2373794 - 09/20/17 06:52 AM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
ric3xrt Offline
mopar

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Sellersville Pa
I'm already tricking out my 6.1 manifold and I will post pictures after I'm further along. It is stuff that hasn't been done before though.




It's be good to see someone with some experience attack this manifold with some out of the box thinking, God knows I've seen some really off the wall dumb crap done to these.

Last one was , cut the bottom of the port flange weld in 6 inches of alum tube and lengthen the runner.
One guy thought he was going to treat the poor thing like it was an old Magnum Keg, cut the thing open removed almost all of the runner walls and plenum area, leaving 3 inches runner just above the port flange.

My favorite lately is the 03-06 Porsche Cayenne 4.5L Intake swap.
_________________________
Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda don't always acknowledge truth

1975 D-code D100
1975 D-code Ramcharger
1977 D-code Warlock
1977 D-Code D100
1978 D-code Mid Nite Express
1978 Lil Red
1979 Lil Red
2004 Rumble Bee
2005 Ram GTX
Any info on these trucks is greatly appreciated
2005 Ram 1500 (drag truck in building
2014 1500 tradesman(shhhh, it's hiding a 6.4 short block under those eagle heads.

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#2373936 - 09/20/17 01:31 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: ric3xrt]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3782
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By ric3xrt
I'm already tricking out my 6.1 manifold and I will post pictures after I'm further along. It is stuff that hasn't been done before though.




It's be good to see someone with some experience attack this manifold with some out of the box thinking, God knows I've seen some really off the wall dumb crap done to these.

Last one was , cut the bottom of the port flange weld in 6 inches of alum tube and lengthen the runner.
One guy thought he was going to treat the poor thing like it was an old Magnum Keg, cut the thing open removed almost all of the runner walls and plenum area, leaving 3 inches runner just above the port flange.

My favorite lately is the 03-06 Porsche Cayenne 4.5L Intake swap.



What would you do to a 6.1 intake to improve it? I mentioned earlier in the thread about shortening the runners like what guys do to the 5.2/5.9 keg intakes. Obviously whacking it down to 3" was probably abit extreme lol, but maybe shortening them to the length of what a Drag Pack intake has would bump up its rpm band?

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#2374189 - 09/20/17 08:52 PM Re: Bracket Gen 3 Build [Re: 408strokerdart]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8896
Loc: Charleston
I dont believe you can shorten the runners. The setion between the runner where you would shorten it is hollow for the idle circuit maybe. Not sure about that

Brain, i have a friend. Get me the holley part #s and Ill get you prices. There are 2 prices, on your own or you can call with questions as much as you want
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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